Hdmi fun stuff

[moreira85]

Just replaced my older tv w a new 75 Bravia. What I noticed w the Bravia is that I was getting audio but the picture that would intermittently go out and comeback on W continuous audio. I have 6 foot high speed hdmi that goes from receiver into a hdmi wall plate, then there’s a cable in the wall that runs up 4 feet into another wall plate, and finally another high speed 6 foot run to the TV.
to trouble shoot I ran the 6 foot high speed cable from receiver directly to the TV and no issues.
‘so now I’m guessing it’s these wall plates that don’t have strong connection or the hdmi cable in the wall may not be a 2.1. But what gets me is I didn’t have this issue w my older Samsung curved tv?
i Had an issue like this last year in my bedroom w hdmi and it was a pain but got the bedroom resolved.

 

[lovinthehd]

What do you mean by "high speed" hdmi when it comes to higher needs? What used to be a high speed with old tech, isn't necessarily that now....

 

[TLS Guy]

Just replaced my older tv w a new 75 Bravia. What I noticed w the Bravia is that I was getting audio but the picture that would intermittently go out and comeback on W continuous audio. I have 6 foot high speed hdmi that goes from receiver into a hdmi wall plate, then there’s a cable in the wall that runs up 4 feet into another wall plate, and finally another high speed 6 foot run to the TV.
to trouble shoot I ran the 6 foot high speed cable from receiver directly to the TV and no issues.
‘so now I’m guessing it’s these wall plates that don’t have strong connection or the hdmi cable in the wall may not be a 2.1. But what gets me is I didn’t have this issue w my older Samsung curved tv?
i Had an issue like this last year in my bedroom w hdmi and it was a pain but got the bedroom resolved.

The problem is that the cable run is too long. With these latest HDMI versions, max standard cable length is 6' to 12', actually closer to six in my experience.
With your upgrade you now need either a hybrid, or fully active HDMI cable. You need to get rid of those wall plates also. You need a clean run with an active cable from receiver to TV. You will also need a voltage inserter to power your cable unless you have a very new receiver with an HDMI HDCP 2.3 version to power the cable. If not you will blow the the receiver HDMI board.

I have a 32 ft. run from AVP to TV and have been using a Ruipro hybrid cable for six years, with no issues. I now have a Marantz AV 10 with HDCP 2.3 and have dispensed with the voltage inserter.

To keep the installation neat, you will likely have to open some walls to place conduit for the HDMI cable. If the cable fails then you can easily replace it. It is a golden rule that you need run ANY AV cable behind a wall that is not in conduit, NEVER.

 

[lovinthehd]

The problem is that the cable run is too long. With these latest HDMI versions, max standard cable length is 6' to 12', actually closer to six in my experience.
With your upgrade you now need either a hybrid, or fully active HDMI cable. You need to get rid of those wall plates also. You need a clean run with an active cable from receiver to TV. You will also need a voltage inserter to power your cable unless you have a very new receiver with an HDMI HDCP 2.3 version to power the cable. If not you will blow the the receiver HDMI board.

I have a 32 ft. run from AVP to TV and have been using a Ruipro hybrid cable for six years, with no issues. I now have a Marantz AV 10 with HDCP 2.3 and have dispensed with the voltage inserter.

To keep the installation neat, you will likely have to open some walls to place conduit for the HDMI cable. If the cable fails then you can easily replace it. It is a golden rule that you need run ANY AV cable behind a wall that is not in conduit, NEVER.

Sure glad I introduced you to Ruipro, altho you overstate the needs now.

 

[moreira85]

I will do that. The cable is the exact same as when I had my older tv. Didn’t change anything except the tv and now hdmi issue appears.

 

[moreira85]

What do you mean by "high speed" hdmi when it comes to higher needs? What used to be a high speed with old tech, isn't necessarily that now....

Just a cable that’s up to 48 gbps

 

[lovinthehd]

Just a cable that’s up to 48 gbps

And is rated to what length at that bandwidth?

 

[Kingnoob]

So these new TVs need special cables for HDMI HDCP 2.3 version?? My obsolete tv no hdr is only2.0 and 2.2 . Not sure how many more years it will last.

 

[highfigh]

And is rated to what length at that bandwidth?

Cable manufacturers/wholesalers say that Copper wire is OK until about 30', then optical is needed. At extreme lengths, 8K is very difficult or impossible at full bit depth/color gamut/HRD. HDMI extenders work for 1080p but if 4K is needed, it's a crap shoot- this is coming from Vanco, Ethereal and other brands.

 

[moreira85]

Well, I’ll do some more troubleshooting and let you know

 

[everettT]

Cable manufacturers/wholesalers say that Copper wire is OK until about 30', then optical is needed. At extreme lengths, 8K is very difficult or impossible at full bit depth/color gamut/HRD. HDMI extenders work for 1080p but if 4K is needed, it's a crap shoot- this is coming from Vanco, Ethereal and other brands.

The extenders that would work for 8k will cost a pretty penny and as you noted the 4k models that are not that affordable are hit and miss.

It sure would be nice if some the HDMI cable vendors would include some type of distance verification in their marketing materials.

 

[TLS Guy]

Cable manufacturers/wholesalers say that Copper wire is OK until about 30', then optical is needed. At extreme lengths, 8K is very difficult or impossible at full bit depth/color gamut/HRD. HDMI extenders work for 1080p but if 4K is needed, it's a crap shoot- this is coming from Vanco, Ethereal and other brands.

I don't believe for a minute copper wire is good to 30' for 4K. It is much easier to use a fiber optic cable and be done with the hassle. I am glad I went that way. It works perfectly, no issues and a superb picture.

 

[moreira85]

I am willing to test your theory. if I get a 25 foot HDMI cable and connect it from the receiver right to the TV you are saying it’s not gonna work? I am willing to test that theory.

 

[everettT]

I am willing to test your theory. if I get a 25 foot HDMI cable and connect it from the receiver right to the TV you are saying it’s not gonna work? I am willing to test that theory.

It will.be hit or miss, beyond 15' I wouldn't gamble if your pulling wire.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am willing to test your theory. if I get a 25 foot HDMI cable and connect it from the receiver right to the TV you are saying it’s not gonna work? I am willing to test that theory.

He did say 30' It is 4k also I take it rather than say 8k?

 

[moreira85]

4K but the issue with pic dropping out happens even when watching 1080 or 720. Im thinking it’s from the connections of the wall plates but im gonna test it

 

[TLS Guy]

4K but the issue with pic dropping out happens even when watching 1080 or 720. Im thinking it’s from the connections of the wall plates but im gonna test it

The wall plates will make matters a lot worse because of signal reflections. My recommendation for 4K and 8k is NO wall plates or other interruptions and for the video active beats copper certainly for runs over 10' and may be less. If this is a long term situation, then the best approach is to do it the optimal way now and be done with it. Finally you won't know how good your picture could be, as the picture will be downgraded even before the drop out point.

 

[highfigh]

I don't believe for a minute copper wire is good to 30' for 4K. It is much easier to use a fiber optic cable and be done with the hassle. I am glad I went that way. It works perfectly, no issues and a superb picture.

I think that the scope of your experience vs the testing by the AV/cabling industry has a wide gulf between them. They have the HDMI Consortium with all of its warts and allowances, but they also need to make sure some of what they say is true, or the whole industry behind accessories sales and the installation/custom integration channel would wake them up with a gloved hand over their collective mouths, to make them understand that we will not stand for problems with cables just so they can satisfy the demands of idiots who trowel crap out for the mass audience.

I have spoken with people who work for cable/accessory brands who actually use engineers to design the cables and other accessories for making HDMI send signals over varying distances- have you? I have contacted Ruipro a few times and it took more time than expected to receive answers and to be honest, not using wholesale distribution tells me one thing- they want to stay small. They also don't want a retail dealer network- I asked who sells their products and was told that I can buy them online- not gonna happen when customers can buy them from the same sources and one area where a CI contractor/dealer can make money is by selling parts they trust- if I install equipment for someone and they provide the parts, do you really think I, or anyone in this business, will replace them without charging for the labor?

HDMI has been enough of a problem through the time it has existed and I have posted my thoughts many times- a different system should have been developed and the HDMI board failures that have been seen, along with the cost to repair or replace equipment is a good example. Then, there are the cables that stopped providing video unexpectedly- how many threads and posts do we need to see online about seeing intermittent video, pink screens, green stripes, etc?

HDMI was intended for 6' maximum distance, connected once and left alone forever. It's incredibly stupid to believe that would work on a large scale and completely ignores the way people connect equipment throughout their homes.

They could have asked the industry that uses and installs AV, but that would mean admitting they don't know everything.

IMO, 30 feet seems to be an arbitrary distance- why release those cables at all if that's the maximum?

 

[highfigh]

4K but the issue with pic dropping out happens even when watching 1080 or 720. Im thinking it’s from the connections of the wall plates but im gonna test it

That could be true- the easiest (usually) way to test this is by moving a source device to the TV and making sure the source and TV work as they should- about 15 years ago, it wasn't uncommon to see symptoms similar to yours when some brands of DVD players were connected to certain brands of TVs, through a particular brand of AVR- I also saw cables of a few brands that would unexpectedly fail and the screen would be pink. Replacement of the cables took care of the problem and in the process, a lot of installers and companies lost money- why should the customer pay for it if the system was only a few months old and nothing had been damaged?

 

[highfigh]

The extenders that would work for 8k will cost a pretty penny and as you noted the 4k models that are not that affordable are hit and miss.

It sure would be nice if some the HDMI cable vendors would include some type of distance verification in their marketing materials.

This is one reason Remote Central was great- people from several manufacturers were members until the site went down for close to a year and we could exchange info in threads or contact them directly. Hopefully, they'll return now that the site is back.