Has anyone listened to the Axiom EP600 Sub

[MacManNM]

so mac you havent heard the ep500? i thought that was the whole reason you didnt believe the dbt by craigsub. i remember you saying you werent impressed with the ep500 especially compared to the ultra.

if anyone seems to be slamming, it seems like you try to slam axiom when compared to svs as often as possible. i respect svs, and might get the plus/2, but im not putting the ep500 out of my mind.. it is much smaller, and supposedly a great sub too. i think the plus/2 might sound better, but id pick the ep500 over the ultra, or plus. from what ive read anyway.

I believe i said:

when in fact all of the 3rd party measurements I've seen indicate that the SVS outperforms the Axiom

I believe I also said I never heard the EP600. I don't like nor do I dislike Axiom. I have listened to a few of their products, and some were good, and some were not. The performance of the 600 is not going to be much greater than the 500, it will extend lower, but some SPL will be sacrificed. It is a tradeoff. I have listened and built a lot of subs, simply put, if you aren't going to build your own, SVS or HSU is the next best thing. I believe the SQ out of either of those products VS price, is superior to anything on the market, including the PE DIY units. This is my opinion.

 

[KC23]

Sad every time someone looking for some simple opinions the school yard kids come out.

I doubt you would be disappointed with the EP600 or the SVS ultra 2 from what I've read. Don't let the children turn you off to either one.

Only way to know for sure is compare them both in your room. Yeah its a hassel, but no one can tell you what you would like better.

Unless you have a huge area you'd probably be happy with the EP500 and it won't be such an overpowering sight as the EP600.

Axiom prices include 2 day air and some of the best customer service you'll find anywhere for any product. I've also heard good things about SVS service.

Both are so well spoken of if it were me I'd go on looks. Obviously price isn't too much of an issue if your going all the way to a EP600.

 

[korgoth]

im not tryin to bicker at all.. i was just stating what i thought.
i receiveed a pm from mac sayin he had heard both the ep500 and the svs ultra, and that craigsub's test seemed fishy because the ep500 was dissapointing at best compared to the ultra in his opinion. Or something like that.

when mac was asked in this thread if he had heard the ep600, he stated he had heard many subs and many axiom speakers, but didnt mention the ep500 or ep600 specifically.

mac i would assume that if you had heard the ep500 you would have stated so, but its not like i would know for sure. It just seems like from your latest posts you seem to be implying that you have not heard the ep500 or 600. if im just falsely inferring that then my bad.

but it would be pretty weird if you sent that pm without even hearing the axiom sub.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Craig demo'd (had an in house shootout) 2 EP500's vs 2 SVS PB12 Ultra's. I've read the entire comparo over at A/V forums - it's long. The EP500 runs just under $1200. For my $$, I'd get one SVS PB12 Plus/2 (a totally different animial than the PB12 Ultra) for the same money - assuming you have enough room for an end table.

 

[jaxvon]

Well, even looking at Axiom's own measurements, the EP600 is flat to 20Hz...but at 90dB. Compare that to an SV ultra:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15809

 

[RMK!]

Well, even looking at Axiom's own measurements, the EP600 is flat to 20Hz...but at 90dB. Compare that to an SV ultra:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15809

You talk about “Axiom’s own measurements” and then post a link to a disputed "Finnish subwoofer shootout" and it is likely you have heard neither sub. Do you just feel compelled to post something?

 

[MacManNM]

im not tryin to bicker at all.. i was just stating what i thought.
i receiveed a pm from mac sayin he had heard both the ep500 and the svs ultra, and that craigsub's test seemed fishy because the ep500 was dissapointing at best compared to the ultra in his opinion. Or something like that.

when mac was asked in this thread if he had heard the ep600, he stated he had heard many subs and many axiom speakers, but didnt mention the ep500 or ep600 specifically.

mac i would assume that if you had heard the ep500 you would have stated so, but its not like i would know for sure. It just seems like from your latest posts you seem to be implying that you have not heard the ep500 or 600. if im just falsely inferring that then my bad.

but it would be pretty weird if you sent that pm without even hearing the axiom sub.

Yes, I have heard the 500, but that's not the point. I believe you can tell a lot about a loudspeaker (or sub in this case) by the anechoic FR of the unit. I believe that Craigs test conclusions were drawn upon bad test conditions. If you look at the quality of components, I believe the SV unit is the winner. I have not heard the 600. Based on the design, and all of the information I have, I would speculate that it couldn’t hang with a PB12-Plus/2 (I have heard ALL of the SV offerings). This is totally my opinion, and totally speculative.

 

[mike c]

repost:

hidog, what were your other 5 subs? ... and how does the EP600 beat the DD-18? (yes, your opinion)

 

[Sheep]

You talk about “Axiom’s own measurements” and then post a link to a disputed "Finnish subwoofer shootout" and it is likely you have heard neither sub. Do you just feel compelled to post something?

I think he was just showing what the Ultra is capable of. The EP600 didn't perform as well as the Ultra in an Anechoic enviroment.

SheepStar

 

[MacManNM]

You talk about “Axiom’s own measurements” and then post a link to a disputed "Finnish subwoofer shootout" and it is likely you have heard neither sub. Do you just feel compelled to post something?

I don't think he said he heard any of the above, he is just pointing out the quality (or lack thereof) of the axiom driver.

 

[MacManNM]

mac i would assume that if you had heard the ep500 you would have stated so

I don't bash companies (other than the paradigm thread, but any of you that know me, know that is mostly in jest), but truth be told, I thought the 500 was a bit boomy, and lacking in low-end extension. I still believe to this day that the SV ultra is a better unit (as measurements suggest). The 600 might be a bit better, due to the better cabinet design, I don’t know. When I look at those drivers, the quality of components, and the performance of the SV units (PB12-Ultra/2) , I have to say they are the winner.

 

[RMK!]

repost:

hidog, what were your other 5 subs? ... and how does the EP600 beat the DD-18? (yes, your opinion)

I have had:

Velodyne SPL1200II
Velodyne HGS12II
Velodyne DLS 5000R
Velodyne DD-18
Monitor Audio FB212 (for one week)
HSU VTF3MKII

And now the Axoim EP600

All were good subs, the HSU was a very good sub. The DD-18 and EP600 are great subs. It was a very close call between the DD-18 and the EP600. For me the bottom line was that the Velo is 2X+ the price and I liked the EP600 a bit better for music. No charts and graphs, just my ears.
That is my opinion.

 

[RMK!]

I don't think he said he heard any of the above, he is just pointing out the quality (or lack thereof) of the axiom driver.

Oh really, is that what he said?
Perhaps you should re-read his post.

 

[mike c]

hidog, thanks for your opinion ... can I ask for more?

so, if the EP600 trumps the DD-18 (for you), The DLS5000R would be out of the question right?
also, how big is your listening area?

 

[mike c]

Velodyne SPL1200II
Velodyne HGS12II
Velodyne DLS 5000R
Velodyne DD-18
Monitor Audio FB212 (for one week)
HSU VTF3MKII
Axoim EP600

i forgot to say: holy $h!t!

you wouldn't mind ranking them would you?

 

[craigsub]

Yes, I have heard the 500, but that's not the point. I believe you can tell a lot about a loudspeaker (or sub in this case) by the anechoic FR of the unit. I believe that Craigs test conclusions were drawn upon bad test conditions. If you look at the quality of components, I believe the SV unit is the winner. I have not heard the 600. Based on the design, and all of the information I have, I would speculate that it couldn’t hang with a PB12-Plus/2 (I have heard ALL of the SV offerings). This is totally my opinion, and totally speculative.

You don't even understand what the test conditions were. You made a series of asinine assumptions on the test we conducted here. For the record, the subs were phased properly, both Eq'ed within a +/- 3 dB in room Frequency response, level matched and put into the identical location.

As for all your assertions as to whether the EP-600 or a PB12-Ultra/2 is superior, we did extensive listening tests with a single EP-600 and dual PB12-Ultras. For sheer output, dual Ultras will exceed a PB12-Ultra/2 below 25 Hz.

If the EP-500 you heard was "boomy", then whoever set it up is incompetent.

Both the Ultra and the Epic series subwoofers are excellent products. I preferred the Epic series due to its overall accuracy - not because it played louder. I also detailed why others might prefer the Ultra - a lot depends on the criteria which is important to the purchaser.

 

[craigsub]

I think he was just showing what the Ultra is capable of. The EP600 didn't perform as well as the Ultra in an Anechoic enviroment.

SheepStar

The SVS was never tested in an anechoic environment by anyone but a gent named "jakeman", who did so at Axiom's headquarters in October.

A true anechoic setting is a VERY difficult one for subwoofer testing.

A lot of guys were taking the tests done by Audioholics on the Axioms subs and comparing them to those done by others on the SVS subs, and making judgements based on that.

The SVS subs were all measured using the groundplane method, @ 2 meters from the acoustical center.

Here is what the EP-600 looks like using the same type of measurement :

Note the 600 remains totally linear @ 100 dB from 18 to 100 Hz.

Here is the one test on an SVS PB12-Ultra/2 by Ed Mullen. These figures represent max output levels from the SVS, again taken @ 2 meters. Note the figures are amp limited to 30 Hz, so it really will not "go louder" at any of those frequencies:

16 Hz: 89.5 dB
18 Hz: 100.7 dB (8.4% THD amp limited)
20 Hz: 102.8 dB (9.4% THD amp limited)
22 Hz: 104.9 dB (7.7% THD amp limited)
25 Hz: 106 dB (6.2% THD amp limited)
30 Hz: 109.5 dB (7.9% THD amp limited)
40 Hz: 113.1 dB
50 Hz: 112.2 dB

 

[RMK!]

i forgot to say: holy $h!t!

you wouldn't mind ranking them would you?

I don't really care for ranking subjective things like speakers and subwoofers though we all have a tendency to do this. That said I value listening tests over computer measurements, especially those done by amateurs. Just tell me how it sounded to you and I'm happy (good thing others are more articulate and detailed in their descriptions than I am ). Ultimately, I'll decide for myself based upon my listening. Pretty simple but it can lead to a lot of buying and selling.

I have a very difficult space for audio (>7000ft3 with large openings) and many would say I was/am under-subbed with the DD-18 or the EP600. But they were the two subs that gave me the balance of power for HT and accuracy for music that I was looking for. As I said, it was a close call between them.

 

[mike c]

so what happened to your dd-18? didn't u consider dual subs? (both the 600 and DD?)

 

[Newfiestang50]

Guys it seems that the SVS ultra/2 and the EP 600 are very close in performance but correct me if i am wrong but the price of SVS unit is $2199 US (assuming that their prices are in US $$) as compared to $1750 US for the EP 600, that is a $400 dollar difference. Now the question is if the SVS unit is better, is it that much better that one would pay an extra $$$ for it.