Gun Fight at the RLA corral coming soon

[gene]

When the bonus check comes in I'll get a pair of both and listen for myself, but I'd love to see someone put these two head to head. Its almost like people intentionally don't review both.

No conspiracy , we just haven't gotten around to contacting them for review samples. We have heard good things about them so perhaps after CES we will give them a try. thanks.

 

[silversurfer]

Excellent review. Now if only you had included the Ascend CBM-170s... any reason they were not included? I've been going back and forth on the Ascend 170s vs the Axioms for some time now...

When the bonus check comes in I'll get a pair of both and listen for myself, but I'd love to see someone put these two head to head. Its almost like people intentionally don't review both.

The CBM-170's wouldn't have quite made it into the $300 or less category, and seem to be compared to Axiom M22's, PSB B25's, and even Paradigm Studio 20's. The quality of the drivers/components(not the cabinet) seem to be a little more upscale as well when compared to the shootout group. The new SE models that are being talked about on some other forums and released soon also use a Seas tweeter, that is quite upscale for budget speakers, but also bumps the price to about $350/pr I think.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I wrote claimed freq responce because most often than not we have found that advertised low freq extensions are not obtained in real world applications.

Sorry for being dense, but I don't understand. Assuming a speaker has an anechoic frequency response of say 50Hz to whatever. In what real world application would this not be achievable? In other words, if the speaker can produce 50Hz in a chamber, why not out of it?

 

[Sheep]

Sorry for being dense, but I don't understand. Assuming a speaker has an anechoic frequency response of say 50Hz to whatever. In what real world application would this not be achievable? In other words, if the speaker can produce 50Hz in a chamber, why not out of it?

Simple. They lied.

SheepStar

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Keep in mind that 50Hz from a small bookshelf may have been reproduced at 1 watt/1 meter, and -3dB. Sitting back 8-10 feet makes a world of difference. You may hear 20Hz in a pair of headphones, but pull them away from your head, and you'll lose most of that bass.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Keep in mind that 50Hz from a small bookshelf may have been reproduced at 1 watt/1 meter, and -3dB. Sitting back 8-10 feet makes a world of difference. You may hear 20Hz in a pair of headphones, but pull them away from your head, and you'll lose most of that bass.

I agree entirely, but I got the impression from RLA that the speakers may not have been able to achieve their stated response, hence the use of the word claimed.

 

[Sheep]

I agree entirely, but I got the impression from RLA that the speakers may not have been able to achieve their stated response, hence the use of the word claimed.

It is safer to say claimed. This way, he didn't have to measure I think the BIC's hit they're low end well. Sure sounded like it.

Headphones hitting 20Hz? Try 10. Mine go down to 14! And I have played tones to test that they do go to 20. After that, you need a mic, as they are not powerful enough to feel.

SheepStar

 

[jaxvon]

I can verify that the BICs dig down pretty deep for bookshelves. With proper placement near a wall or corner, you can use them without a subwoofer and get plenty of bass.

 

[HookedOnSound]

Good review Ray.

As someone mentionned, I would also like to see a sub $1000 Floorstanding speaker shootout.

Although I understand the decision to use the Yamaha RX-V4600 as the receiver for reference purposes, I don't think this is a real-word scenario where someone would mate $300/pr. speakers to a highly sophisticated and expensive receiver unit.

Maybe a shootout style review can also take advantage of comparing different receivers (including the reference system, maybe just 1 or 2) at different price points to see how well they are capable of pushing different speaker loads?

Just a thought.

Sincerely,

 

[jaxvon]

I think the point of using a nice piece of equipment like the RX-V4600 was to eliminate any question of electronics affecting the sound of the speaker (such as a cheap amp section in a receiver clipping). When you use a higher-end unit like the 4600, you're listening to the speakers, not the amp section straining with the speakers.

 

[MacManNM]

It is safer to say claimed. This way, he didn't have to measure I think the BIC's hit they're low end well. Sure sounded like it.

Headphones hitting 20Hz? Try 10. Mine go down to 14! And I have played tones to test that they do go to 20. After that, you need a mic, as they are not powerful enough to feel.

SheepStar

Any driver will reproduce virtually any frequency in the audio spectrum. I have no doubt your headphones will go down to 1 Hz. What is the point of having them go down to 14, or 20 for that matter, surely you don't think it's useable that low?

 

[shokhead]

Good review Ray.

As someone mentionned, I would also like to see a sub $1000 Floorstanding speaker shootout.

Although I understand the decision to use the Yamaha RX-V4600 as the receiver for reference purposes, I don't think this is a real-word scenario where someone would mate $300/pr. speakers to a highly sophisticated and expensive receiver unit.

Maybe a shootout style review can also take advantage of comparing different receivers (including the reference system, maybe just 1 or 2) at different price points to see how well they are capable of pushing different speaker loads?

Just a thought.

Sincerely,

Oh i belive thats most common,big $$ receiver and then some speakers,this from non-knowers like the ones that just walk into BB or CC. Very real world.

 

[Sheep]

Any driver will reproduce virtually any frequency in the audio spectrum. I have no doubt your headphones will go down to 1 Hz. What is the point of having them go down to 14, or 20 for that matter, surely you don't think it's useable that low?

Flat response in the audible range

SheepStar

 

[hopjohn]

The CBM-170's wouldn't have quite made it into the $300 or less category, and seem to be compared to Axiom M22's, PSB B25's, and even Paradigm Studio 20's. The quality of the drivers/components(not the cabinet) seem to be a little more upscale as well when compared to the shootout group. The new SE models that are being talked about on some other forums and released soon also use a Seas tweeter, that is quite upscale for budget speakers, but also bumps the price to about $350/pr I think.

You are right the CBM-170's are $328/pr. The speakers in the shootout would have fallen like dominos to this model in my opinion. Though at $278/pr. the Ascend HTM 200 would have fit nicely into this crop. Too bad it wasn't included.

As suggested I would like to see a shootout with the M22's and either version of the CBM-170.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Any driver will reproduce virtually any frequency in the audio spectrum.

I was under the impression that larger drivers were required to produce lower frequencies. If this is not the case, then why aren't tweeters used to produce the entire frequency range? I know it's a stupid example, but hopefully you can explain to me why it's stupid.

I have no doubt your headphones will go down to 1 Hz. What is the point of having them go down to 14, or 20 for that matter, surely you don't think it's useable that low?

Are you hinting at the fact that whilst a driver might reproduce frequencies, it might not reproduce them cleanly?

 

[craigsub]

You are right the CBM-170's are $328/pr. The speakers in the shootout would have fallen like dominos to this model in my opinion. Though at $278/pr. the Ascend HTM 200 would have fit nicely into this crop. Too bad it wasn't included.

As suggested I would like to see a shootout with the M22's and either version of the CBM-170.

According to Ian Colquhoun, the M3ti and Ascend 170 would be the best comparison, since he owns Axiom, and thinks the M3 is the better choice in his line up, who am I to argue ?

I have a pair of M3's now and am slated to get a pair of 170 SE's when they are available.

 

[MacManNM]

I was under the impression that larger drivers were required to produce lower frequencies. If this is not the case, then why aren't tweeters used to produce the entire frequency range? I know it's a stupid example, but hopefully you can explain to me why it's stupid.



Are you hinting at the fact that whilst a driver might reproduce frequencies, it might not reproduce them cleanly?

Correct, any driver can reproduce any frequency in the audio spectrum. Just because it can do it, doesn't mean it can do it well.

 

[jaxvon]

Correct, any driver can reproduce any frequency in the audio spectrum. Just because it can do it, doesn't mean it can do it well.

Or at any kind of usable/audible level for that matter.

 

[MacManNM]

Or at any kind of usable/audible level for that matter.

Thank you. I couldn't get the phrase down.

 

[RLA]

Hello All
I have read allot of praise directed toward the Ascend. I have been doing this long enough to realize that if a majority of educated and informed ears agree they are most likely worth the effort to review.