HDMI handshake issue

[moreira85]

Bedroom set up I have a Hisense TV, Amazon fire cube, and Yamaha rx a770.
if I watch with Hisense setting in hdmi 2.0 normal mode everything works appropriate W no issues.
When I change the Hisense to Enhanced HDMI mode I get “weak or signal“ on the screen with no picture. in order to get the picture back I have to toggle the setting back to normal hdmi 2.0 On the tv.

Now if I unplug the TV from the wall outlet and plug it back in to reset it the TV then I am now able to select Enhanced hdmi format and it works with a nice enhanced video output. So all is good now right?
THE ISSUE IS WHEN I AM DONE WATCHING TV AND POWER ALL THE DEVICES OFF and come back a few hours later and power them back on it says “weak or no signal” And I have to go back to hdmi 2.0 standard mode in the tv to get a picture again.
ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS?
The picture is much better in enhanced and I’m trying to figure this bug out.
I have a similar set up in the basement w a Hisense TV also but don’t have this issue with it.

 

[Trebdp83]

Make sure you are using at least Premium Certified(18gbps) HDMI cables. High Speed(10gbps) HDMI cables will not cut it with 4K RGB/YCbCr 4:4:4 @60Hz signals.

The Yamaha supports HDCP 2.2 only on HDMI ports 1-3. Any devices capable of 4K HDR output should be connected to one of those ports. The ports should be set to Mode 1, not Mode 2 for optimal output.

If the device is connected directly to the TV, the cable must still be at least of the Premium certified variety to avoid problems with 4K HDR @60hz signals.

The “Enhanced” mode in the TV is just the Hisense designation for HDCP 2.2 compliant device mode allowing 4K HDR. Other manufacturers use it as well while others still use their own.

 

[moreira85]

Ok thank you. I don’t really have an option with cables right now because I have it run through the walls so for now it’s what I have to deal with. I am getting 4k on Netflix but will have to check if it’s at 30 or 60hz frame rate.
what do you mean the ports should be set to Mode 1?

 

[Trebdp83]

The Yamaha has different settings for HDMI. Mode 1 is the “Enhanced” setting and Mode 2 the “Standard” setting.

If the cable is in the wall, the length of it may be the issue even if it is a Premium Certified cable.

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok thank you. I don’t really have an option with cables right now because I have it run through the walls so for now it’s what I have to deal with. I am getting 4k on Netflix but will have to check if it’s at 30 or 60hz frame rate.
what do you mean the ports should be set to Mode 1?

Did you run your cables in conduit? If not you made a bad mistake. I bet you need a hybrid cable with the video fibre optic and the audio copper, like cables from Ruipro.

 

[moreira85]

The Yamaha has different settings for HDMI. Mode 1 is the “Enhanced” setting and Mode 2 the “Standard” setting.

If the cable is in the wall, the length of it may be the issue even if it is a Premium Certified cable.

‘thank you very helpful post! I checked and the Yamaha is in mode 1. i bypassed the receiver and hooked up the fire cube directly to the tv and problemed solved. I can switch to hdmi enhanced w no problem.
so I’m assuming it’s a receiver issue setting?

I guess I can always leave it this way and run ARC back to the receiver If I can’t find the culprit.
I can also troubleshoot the hdmi cable that’s in the wall to check to see if it’s that.

 

[Trebdp83]

What is the model of Fire Cube? Gen 3? I assumed that bypassing the receiver meant using a different cable as well. Is that the case?

 

[moreira85]

Yes I used a different cable. I’ll check the fire cube version soon. But I can use the original cable in the wall and test that too by bypassing receiver also. But I’ve had enough of dealing with it today. I’ll check back soon.

 

[moreira85]

I don’t why this is so complicated. I know way more about this than the average person and it’s still a challenge. I didn’t even know my living room receiver was playing in port mode 2 in advanced setting until today!

 

[moreira85]

What is the model of Fire Cube? Gen 3? I assumed that bypassing the receiver meant using a different cable as well. Is that the case?

It’s a second gen fire cube

 

[Trebdp83]

The Fire Cube should have a “Best Available” audio output setting. This will output multichannel PCM and will exceed the bandwidth limits of ARC when connected directly to the TV. Set it for DD+ output and the signal will fit within the ARC spec.

Based on the information, I am guessing the in-wall cable is the culprit.

 

[moreira85]

The Fire Cube should have a “Best Available” audio output setting. This will output multichannel PCM and will exceed the bandwidth limits of ARC when connected directly to the TV. Set it for DD+ output and the signal will fit within the ARC spec.

Based on the information, I am guessing the in-wall cable is the culprit.

well you are correct I was able to troubleshoot this down to the wire running through the wall. Kind of surprised because it is a mono price cable but it’s also a long run. This wire runs from the tv up the wall across the attic and into the receiver. I unplugged it at the receiver and hooked it directly to the fire cube and low and behold no signal in enhanced mode. Occasionally I was able to get it to work in enhanced mode but it is limited to 1080x1920, it also would cut out and lose signal sometimes too when in enhance.


So for the time being I set it back to the original way I had it running the cube through the receiver then the long mono price cable through the attic and setting the TV in Standard 2.0. In this set up I am getting 3840x2160 @60hz But it’s not in enhanced hdmi mode if that even means anything. So for the time being I’ll keep it like this until I get a new cable and venture up to the attic to replace this one In the wall.

 

[moreira85]

I’ve also done extensive research on this topic online in enhanced mode w Hisense TVs. Many many people report the same exact issues with “weak no signal”. Seems as though these Hisense tvs are very finicky to certain hdmi cables and cable lengths. Some Reports I read have expensive 2.1 high speed hdmi cable connected and get “week or no signal” them they will swap it out with a cheap no name cable and it works. I still think the Hissense could be to blame here.

 

[TLS Guy]

I’ve also done extensive research on this topic online in enhanced mode w Hisense TVs. Many many people report the same exact issues with “weak no signal”. Seems as though these Hisense tvs are very finicky to certain hdmi cables and cable lengths. Some Reports I read have expensive 2.1 high speed hdmi cable connected and get “week or no signal” them they will swap it out with a cheap no name cable and it works. I still think the Hissense could be to blame here.

No all devices are now. If you have an HDMI cable longer than 12 feet then you need an active hybrid HDMI cable powered by a voltage inserter and not the HDMI port.
Your long passive cable is now useless and will be increasingly useless. I have a 32 ft run in conduit which is a hybrid cable powered by a voltage inserter and have no issues, which I would have had aplenty if I had installed a passive cable. It has worked for over five years now with zero issues. You need to change that cable and replace with no hassle as technology changes. You should never place any audio cable that is hard to change not in conduit. This is a golden rule, no exceptions.

 

[moreira85]

Oh it’s def longer than 12 feet. I’m guessing it’s a 40 footer maybe

 

[TLS Guy]

Oh it’s def longer than 12 feet. I’m guessing it’s a 40 footer maybe

That is your problem. To solve your problem you need to dispose of that cable, place conduit and pass a hybrid HDMI cable though it. These cables are directional, as the coding sending unit needs to be at the receiver or pre/pro and the decoding end at the TV. The audio is bidirectional as it goes via copper, so eARC works fine. The video goes via the fibre optic part of the cable as a long length of copper does not have the required bandwidth. That is why you are getting the weak signal, or no signal message. So this upgrade is not optional for you if you want your system to stay up to date.

 

[moreira85]

Shouldn‘t to hard to change out. Go up on the attic and drop it down between walls. It’s an interior wall w no insulation. There’s no way of adding a powered extender to the existing cable ?

 

[Trebdp83]

As @TLS Guy mentioned, long runs with passive cables can result in signal loss. In Standard mode, 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 Bit color is supported using High Speed(10gbps) cable. 4K HDR @60Hz 4:2:0 10 bit or 4K Dolby Vision RGB 8 bit will require a Premium Certified(18gbps) cable and a TV in "Enhanced" mode to get HDR.

Some apps will support 24Hz(movie frame rate) output on certain devices set to match frame rate. But, not all will do so and there will be issues when trying to play 4K HDR 60Hz in this particular case. You can try to set the Fire Cube to output 4K @30Hz using the existing cable to see if the reduced bandwidth needed for output will get you a a 4K HDR signal with the TV in "Enhanced" mode.

 

[TLS Guy]

Shouldn‘t to hard to change out. Go up on the attic and drop it down between walls. It’s an interior wall w no insulation. There’s no way of adding a powered extender to the existing cable ?

No you can not add power to your existing cable as it is a bandwidth issue. You absolutely need fiber optics to carry the video in a cable of that length.

Those cable are fragile and you have to handle them gently. They are also expensive. So you absolutely need to place conduit first, before passing the cable, so you can gently pass the cable with a cable snake. Life gets more complicated whatever your endeavor. So it is essential to strive for best practice in all things. That is how you avoid trouble. Because of my career I am highly trouble averse. For me trouble could mean a half day out with the undertaker for some poor soul.

Conduit for front speakers, ethernet cables for TV.

For long runs and difficult areas this flexible conduit is very useful and carries ethernet and TV cable all over the house from the main entry point patch bays and hubs.

This junction box behind the TV is for the TV ethernet cable and the cables for the family room system.

All cables hidden away out of sight.

If a cable should fail, or needs updating, it can be changed quickly with no hassle.

 

[moreira85]

great job on that set up looks amazimg! Guess I have some work to do. Thanks for the info and the pics!