Hard time deciding between two receivers

C

cafez

Junior Audioholic
Got the pb-2000 pro. Tried out with some movies. And at first I was like where is bass, than did some configuration and well... With some bass rich scenes my room is literally vibrating. With songs its also really nice clean bass. SVS has nice app to Configure stuff.
 
C

cafez

Junior Audioholic
Oh and also had to get my friend to help bring it inside lol.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I'm sure you belong in that Denon Circle yourself that you had the need to quote this old post.

Ok, forget the sound quality, what about the heating issues on Denon/Marantz? I was gonna happily buy my 3rd Denon which was supposed to be the X3600H, but looking at Amazon reviews & also doin some research made me steer away from Denon completely.

So, therefore went for the Yamaha RX-A1080.

Also OP is happy with his Denon X3700H, so there wasn't a point for you bring this up again by quoting my post. Don't force me to comment further.



Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
A cable burning dumbass has no place discussing quality of any respectable company. Be it Yamaha or any other.
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I can't believe people are still *&^%$#@ about this Denon vs Yamaha thing!!! Before this thing gets locked (hope not..), may be I am going to say something too (or just one more time, as I might have said something similar before) based mainly on my own observations.:p

First of all, like ADTG, HD etc., for sound quality, my belief is that the likes of the midrange Y,D,M's comparable models are all good enough to pass an apples to apples double blind test in direct/straight/pure direct sort of modes when no REQ and/or DSPs are in effect.

In terms of running "warmer" or "hotter", while it certainly depends on each individual case to some extent depending on placement (space for natural vent/cooling), room temperature, and how the unit is used, that is, "how loud", types of contents listen to etc., I do have the following observations that I believe are more on the objective side of the equation:

- Yamaha's enclosures are relative larger (physical dimensions and number of amp channels)
- Denon/Marantz from X3600H and up models have better quality heat sinks vs Yamaha's stamp metal style ones
- Yamaha's heatsinks, look less robust (stamp metal types) but it looks like they have more surface area for heat dissipation so they likely would dissipate heat more effectively.
- Yamaha's power amp section has a better layout, comparable to the much more expensive Denon and Marantz flag ship models.

On the subjective side, clearly Yamaha's will likely run noticeable cooler based on the overwhelming praise from forum/users feedbacks.

There is still at least one unknown that happens to be an important factor, that is, the power amp design. On that, based on class AB design, it is well know that "bias" applied do have a narrow range, but also has a lot of influence on how warm the amp would run. My educated guess is that D+M's likely use higher bias, to achieve better distortions numbers/perceived sound quality, but that's just my guess as I have no way of comparing their bias currents even after reading some of their service manuals. Part of the basis of my guess is, both are of the class AB design that is well defined and to a large extent, the circuitry are becoming very similar, such as the use of push pull, Darlington output stages etc., so the remaining unknown that could contribute to heat load is the amount of "bias".

For those interested in more in depth explanation of higher bias vs lower, here's a link:

Pass LabsLeaving Class A - Pass Labs

Regardless, D+M's better measurements will almost certainly not translated into any audible benefits. The benefits of higher bias that N.Pass talked about, imo while true on paper, may not matter all that much for real world use.
 
S

Sachb

Full Audioholic
I can't believe people are still *&^%$#@ about this Denon vs Yamaha thing!!! Before this thing gets locked (hope not..), may be I am going to say something too (or just one more time, as I might have said something similar before) based mainly on my own observations.:p

First of all, like ADTG, HD etc., for sound quality, my belief is that the likes of the midrange Y,D,M's comparable models are all good enough to pass an apples to apples double blind test in direct/straight/pure direct sort of modes when no REQ and/or DSPs are in effect.
I respect your opinion but do you go buying an equipment in a store by puting up a blind fold?

Does ADTG, request his so called "customers" to put up a blind fold and then make them hear the sound of each reciever ?

It's like buying a car with your eyes closed by just feeling the shape of it.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I respect your opinion but do you go buying an equipment in a store by puting up a blind fold?

Does ADTG, request his so called "customers" to put up a blind fold and then make them hear the sound of each reciever ?

It's like buying a car with your eyes closed by just feeling the shape of it.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
Of course not.

I only mentioned "blind" because in additional to my own experience in having done numerous comparison listening, I also respect expert opinions, and studies/findings such as those by Harman International's. There are some good reads (some are downloadable for free) on the topics of subjective vs objective evaluations by people like Dr. Floyd Toole and Dr. Sean Olive. You seem like open minded and you may find some of those articles interesting.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I can't believe people are still *&^%$#@ about this Denon vs Yamaha thing!!! Before this thing gets locked (hope not..), may be I am going to say something too (or just one more time, as I might have said something similar before) based mainly on my own observations.:p
@PENG There’s actually only one person arguing about the D/M thing the rest of us are on the same page.
Just ignore him like they do on AVS.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic General
Same page? Give me Pionkyo or give me death! My Kingdom for an Onkyoneer! :D
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Got the pb-2000 pro. Tried out with some movies. And at first I was like where is bass, than did some configuration and well... With some bass rich scenes my room is literally vibrating. With songs its also really nice clean bass. SVS has nice app to Configure stuff.
Did you do the Sub Crawl?

 

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