good avr for 1000 euro pricepoint

[TLS Guy]

I would agree with using an ext. amp with the AVR, but I can't because the Onkyo 5100 does not appear to have front right and left pre outs, below is from the manual, unless the EU models are different, that might be possible, otherwise the pre outs are for subwoofers and zone B only.

Anyway, the OP can confirm that easily by a quick look at the rear panel.

View attachment 72379

View attachment 72379

That is odd as the picture I brought up showed right and left preouts. There must be two versions.

 

[Trebdp83]

The Pre Out is for Zone B and it could be used for connection to an amplifier to power the speakers when using a 2.0 speaker configuration. Zone A can be turned OFF and just Zone B ON. The Zone B Line Out volume level would need to be set to “Variable” when connected to an amplifier.

If the receiver is in its default state, things need to be adjusted for the 2.0 setup. It defaults to a 7.1 speaker configuration with Subwoofer set to Yes and a 100Hz crossover setting for the seven channels.

There is no 2.0 Speaker Configuration setting. So, it must be set to 2.1 and Subwoofer set to NO. This will automatically set the Front Speakers to “Full Band.”

If the default settings were used, one may have been turning up the volume for low bass effects that would never have been delivered to the speakers and overheated the receiver in the process.

 

[Antares]

That is odd as the picture I brought up showed right and left preouts. There must be two versions.

It's possible as the Denon X1700h has two different models for the States and one for Europe, the former having an SPDIF input.

 

[Trebdp83]

Onkyo TX-NR5100:

 

[lovinthehd]

@TLS Guy Yes that might be reason. To get the best movie and gaming experience I listen rather loud to real ht experience.

Looking into a good amp is great idea. Thanks for your recommending the quaad 606.

@lovinthehd The speakers are on the left and right side of the TV. The seating distance between me and the TV Chair is about 3.5 meter. In order to get good home theater experience I listen I crank up the volume.

Getting a subwoofer to reduce the strain sounds like a good idea. The purchase of a subwoofer is planned anyway.

At some point this year I plan to get XTZ sub or the svs pb 1000pro.

@all So you think it would be good strategy to try to get good amp first before getting rid of the onkyo? In case this not working the amp would still be a valid investion.

I can use the amp as well with a denon x3800 or the Yamaha .

is the asumption correct?

Might play around with something like this http://www.hometheaterengineering.com/splcalculator.html to help estimate needs. Personally I'd start with a sub before a power amp for the speakers. OTOH I've always had a bunch of power amps to test with (mostly they don't make a difference at levels I generally listen at vs avr alone, tho).

 

[lovinthehd]

@TLS Guy Yes that might be reason. To get the best movie and gaming experience I listen rather loud to real ht experience.

Looking into a good amp is great idea. Thanks for your recommending the quaad 606.

@lovinthehd The speakers are on the left and right side of the TV. The seating distance between me and the TV Chair is about 3.5 meter. In order to get good home theater experience I listen I crank up the volume.

Getting a subwoofer to reduce the strain sounds like a good idea. The purchase of a subwoofer is planned anyway.

At some point this year I plan to get XTZ sub or the svs pb 1000pro.

@all So you think it would be good strategy to try to get good amp first before getting rid of the onkyo? In case this not working the amp would still be a valid investion.

I can use the amp as well with a denon x3800 or the Yamaha .

is the asumption correct?

Power amps work fine with avrs with pre-outs. I prefer a full set of pre-outs rather than just L/R, tho.

 

[PENG]

It's possible as the Denon X1700h has two different models for the States and one for Europe, the former having an SPDIF input.

Here we are not talking about Denon, but the Onkyo 5100.
As to Denon, since you mentioned the 1700, I had the X1800H so I know the NA version like mine (Canada), have front left and right pre outs whereas the EU version does not have them. Not sure about the 1700 though.

 

[PENG]

Onkyo TX-NR5100:
View attachment 72400

Just a cautionary note, in some cases, such as Denon's, the pre out for zone 2, B or whatever they call them, have different circuitry and parts, such as a different volume control IC, understandably because they are 2 channel stereo only. The difference in the circuitry is only slightly different but with different volume chips, the specs could be quite different such as THD+N, nominal/max output voltage etc.

 

[PENG]

Power amps work fine with avrs with pre-outs. I prefer a full set of pre-outs rather than just L/R, tho.

I don't mind not having a full set on those lower priced units but wish they include the center channel as we all know the center channel contents in movies often are as demanding as the left and right channels, in some cases more demanding. Some channel center speakers such as B&W, Focal's could have low impedance with major dips too.

 

[Trebdp83]

It can be a dangerous thing to use the Zone B Pre Out. It isn’t intended for use as a Front Channel Pre Out. It can work in a pinch for a 2.0 setup but the Volume setting for Zone B must be set to “Variable” when connecting an amplifier or a loud fixed signal will be output and it may damage the speakers.

Some Onkyo receivers will have only a Zone B Pre Out and some a Zone 2/B combo. Only the RZ30, RZ50 and RZ70 have proper Pre Outs for every channel for use with external amps. They also feature the Zone 2/B combo.

 

[Antares]

Here we are not talking about Denon, but the Onkyo 5100.
As to Denon, since you mentioned the 1700, I had the X1800H so I know the NA version like mine (Canada), have front left and right pre outs whereas the EU version does not have them. Not sure about the 1700 though.

The NA version of the X1700 also has pre outs, maybe it's a regional thing, like AVRs in Japan coming with an AAC decoder and the other versions without.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't mind not having a full set on those lower priced units but wish they include the center channel as we all know the center channel contents in movies often are as demanding as the left and right channels, in some cases more demanding. Some channel center speakers such as B&W, Focal's could have low impedance with major dips too.

Yeah to get center you usually need the full set of pre-outs.....maybe I've seen one with just lcr preouts? Maybe?

 

[PENG]

Yeah to get center you usually need the full set of pre-outs.....maybe I've seen one with just lcr preouts? Maybe?

Very true, sometimes I wish I could advice those manufacturers, for example:

- Pre outs, it is very cost effective to provide the Center in addition to FL and FR, if it isn't the warranty void issue, it would have been easy enough to DIY too but why should people bother when it is so easy to do.

- Discrete subouts, the cost of that is just one more dac channel and we all know how cheaply that can be done but we have many >$1,000 AVR even 2 ch integrated that won't do it.

- 2.1/2.2, everyone seems to get tuck with the idea that by adding one single subout derived from the L/R is the best thing they have ever done, yet that is not .1 or .2 by accepted definition. I understand that is all people want for integrated amps or 2 ch receivers that don't come with HDMI input and/or USB DAC inputs, but those that do, yet without the .1 or .2, would preclude the use of Dirac Live and other RC systems and users will be forced to use additional outboard devices such as the miniDSPs, and even those, also missed the opportunity in other ways.

I don't know if manufacturers are ill advised by their marketing teams. I do understand the cost side, but nowadays it is so easy to provide some paid options, miniDSP sort of is doing that, so we use order one of their devices you have some paid options to choose from, yes I mean on the hardware side as well, not just software like DL. Example, unbalanced vs balanced, digital inputs vs no analog inputs etc.