GIK Acoustics 244 Sound Panel Review

[Glenn Kuras]

well that would just be to easy now would it not?

Glenn

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Thanks Glen...

And yep, feel free to copy them if you'd like.

 

[Ethan Winer]

Glenn,

> well that would just be to easy now would it not? <

ROF,L.

Actually, there's a small error in my statement "works with all web sites." Some sites use a little Javascript routine to disable right-clicks because they don't want you to grab their images or use View Source to see how they coded the page. If you ever encounter that, use Save As in IE to save the page and all its images to your hard drive. Then you can open the page in Notepad, and grab all the images from the folder IE puts them in.

--Ethan

 

[HAA Acoustics]

In case anyone is still reading this thread, my absence is not due to indifference. I do sense that at some stage these forums become relegated to a give and take along the lines of "Is". "Is not". "Is so!!!" "Is not". My only hope is that our customers out there can weed through the discussion and find some useful tidbits of information. I've found that while we hem and haw about how many angels will fit on the head of a pin some folks lose interest and decide to live with poor sound quality or worse never make the investment in quality sound. Good sound quality management advice is practical advice that resonates with the realities of a clients home, budget and aesthetic sensibilities. If anyone out there is concerned that decent sound requires Herculean efforts (and Joabean patience from your significant other) please feel free to voice your thoughts. I believe all of us are more interested in encouraging your participation than complicating your life.

HAA

 

[Glenn Kuras]

>hem and haw about how many angels will fit on the head of a pin <

You could not say it any better then that. The best way to get someone not to do anything is to lose them in the science of it. If people do not understand then they will probably not do anything. If I understand what you said.. ha ha ha

Glenn

 

[Ethan Winer]

Gerry,

> I believe all of us are more interested in encouraging your participation than complicating your life. <

Well stated, thanks. In the end we all agree on the big picture, even if it's fun to chat endlessly over how large a physical area EQ can reduce ringing.

--Ethan

 

[Glenn Kuras]

Gerry,

> I believe all of us are more interested in encouraging your participation than complicating your life. <

Well stated, thanks. In the end we all agree on the big picture, even if it's fun to chat endlessly over how large a physical area EQ can reduce ringing.

--Ethan

Ethan you just love poking that stick now don't you!

Glenn

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Glenn, do you have any new pics of your white panels ?

--Sincerely,

 

[Glenn Kuras]

not sure what is the best email for you now, , but email me and I will see what I can come up with.

Glenn

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Glenn, I emailed you and I have got no reply (concerning pics).

--Sincerely,

 

[Glenn Kuras]

You did email me? Let me check to see.. Do me a favor and send one more time. Maybe you went to my spam filter.

Glenn

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

I can't email right now but I will soon. I had a conversation with a friend of mine who has an EE background and I was explaining to him how sound waves work in a room.

I told him that the resonating frequencies of any room are determined by it's dimensions which is pretty much one of the most fundemental principles of how sound waves work as it pertains to rooms.

Now he said that if you put insulating material in the walls that the resonating frequency can change. I was like, wtf ? The resonating frequency can't change based on insulation material because the actual room dimensions haven't changed. I mean, duh.

What do you guys think ? Agree, disagree ?

--Sincerely,

 

[ScottMayo]

I told him that the resonating frequencies of any room are determined by it's dimensions which is pretty much one of the most fundemental principles of how sound waves work as it pertains to rooms.

Now he said that if you put insulating material in the walls that the resonating frequency can change. I was like, wtf ? The resonating frequency can't change based on insulation material because the actual room dimensions haven't changed. I mean, duh.

What do you guys think ? Agree, disagree ?
--Sincerely,

There are discernable changes. Some (LF) waves go through the wallboard and rebound on whatever's behind it - concrete, other wallboard, whatever. Putting absorption in there eats some of the energy, decreasing that particular resonance. Insulation also changes how much the wallboard can freely vibrate, and since sound travels at a different rate in wallboard than air, that reduces another source of potentially resonant sound, with its own set of frequencies.

I know that a room "sounds different" when the walls are insulated, and there's more involved than the lessening of background noise. No, it won't affect the primary modes to speak of, but rooms have more going on than just the primary modes.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

I am talking about the fundamental resonant frequencies. Will they be changed by simply putting insulation material in the walls ?

I don't understand how that would be. I always thought that the dimensions dictated what the resonant frequencies would be. And since the rooms dimensions are fixed, there would be fixed fundamental room modes per dimension (in a rectangular room).

My friend has insulation material in a wall and I explained to him that that insulation would not affect the fundamental room resonances. He didn't understand that logic and insisted that the resonant frequencies would change because of the insulation material.

If we have an axial mode calculated to be 40hz which is the fundamental, and we have the second and third harmonic frequencies which would be 80hz and 120hz respectively, I don't see how putting insulation material in the wall is going to change those axial modes because the distance between both walls still remain the same (fixed dimensions).

Either one of us is right or one of us is wrong. What are your thoughts on this ?

--Sincerly,

 

[ScottMayo]

My friend has insulation material in a wall and I explained to him that that insulation would not affect the fundamental room resonances. He didn't understand that logic and insisted that the resonant frequencies would change because of the insulation material.

The primary modes - the fundamental resonant frequencies of the air betweenthe walls - won't change. Some less obvious stuff does. Maybe he was thinking of the resonant frequencies of the walls themseves; those would change.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

I'm a little confused. Could you please explain ? When we talk about room modes, we are talking about the wall spacings, that is how one determines the resonant frequencies, correct ?

I never thought about the resonating frequencies of the walls itself and I never knew that putting material in it would change it. I thought that primary room modes were 100% a function of the rooms dimensions (wall to wall spacings).

At least I thought this. I have read Everast twice and I don't think he mentioned changing resonant frequencies by adding sound material in the walls, unless I seriously overlooked things.

Your advice would be appreciated. Just when I thought I had a very good grasp on this then something comes along and messes it all up.

--Sincerely,

 

[Buckle-meister]

Just when I thought I had a very good grasp on this then something comes along and messes it all up.

I wouldn't worry Vaughan as your understanding of the matter is correct.

Go to page 327 of The master handbook of acoustics (I've the fourth edition) and you'll see the equation for determining axial and/or tangential and/or oblique modal frequencies. The only variables in the equation are the speed of sound, mode number under consideration and the room's dimensions. Nowhere are the room's wall's material properties taken into consideration, so we conclude that the frequency of any given room mode is dependant only upon it's dimensions.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Thank you Buckle-meister. You know, trying to explain these things to other people can be more difficult than I thought. But I hate it when people don't understand or know the importance of bass traps.

My one collegue has a room that has been treated without a single bass trap (which wouldn't technically qualify as a fully treated room in my opinion), but he tells me that his room has perfect acoustics in his opinion. His room is large (around 7000 cubic feet). He has extensive treatment for mid and high frequencies.

But explaining the fact that peaks and nulls exist in all rooms at all frequencies can sometimes be a exercise in futility.

I guess the only way to prove things is just to measure his room and show him the results because sometimes actually explaining things is futile. At my work, I try to help my clients understand the importance of acoustics too.

Even if it's just the basics. Everything helps. And what I find strange is that in South Africa, there are almost no companies dealing specifically in acoustics. There is one that I know of but they sell tuned helm holtz resonators (which are apparently tested and certified).

--Sincerely,

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Glenn, you have mail.

--Sincerely,

 

[Buckle-meister]

I guess the only way to prove things is just to measure his room and show him the results...

Yes, do this...

...and watch his jaw drop when he sees them.