HDMI 1.3 cable for 4K??? or HDMI over ethernet cable?

M

markustg

Enthusiast
#1
Just moved into a house.

I looking at the HDMI cables that were run from my AV cabinet under my stairs to the TV mounts all the HDMI cables are labled HDMI 1.3, so it has ARC.

I want to run a 4K signal from 4K fire stick from my new Denon AVR x2500h to the TV.

In order for 4K I need a newer HDMI cable??? 2.0? Running one and fishing it will be a huge pain. and the lengh will be about 18 feet or more.

However, there also is an unused ethernet cable.

Do the HDMI over ethernet adapters work well?

Or should I tough it out and run a new cable? Is this tool ong of a run??
 
L

Leemix

Full Audioholic
Ratings
125
#2
Ultra high speed is the new HDMI 2.1 specified cable, high speed hdmi is the minimum for 4k but costs basically the same so why not get the new one that will last longer.

There are some optical HDMI cables for very long runs but i dont know much about those so leave that to others.


Edit: P.S. Premium high speed hdmi is whats needed for full 4k compatability. High speed only supports some modes. Ultra high speed should be much more future proof.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,535 3
#6
There’s one or two other current threads about this also. If you really feel like you need to future proof yourself for 8K, you need to buy Ultra High Speed cables. If you are not likely to go that far in the near future, I recommend one of the Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMIs: they are inexpensive, yet good quality cables capable of doing everything (including eARC) just short of 8K, and are available in many useful lengths.
Also, as I understand it, the cables are not tied to HDMI protocol (i.e. 2.0, 2.1) except in marketing jargon. At the end of the day, the cable either works, or it doesn’t. No middle ground. Know your equipment, and you can find perfectly good, inexpensive cables to connect with no trouble!
 
M

markustg

Enthusiast
#7
Got cha.

So I wish it was easy to run a new cable. But I would have to go through my crawl space and it would be able 18 feet of cable.

Is HDMI over ethernet a good option in your opinion?

The Ethernet cable is already there.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,535 3
#9
Is HDMI over ethernet a good option in your opinion?
The ethernet feature is built into the cable... not HDMI over Cat6a or 5e. I won't pretend to understand it all. Suffice it to say, neither by themselves does what you think they should, it seems. *shrugs
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,535 3
#11
Did anyone ever actually implement the ethernet part of HDMI? IIRC no....
it seems from a light perusal, that no, the ethernet functionality hasn't really been adopted for the obvious usage of eliminating extra cables (i.e. ethernet to AVR, then e-net-capable-HDMIs to connecting devices). It seems that eARC requires the ethernet functionality, though. ARC, maybe not. *shrugs. Again, just a light dive. If I'm mistaken, I welcome correction! :)
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
2,023 2
#12
People are talking all over the place on this.

FIRST: TRY WHAT YOU HAVE!!!!!!

People believe that because the cable they already have isn't listed to support something that it must not support it. But, the reality is that many times cables that are in place already support resolutions and data rates which are beyond the specification that existed at the time which the cable was manufactured. This isn't always the case, but is most often the case.

SECOND: HDMI 2.1 cables basically don't exist. HDMI 2.1 has a 48Gb/s speed rating. It has some other features which have been implemented which are supported by HDMI 2.0 cables. But, the biggest difference, when it comes to cables, is that the speed almost tripled. Since HDMI 2.0 asks for cables which support 18Gb/s, that's the current highest level specification which can be supported across a long distance until new chips come to the market which can support the higher data rates. So, you won't have much luck in the 48Gb/s department on cables right now.

If you find your existing cable doesn't actually work, then you can look for a HDMI over Ethernet extender which supports 4K/60 signals at 18Gb/s. They do exist, and if running a new cable means opening walls, then an extender is a far cheaper option to repairing drywall and repainting.

18Gb/s HDMI can be tricky, and I'm not sure of which type of Ethernet cable that you have - cat5e or cat6? Also, the distance you seem to list as just about 25 feet or so from end to end. Which is VERY short in terms of network cable length.

I would expect that a HDMI extender would work just fine as long as it can support 18Gb/s HDMI.

This is the cheaper model:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21792#QuestionsandAnswers
This is the more expensive model:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21668

Neither is cheap.

If you have a crawl space and you don't need to do drywall work, and you are just complaining because it is a pain to do, but not actually going to cost a ton of money, then just replace the cable. Find out the right length, then get a new active HDMI 2.0, 18Gb/s rated cable. Test it across your floor for a week or two before you install it to ensure it works.

Understand that in 5 years or so, that if you upgrade, you will need to replace the cable again. That's the reality of home A/V.
 
M

markustg

Enthusiast
#13
Great advice!

I have hired the Geek Squad to install my TV over my fireplace on a existing mount.

I will have them try the cable that is there first!

My question is, if the signal works, then I am good to go right? My 4K fire stick that is plugged into my Denon will send a 4K signal on 4K content, so if that works I am good to go!?

If not, then I will have them install the HDMI over Ethernet adapter I bought from them .

Thanks.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
2,023 2
#14
It is VERY unlikely that the Ethernet to HDMI adapter that they sold you is actually rated for 18Gb/s HDMI. You should read the specifications on the box for what signal formats that it supports. It should specify HDMI 2.0 18Gb/s or HDMI 4K/60 4:4:4 as being supported. If you paid LESS than the price of the Monoprice units, than I almost guarantee they aren't cable of delivering.

Much of this stuff you can do yourself, but I understand that some people aren't up for that. Do not expect an installer from Geek Squad to actually be technical about how HDMI bandwidth works and if their product can actually support 18Gb/s 4K material. Most people don't know, don't understand, and just want it to work.

The bottom line is that if the cable you have DOES work, then why would you need to upgrade it or install something else? You won't need to... yet.

Be aware that after some warm up time and use, the cable often does start flashing or dropping out, and that's a good indicator that the cable isn't up to the requirements.

Understand that hooking up the HDMI extender is EXTREMELY easy as long as both ends of the Ethernet cable are already terminated with RJ45 connections.

You literally plug a HDMI cable from the transmitter into your receiver, plug the RJ45 into the transmitter. Plug the other end of the cable by the TV into the receiver's RJ45 connection, and plug a HDMI cable from the receiver into your TV. Then plug both the transmitter (Tx Unit) and receiver (Rx unit) into the wall for power.

That's it. There shouldn't be any additional configuration which is required on a standard HDMI extender.
 
M

markustg

Enthusiast
#15
Great advice!

I have hired the Geek Squad to install my TV over my fireplace on a existing mount.

I will have them try the cable that is there first!

My question is, if the signal works, then I am good to go right? My 4K fire stick that is plugged into my Denon will send a 4K signal on 4K content, so if that works I am good to go!?

If not, then I will have them install the HDMI over Ethernet adapter I bought from them .

Thanks.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
2,023 2
#18
The HDMI over ethernet kit they sold my was this one.

Key Digital - XO Series HDBaseT Cat-5e/6 Tx and Rx HDMI Extenders - Black
Model: KD-X222PO
SKU: 5746002

$399 cost (ouch)
That devices most definitely isn't an 18Gb/s solution by their specs. I would return it and get the Monoprice model which does claim support for 4K/60/4:4:4 - a 18Gb/s format.

From their specification sheet for the Key Digital:
https://files.bbystatic.com/2Qsd7yK2sCNaKlG+3i71eg==/ad754582-85a4-474d-b7e9-d75d9e1a41da.pdf

"Support for 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/25/30Hz at 4:4:4/8 Bit or 60Hz at 4:2:0/8 Bit"

60hz @ 4:2:0/8bit has a data rate of 8.91Gb/s. That's HDMI 1.4 specifications, not HDMI 2.0 specifications.

Data rates:
https://www.belden.com/blog/smart-building/understanding-4k-necessary-data-rates

 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,064 1 1
#20
Maybe I’m unclear on the product, but not sure how you can get 18Gbps if CAT6 only supports a max of 1Gbps. Even CAT7 is only 10Gbps.
 

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