Good Surround Mix on Road Worthy Rescues

Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Watching the MotorTrend show Road Worthy Rescues (on streaming Discovery Plus) with Derek Bieri from Vice Grip Garage and the sound track for a ht system is always top-notch to me. Now, I just wish I could hear something in my Infinity surrounds whilst watching The Rockford Files! Either on DVD or Amazon Prime. I'd be happy with a simulated surround. But noooo! Didn't the old Pro Logic used to give you at least something in the surrounds when you are watching something 40 years old? My two newish avr's don't seem to do that. Dang it!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Watching the MotorTrend show Road Worthy Rescues (on streaming Discovery Plus) with Derek Bieri from Vice Grip Garage and the sound track for a ht system is always top-notch to me. Now, I just wish I could hear something in my Infinity surrounds whilst watching The Rockford Files! Either on DVD or Amazon Prime. I'd be happy with a simulated surround. But noooo! Didn't the old Pro Logic used to give you at least something in the surrounds when you are watching something 40 years old? My two newish avr's don't seem to do that. Dang it!
All current and recent Onkyo AVRs have up mixer including the Dolby upmixer which is the best one. It is called Dolby Digital surround. Read your manual!
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
All current and recent Onkyo AVRs have up mixer including the Dolby upmixer which is the best one. It is called Dolby Digital surround. Read your manual!
That's the DSP I use! Doesn't seem to do as much as the old Pro Logic to me!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
That's the DSP I use! Doesn't seem to do as much as the old Pro Logic to me!
That is because you listen to junk recorded by idiots. In fact the latest up mixers are excellent. They can not work unless phase relationships of the original recording are preserved. If you stick a mic in front of every instrument and mix it all down, though Heaven knows what echo devices and Eq you then all the phase relationships of the instruments and the venue are lost. So these systems like Dolby DD have no chance, because it defeats their modus operandi.

In the classical arena there is a massive trend back to minimal microphone setups so these programs can work their "magic". There has been a massive resurrection of the old Decca Tree I have noted in recent years, which seems to suit these upmixers very well.

When I do have engineers here on occasion from the 'pop/rock' domain then I run straight two channel stereo, as I know upmixers can not work.

When I used to make live recordings for radio broadcast for the local public radio station, I always employed minimal mic techniques. The Dolby upmixer works superbly with those recordings.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
They aren't idiots who were the sound engineers on Rockford. It was a show on tv in the 70's. No one in those days had any inclination to use anything but the single 4" full range driver on your average tv. So I don't understand how they were idiots.
But regarding what I said about pro logic, i might be remembering it wrong what setting I was using 20 years ago.
But still, I have read the manual and tried every option on the Onkyo and on my Denon and I cannot get simulated, up-converted or fake surround sound with my favorite 50 year old tv show. And that bums me out a tad bit.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
They aren't idiots who were the sound engineers on Rockford. It was a show on tv in the 70's. No one in those days had any inclination to use anything but the single 4" full range driver on your average tv. So I don't understand how they were idiots.
But regarding what I said about pro logic, i might be remembering it wrong what setting I was using 20 years ago.
But still, I have read the manual and tried every option on the Onkyo and on my Denon and I cannot get simulated, up-converted or fake surround sound with my favorite 50 year old tv show. And that bums me out a tad bit.
Yes, they were idiots. They used to set up the musicians in isolation booths in those days, and then mix it down. I remember attending some recording sessions at a Westlake equipped studio back in the seventies. I quickly concluded they were absolute clowns. If you record like that, then the Dolby upmixer can not possible work. It defeats the whole premise of its design.

The whole design rationale to to be able to preserve and reproduce the acoustic of the recording location in your room. As far as I can tell the Dolby upmixer does that incredibly well and preserves the acoustic of the venue remarkably well. So Orchestra Hall Detroit sound very different in my room to the Royal Albert Hall or a cathedral.
I have noted the simpler the microphone technique the better it works, as you would expect.

In your case the recording was almost certainly made in a dead acoustic, likely with isolation and to add insult to injury with added artificial reverb. No decent upmixer is going to make sense of that.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
“The Rockford Files” episodes had mono tracks. On disc and streaming, they are presented in 2.0 but nothing was done to them and they are still essentially mono tracks. Up mixers have a hell of a time with them and they actually sound best in mono sound mode.
 
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