Good quality speaker cable Recommendation?

H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I would like to know why orange, red, purple and other bright colors are available for speaker cable. I asked a rep a few days ago and he chuckled, then said that he doesn't know.

My next ones are gonna be wood grain.
 
M

MrHand08

Enthusiast
Thanks for all the recommendations!! Right now I'll probably buy some bulk cable and connectors from Blue Jeans cable for now . I've been happy with their interconnects.

I was also doing some research on the Speltz Anti-Cables. I've heard a lot of positive feedback about them. Although they don't seem that expensive as compared to some quality cables, a number of people have said you could make some of these cables yourself. He's using enameled magnet wire (annealed continuously cast oxygen free cooper). The anti-cables sell for $10/foot (or the bulk cable for $1.25/foot) but you can buy bulk enameled magnet wire for about $0.30/foot

Has anyone experimented with any DIY speaker cables using magnet wire?
If so, can you use any enameled magnet wire? Any recommendations for vendors to buy the magnet wire, connectors, additional insulation?
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for all the recommendations!! Right now I'll probably buy some bulk cable and connectors from Blue Jeans cable for now . I've been happy with their interconnects.

I was also doing some research on the Speltz Anti-Cables. I've heard a lot of positive feedback about them. Although they don't seem that expensive as compared to some quality cables, a number of people have said you could make some of these cables yourself. He's using enameled magnet wire (annealed continuously cast oxygen free cooper). The anti-cables sell for $10/foot (or the bulk cable for $1.25/foot) but you can buy bulk enameled magnet wire for about $0.30/foot

Has anyone experimented with any DIY speaker cables using magnet wire?
If so, can you use any enameled magnet wire? Any recommendations for vendors to buy the magnet wire, connectors, additional insulation?
Read the Audioholics review for cabling. Since you asked about the $10/ft magnete wire, it's clear that you either didn't read the comments that say high priced cable isn't necessary and won't make enough of a difference to justify the cost or you don't believe it.

All these guys are doing is making it look like they re-invented the wheel from better materials and that it rolls better. And getting rich in the process.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
cutter;496735 silly silly boy-- haven't you learned by now that women are NEVER "free"-- in whatever context you want to use the word! you will ALWAYS pay said:
You got that right:D
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
Go to the LDS Stake Center in Naperville and turn the volume control past 8 and tell me that. It's a 70V system and suffered from capacitive coupling between the speaker cables and input cabling.
My system is pretty far away from there.:rolleyes:

From BJC.
Speaker cable is a bit different from a lot of the interconnect cables we handle, in several respects. Because speakers are driven at low impedance (typically 4 or 8 ohms) and high current, speaker cables are, for all practical purposes, immune from interference from EMI or RFI, so shielding isn't required. The low impedance of the circuit also tips the balance of concern from capacitance, which is important in interconnect use, to inductance, which, while a concern, can be controlled only to a limited degree.
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
As I posted before, engineers use cabling because it meets spec and it's the people who listen to the equipment who drive the markets for accessories that are supposed to make it sound just a little better, usually for a lot more money.
Yeah, I'm an engineer so I know what engineers look at. ;)

But, I also like to get laid, so I was just trying to nicely state that if the wire isn't hidden spend a little extra scratch on something that looks good in your room if its visible. I'm pretty sure he understood.
 
Z

zumbo

Audioholic Spartan
But, I also like to get laid, so I was just trying to nicely state that if the wire isn't hidden spend a little extra scratch on something that looks good in your room if its visible. I'm pretty sure he understood.
I can understand the looks part. I have open beam ceilings. That is why I use IXOS Gamma Geometry 13AWG. Doesn't get my wife hot though.:rolleyes:


13AWG Silver
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/IXOSXHS706S/IXOS/XHS706-13-AWG-GAMMA-GEOMETRY-SPEAKER-WIRE-SILVER-PER-FOOT/1.html

13AWG White
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/IXOSXHS706W/IXOS/XHS706-13-AWG-GAMMA-GEOMETRY-SPEAKER-WIRE-WHITE-PER-FOOT/1.html

11AWG Silver
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/IXOSXHS806S/IXOS/XHS806-11-AWG-GAMMA-GEOMETRY-SPEAKER-WIRE-SILVER-PER-FOOT/1.html

11AWG White
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/IXOSXHS806W/IXOS/XHS806-11-AWG-GAMMA-GEOMETRY-SPEAKER-WIRE-WHITE-PER-FOOT/1.html
 
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H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yeah, I'm an engineer so I know what engineers look at. ;)

But, I also like to get laid, so I was just trying to nicely state that if the wire isn't hidden spend a little extra scratch on something that looks good in your room if its visible. I'm pretty sure he understood.
Your speaker cables get you laid? Dang! I needs me some o' dat! What kind do you have?:D
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Your speaker cables get you laid? Dang! I needs me some o' dat! What kind do you have?:D
They are called God's Vagina, about 100 a pair.

Actually all I mean is my girlfriend won't allow me to run typical speaker wire across my floor.:eek:


 
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M

MrHand08

Enthusiast
Read the Audioholics review for cabling. Since you asked about the $10/ft magnete wire, it's clear that you either didn't read the comments that say high priced cable isn't necessary and won't make enough of a difference to justify the cost or you don't believe it.

All these guys are doing is making it look like they re-invented the wheel from better materials and that it rolls better. And getting rich in the process.

That's why I asked about making some cables myself using magnet wire or other cable recommendations. I would never buy the $10/ft anti-cables. I know some people who buy into the hype and swear by using expensive cables. There seems to be no convincing them otherwise.

I read some of the Audioholics reviews on speaker cabling and one of the reviews recommended Blue Jeans cables or Impact Acoustics. I've used Blue Jeans cables, IXOS, and some Home Depot 14 gauge wire. What do you recommend for speaker cables?
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
That's why I asked about making some cables myself using magnet wire or other cable recommendations. I would never buy the $10/ft anti-cables. I know some people who buy into the hype and swear by using expensive cables. There seems to be no convincing them otherwise.

I read some of the Audioholics reviews on speaker cabling and one of the reviews recommended Blue Jeans cables or Impact Acoustics. I've used Blue Jeans cables, IXOS, and some Home Depot 14 gauge wire. What do you recommend for speaker cables?
I posted this yesterday- "I have used Monster, Liberty, Planet Waves, Stinger, AudioQuest (I hate terminating their stuff, too), Phoenix Gold, Honeywell's Genesis, and other brands that I can't remember." but I'll add Belden, West Penn (now part of Belden), Esoteric and Nakamichi to the list. Some are a royal PITA to work with, like Monster speaker wire with the soft white jacket. It catches on things and tears, the actual insulation is very soft and not durable at all.

I read the Ixos links and what they say about the conductors crossing at almost right angles. I have seen no other brand of commercial/pro cabling that does this, either for speaker or interconnect cabling. I have heard about braiding wires to minimize noise pickup but in the end, twisted pair ends up being quieter because of its ability to cancel "common mode" noise which is basically the magnetic field from the noise on one conductor canceling the magnetic field from the noise on the other conductor. Braiding the wires doesn't let this happen. I used one set of Ixos interconnects and was not impressed by the materials, at all. Braided wires, a translucent white nylon braided mesh cover and no-name XLR ends, with a retail price of $400/6ft pair. The old Audio Technica mic cables I used first sounded just as good and they're 25' long. That test was blind on my part because I had no idea what was being used and I specifically told the other person to change them when he wanted, or not.

The cabling I prefer has a Teflon jacket, which glides over whatever it comes in contact with. The insulation is strong and tough, the wire strands are fine and that makes it more flexible. Also, the insulation shouldn't melt and swell when soldering, unlike Monster. Granted, they didn't spec it for soldering and in that respect, it's a wild success. I will never try to solder that stuff again. Genesis, Liberty, Stinger, the wire sold by Jamo and Belden are good brands. I install for a living and can't afford to screw around with cabling that wastes my time and money, so I, and many others in my position will generally use one main brand because we can rely on it and if we get better pricing when we buy enough.

As I said, I don't think I have heard any speaker cable that was noticeably/drastically better sounding than others unless the worse sounding one(s) were inadequate gauge or had some other problem.

Something I have written, posted and said many times before- we will never hear the music the same as it was in the studio or mastering room. We don't have the same room, equipment, acoustics or anything else that could allow this. All we can do is try to find equipment that sounds good to us. Sometimes, we get lucky and find a great piece that makes the music seem more real than we think possible. Sometimes, we find equipment that all but disappears when we're listening and when that happens, we have to consider our efforts a success. I play guitar and have been absolutely blown away by how real some recordings sound coming through my system. My guitar amp is very close to my stereo speakers and there are times when it almost sounds too real, if you know what I mean.

The point that speaker wire carries a higher current signal and it's less susceptible to noise pickup and other factors is a good one. If we can hear the difference between one cable and another, it's probably because we want to and that's exactly why double blind testing is so important. If we know what the choices are, we'll usually have a preconceived notion about at least one of them.

I think the main reason the brands you listed are recommended here is that tehy're basically good cable/plugs/etc and the price isn't unreasonable. They aren't more marketing than substance and in 30+ years in htis business, I'm about fed up with marketing BS. With all of the sales reps and their promises of vastly improved sound, I can't think of a single cable that did what they said it would. I have chosen some because they were easier to work with, though. Nakamichi audio cable was OK but their RCA plugs didn't like to accept solder, so we switched to Esoteric Audio, which had its own issues. I moved on and we started using AAMP of America's Stinger cables and they were a piece of cake to solder, sounded at least as good as anything else and were reasonably priced. Then, the buyers drank the Monster Kool Aid and our demands were trumped by bean counters.
 
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H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I've heard of people using a car battery, jumper cables and a coat hanger to weld, so it will definitely handle a lot of current but once an amp tries to drive more current than a conductor is capable of, it heats up, causing the voltage to drop. Unless someone wants to hear their system from a great distance, I'm pretty sure most 16 AWG is fine for short runs and 14AWG is fine for most normal length runs (less than 50').

I'm constantly amazed by the number and variety of cabling that's supposed to change our lives, win the war for the allies and clear up those nasty zits.
 
F

Fuller

Audiophyte
I'm constantly amazed by the number and variety of cabling that's supposed to change our lives, win the war for the allies and clear up those nasty zits.
Indeed, and what is important to understand is that there are as many variations in the human ear as there are in cable quality. Your own unique genetic information might mean that coat hangar wire sounds better to you then monster cabling. Sound is as unique as the listener. Get the stuff which sounds best for YOU. However much you want to spend.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My point was that there are so many companies using BS to sell their cables. The differences are small and less a matter of human hearing differences than how the mind influences the perception of the sound. If someone wants to hear the difference, they usually will. If they don't want to, they usually won't. If they go in with a completely open mind, they usually won't unless the one that sounds worse isn't able to carry the signal.

If I wanted to make a lot of money by selling expensive cabling, I could, but my conscience would make it hard to sleep or look at myself in the mirror. I apologized for the $400 IXOS cables I sold because they sounded no different from my 25' Audio Technica mic cables. If it makes the sound or video better, I'll sell it but if it doesn't, I won't.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The link has some points that are important to this debate-

Cabling can make a system sound different. Usually, it's because of capacitance and it doesn't make it sound better. Amps hate it and Kimber Cable had a reputation for killing amps in the '80s because of this.

Someone commented that good cables are like better air flow through an engine's intake and exhaust. If the cables make this possible, it has to be measurable. It can't just be magic.

Someone else changed the speaker wire from 16AWG stranded to 24AWG magnet wire and said it smoothed out a rise, increased the Qts and made the bass stronger. That may be but it flies in the face of every recommendation that has been made in recent memory that larger conductors make for better sound.

The problem I have with companies that sell cable is that they make blanket comments about how their products will make any system sound better and that's just not very likely. If the manufacturers want to convince me (and a lot of others), it will be by submitting their cables for double blind testing on a variety of systems, performed by an independent party.
 
R-Carpenter

R-Carpenter

Audioholic
Yes, me, thank you.
The link represents I think 2 years of going back and forth with this subject. You have opinions from knowledgeable people and beginners. I myself spend $150 for a few feet of 99.99 ultra pure silver in Teflon jacketing from Home Grown Audio and made 3 sets of interconnects. We've tested them on systems vary in price between $10k and $30k In a double blind test, 4 people could not hear difference between my silver and a cheap Monster Cable RCA. I should also mention that Monster was 3 times longer. I've made some experiments with speaker cables also using my speakers. For example, I'd run a 10 ft longer cable for left channel and then switch a channel and ask an unaware lister if he heard any difference. Every time I'd be asked a question: “ what should I hear?” I sold 2 out 3 interconnects on ebay and actually made a few $.
My personal opinion is that your regular consumer should spend his $$$ on speaker first, amplifier second and then everything else.
The only problem I have with budget copper speaker cable is that they tarnish and turn green.
Does it affect the sound? I am not sure but it does look yakky.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes, me, thank you.
The link represents I think 2 years of going back and forth with this subject. You have opinions from knowledgeable people and beginners. I myself spend $150 for a few feet of 99.99 ultra pure silver in Teflon jacketing from Home Grown Audio and made 3 sets of interconnects. We've tested them on systems vary in price between $10k and $30k In a double blind test, 4 people could not hear difference between my silver and a cheap Monster Cable RCA. I should also mention that Monster was 3 times longer. I've made some experiments with speaker cables also using my speakers. For example, I'd run a 10 ft longer cable for left channel and then switch a channel and ask an unaware lister if he heard any difference. Every time I'd be asked a question: “ what should I hear?” I sold 2 out 3 interconnects on ebay and actually made a few $.
My personal opinion is that your regular consumer should spend his $$$ on speaker first, amplifier second and then everything else.
The only problem I have with budget copper speaker cable is that they tarnish and turn green.
Does it affect the sound? I am not sure but it does look yakky.
The cable that makes the copper turn green has PVC in the insulation. If you get the kind that doesn't (most CL2 and CL3 doesn't and plenum rated cables can't have PVC), it won't be a problem. If you use Tarnex, it will clean the ends but through capillary action, it will be very hard to completely dry the ends of the cable.

If you want/are able to, make a set of interconnects with regular, basic RG-59 or RG-6 with compression (Snap N Seal) type F connectors and F-RCA adapters and compare them with some of the expensive ones. The results are usually surprising to many.

I agree with the order of equipment you listed and this is actually a pretty common thing but I have heard of dealers telling customers that they should allow 15% of the system price for cabling and since it's not hard to spend $5K, I find $750 to be excessive, personally. As someone who sells and installs systems, I would like the profit this would generate but better speakers would make more of a difference. I also think more should be done in the area of room treatments but this is where this hobby/obsession clashes with the decorating plans.
 
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