Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Home Theater...

RJB

RJB

Audioholic
Custom cabinets...the saga continues

OK, it's been a few days since my first rant, now I can provide an update..

The designer called me back Friday morning and was horrified when I told her what was going on. She came over within an hour. Her first words were, and this is an honest quote, "Oh my!"

Yup, that could be used to sum up the state of things... ;)

Anyway, she agreed these issues needed to move up the food chain. Unfortunately for me this was a long weekend up here in the Great White North, and the fellow I needed to see also took the Friday off, so I had to wait until Tuesday for follow up.

So now it's Tuesday...nobody calls by late morning, I call them and get put through to the fellows voice mail. Nice detailed message left which concludes with a request for a prompt call back.

Waiting...waiting.... :confused:

4PM, my call is returned. The conversation goes pretty well, it's agreed that significant portions of cabinet work have to be rebuilt and someone will have to come out for a detailed review of what's wrong & missing...then comes the rub.. :mad:

3 of the 5 managers are currently on vacation ( not a big surprise this time of summer ) so guess what...nobody can come out until the sometime next week. :eek: This is not performance...

I state my displeasure with this timeline but basically get the message TFB...

So, I'm stuck waiting until next week before anything even gets reordered...

I'm calmer than I was last Thursday...the Crown Royal seems to be working... :D

Absolutely no offense intended to anyone here but..the concept of "neck down workers" is taking on new meaning in this project... ;)

Stay tuned...
 
Resident Loser

Resident Loser

Senior Audioholic
This probably belongs in...

...the steam vent but...

People don't care...or at least a lot of them don't...I have a theory(based on empirical evidence) that about 30% of the people in any company(and you could probably extrapolate that figure to include the whole world) actually work and get things done...the other 70% are useless blobs of protoplasm taking up space and using finite resources...they spend their time hiding behind phone menus and voicemail(which they seldom respond to). And workers...mindless automotons who go through the motions for the most part...and don't even talk about any "quality control"...we're all just gettin' screwed without any of the fun bits...

I've been trying to speak to a Sears(yeah, I know: first mistake) store manager(via 'phone) for the last two days...I get transfered from pillar to post, put on hold, disconnected so I call again...get transfered a few more times and get someone who sounds like they migh be able to help..."Is he expecting your call?" He!! no he's not and I'm not expecting this kind of shabby treatment from from a bunch of knuckle draggers!!! "Well, perhaps i can help" So after explaining my situation for yet the umpteenth time, I get put on hold and lo to my surprise it's Mr. Dialtone...Call back and start takin' names this time(which they are loathe to give) and finally get transferred to security(who I am told can page him)...P.S. He ain't in, be back tomorrow so call back...P.P.S. call back today, the SOB still ain't in...I'm goin' there Saturday so if you read anything about a madman at a Nassau county Sears on Sunday, you'll sorta' know who it is...

jimHJJ(...nobody cares or takes responsibility anymore...)
 
W

westcott

Audioholic General
One day of many in the Home Theater ongoing SAGA!

I am trying to remember when this project initially started and I would have to say at least three months ago. The plan was agreed upon by the wife and I that she would get a remodeled kitchen and living room and I got to discreetly include a home theater in the same room. I consider myself fairly proficient when it comes to home repairs, remodeling, and woodwork so I planned to do as much of the work as possible by myself. I have found that my father was right, if you truly want it done right, you have to do it yourself.

So, I retiled the utility room and the upstairs bathroom. No problem. I hired someone to recarpet the stairway an the landing at the top of the stairs and they did a great job. ( I neither had the tools or the skills to make this cost effective to do myself).

The kitchen received new counter surfaces and appliances. The wife is happy and the garbage disposer no longer leaks (had to buy a new one. It was cracked but I did not realize that until I found out that the counter people don't do plumbing and I was on my own to get the disposer,faucet, water filter, and the rest replumbed.)

We picked out a Vermont Maple laminate flooring for the entry hall, living room, dining room, family room, and the study. All on the first floor.

But, where was I going to run all my wiring? I lost many a sleepless night trying to find a solution. With 18' ceilings, wire runs in the attic were out of the question. Since all the 2"x4"'s to the ceilings were supporting members, drilling a 2" hole through the bottom of every one on two outside supporting walls was also out of the question. What about the baseboard area?

This too had its problems since their was a tile fireplace on one side and a double door entry to the study on the other side. This would not work either.

So........I decided that a shallow channel cut into the concrete foundation under the future maple laminate flooring would be the best solution. Now I have a circular saw and a diamond blade that could do the job, but I would need a hammer drill to remove the concrete from the channel after the initial slots were cut. I decided that I would have a concrete engineer come out and give me an estimate for the job and provide some critical advice as to the ramifications of makeing such a cut would or would not have. I do not mind saving money but hacking into the concrete foundation on a two story home is not to be taken lightly. I truly thought that I would sleep better nights if I hired a concrete expert to make this happen and okay my design.

The contractor assures me that the cuts are shallow and will not compromise the structural integrity of the foundation. I agreed with his assessment and his price of US$500 to cut the channels seemed very cost effective considering all the other alternative or added cable lengths. One channel 18' long, 3" wide, and 1\2" deep would work fine. Two other channels were cut for the surround speakers and to bring power to the center of the room. These were only 1\2" wide and the same depth. The contractor agreed to this price if I would prepare the room before hand by hanging plastic over the doorways and the landing to prevent the inevitable concrete dust from covering the entire home and its contents. This would be a disaster as far as the wife would be concerned so I pulled the carpets and baseboards, chalked center lines on the concrete where the channels were to be cut, and hung plastic over all the entrys to the room and the landing. I had it prepared two days ahead of time and was waiting for the "concrete experts" to arrive first thing in the morning. The plastic was hanging perfectly and sealed the room well.

Well, they do not show so I wait. I wait some more and then call. They are delayed and will be there after lunch. I get some work done from the house and eagerly await their arrival. Sure enough, they make it and proceed to drag all their gear into the living room. I hover as I size up the crew and make a gut call that I better keep as close an eye as possible on these guys because all just did not seem right.

I show them the chalk lines and discover that I am speaking more Spanish than they are speaking English but how hard can it be to cut the channels to the proper dimensions without the contractor?

The saws fire up and I quickly realize that the dust generated quickly forced me out of the room. Undaunted, I went outside and peered through the window into the room from the outside. I quickly realize that my perfectly sealed room is now unsealed due to the opening of the windows in my brief absence. I quickly run into the house to try to stop them so we can better secure the plastic, resigned to the fact that a fine film has already covered EVERYTHING in the rest of the home. They once again resume cutting and I once again bolt outside to peek through the now very dirty windows. I manage a glimpse only to see the circular saw blade dissappear into the foundation by over half its width. I bang on the glass, almost breaking it. I turn and run back into the house and the maze of plastic to inquire in very poor Spanish what he is doing. I reiterate the required depth and he adjusts the blade in my presence from the 3" he had interpreted from the contractors directions to the 1\2" needed to prevent structural compromises. I feel somewhat relieved and went over the dimensions on paper with him to make sure they understood.

The saws fire up again and since the first cut was down the centerline, I just thought it was going to be one of many cuts down the channel area so that it could be removed with a hammer drill. WRONG! They begin to cut three inches to the side of the center line. This time I get smart and run through the garage to grab a mask before trying to enter the room that now more resembles the inside of a flour bin than a habital family room. I yell stop and once again try to explain what I want but technical terms in spanish are lost on me and so I picked up the phone and called the general contractor. He showed up within 30 minutes and proceeded to speak in much better spanish to the two "craftsman". Fortunately, I understand spanish much better than I speak and quickly realize that even the contractor is having trouble explaining what needs to be done and how. After repeated attempts, he finally gets it straight.All the while, he can not understand why the channels have to be perfectly aligned since they are being covered anyway. I assure him that I have my reasons and they include hiding the wires behind a tv stand where they exit the wall. I am not sure who looked more confused at this point, him or his staff but being profiled for audio\video ideosyncracies is just part of the process and I took it in pretty good stride considering.

This story could go on for some time and I could try to relay to you how upset my wife was with me, the contractor, the "concrete experts", and the condition of the home after they left, but suffice it to say that my wife fully supports me and would choose me over any another contractor at any price.
 
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RJB

RJB

Audioholic
Home theatre saga...the end is in sight!

Well it's been a couple of months and things are finally coming together! :D

The cabinets were an absolute nightmare! ( see previous posts ).

They were finally installed, correctly for the most part, last week. That is 2 1/2 months after the job was started and 5 months since the order was originally placed. There are a couple of things that need fixing, the biggest one being the CD / DVD storage racks to the left & right of the TV. They are nowhere near strong enough to support the weight of the disks they are intended to store. The cabinet manufactured is rebuilding the interiors to a much beefier level.

We also ended up having a meeting with the general manager after sending a polite but serious letter to the company president regarding their customer service & quality control, or lack there of...:mad:

The end result after my wife was through with them? Looks like they will not be getting paid the last 10% hold back as compensation for our frustration and real out of pocket expenses as a result of the outrageous delays.

I let my wife deal with the negotiations, she does multi-million dollar international business deals in her Oil & Gas job so they never stood a chance...:eek: Besides, they couldn't really say FU to her while I was sitting there...;)

I'm waiting for the carpet guys to arrive while writing this so, hopefully, by this evening I'll be moving all the furniture & speakers out of my new basement office into their proper home...:D

I'll do all the baseboards & door casings in the next week or so and post pictures ASAP.

Wow, 3 years of work and I'm almost done. Blood, sweat, tears and lots of "blue air". If I had really known what I was getting myself into when I started this project I would have scared myself out of doing it myself!:eek:

On the plus side, it may have taken longer doing it myself but I saved a S&#@ load of money! My final cost is about 30K Canadian and that includes all the furniture & A/V equipment.

As a comparison, I had several quotes in the 70 - 90K range from large reputable contractors just to do the construction. It would have been a whole lot faster but I wouldn't have the satisfaction I do now, or the extra cash which we used to become mortgage free!! :D :cool:
 
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RJB said:
or the extra cash which we used to become mortgage free!!
Congrats! Many accountants, not to mention regular people, miss the incredible benefit of this oft-overlooked financial advantage. I think everyone should pay off their mortgages as quickly as possible - its incredibly freeing.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Tom Andry said:
The morals of the story:

1) Buying BlOSE, even if it was well intentioned and misinformed, is a HUGE red flag in any relationship.
2) Never, EVER, take the advice of any one person - especially if that person is a salesman - or has more piercings than sense.
3) Presents are to be loved and enjoyed - regardless of how much they suck.
4) No matter how bad a speaker is, it is better than no speaker - and later you can take it out back and burn it.
5) Much like eyeglasses, shoes, and all women’s clothing – buying the wrong size/shape/flavor audio equipment is a non-stop trip to the doghouse.
6) There is no female doghouse – it is the last male only location on the fricken planet.
7) Anyone that says they can/have put their female into a “doghouse” is either a liar or is going to end up on one of the more embarrassing episodes of the Jerry Springer show.
8) When you get to the doghouse – look up Takeereasy, he has a booth at the back. Sponsored by Sony…and Canadian Customs….and me.
Hey, Takeereasy, don't let Newm...er, Nomas getcha. First, judging from the above, it's easy to see he is a lonely man. (I'd guess married twice and now not...thus the Roberto Duran nick (Please don't hit me any more..."No mas!" ;) ) He deserves not our pity, and especially not our irritation. He needs an intevention of love from us.

How do I know? Cuz I know women. (I'm married to one, and I'd better get this right. :( ) Women can smell this kind of attitude if it's on a man. I'm guessing smell is the source...anyway they just seem to know this stuff. Maybe they sneak around and read our mail and forum posts at 3:00 a.m. Maybe it's the guilt on our faces after we've sheepishly said such things. I just dunno. BUT THEY KNOW. And just typing those words about women and dog houses and whatnot, Nomas, if he were married, would soon be whimpering around, averting his eyes from "THE LOOK", seeking solace in...in...in an internet forum or hobby or some such. And notice...he admits to no weakness...a sure sign that he has no spouse who would point out such things.

Take it to heart. We love you Nomas!

Now back to your regularly scheduled craziness.
 
Tom Andry

Tom Andry

Speaker of the House
rjbudz said:
And notice...he admits to no weakness...
Admits to no...I REVEL in my weaknesses. I roll around in them like the condescending chauvinistic beg-for-sex pig I am! You may think someone like me would be single (or chronically divorced) but not so. I'm happily married (if by happily you mean completely-and-totally-trapped-with-no-possibility-of-parole-until-I-get-a-decent-paying-job-so-she-doen't-have-to-pay-alimony) and will stay that way for the foreseeable future.

Why? Simple – I have no power in this relationship. A simple fact.

With an attitude like mine, I don’t even know what the outside of the doghouse LOOKS like! The smallest effort on her part, a small smile, a brush of the hand, food, garners her big returns. Yes, all you “well adjusted” and “financially stable” men think you have so much on me, but NAY says I! It is I who has the upper hand. In your relationships your women actually have to TRY. Mine can phone it in. That’s a big draw for a lot of women. Think about it.

By the way, if you are reading this honey…I’m sorry. I was just joking. No really, it was a joke. What? Back in the doghouse…but I just got out! No, no, I wasn’t sassing you. Yes honey. Whatever you say dear. Baby…I love you…baby? Are you there? Honey?

[sound of a door closing and locking]

Hey Takeereasy, you still here?!
 
RJB

RJB

Audioholic
Tom, it's the way things are here in the "brotherhood"...I'm not sure if it's the way it was supposed to be but I guess we'll have to get used to it.

Married or not ( I am happily married ), men will always be in the dog house for one reason or another, usually, though not always, for something we don't even understand! ;)

In my world, if I'm not in trouble for something, then I know I'm in trouble. :(

The up side however is that my new dog house is 13' X 32' and has room for all my toys. If I keep the bar fridge full stocked I could be there for days...:eek: :D

Oh. I forgot to say that my better half NEVER comes to these forums, thank goodness, my bruises heal slow enough as it is...;) ! I think she finds it all a little too esoteric for her taste...
 
M

MAX661

Audioholic
I have a funny story about my uncle:

He comes over to my house and after diner decides he wanted to watch a movie in my home theater, so I bring him down stairs and we watched Matrix Revolution. Him and his wife fell in love with the sound effects, bass and PQ so he tells me he is going to buy my "EXACT" theater. What he doesn't know is the huge deals I got on everything monster in my setup, and he also didn't know that I didn't buy it from Future shop.

So he goes out to buy his system and the salesman convinced him that the Bose Lifestyle 38 system at a cost of $4199.99 cdn is the best thing invented since the light bulb. He also buys the Monster AVS2000 and HTPS7000 at full retail which is like 5 grand more, not knowing that I got both of mine for around $1500. He also buys all Monster THX Ultra cables and speaker wire for about 1K more, for his TV set he gets a 5o'' pioneer plasma "nice TV" atleast.

After this he comes back to my house and asks me to come over to hook it all up for him. Here's were it gets funny, For 2 hours before I even hook it up for him I listen to him brag about how much better his system is then mine.

I looked at him and said "it's not even hooked up yet, wait and you'll wish you's have listened to me" He denies it and says I heard it at the store, it's killer.

So I finally go over and hook it all up for him, This is where I found out what he' had bought. After I am done we turn it on and play a movie. He hears it and looks like he is in "fake" love.

After the movie is done his Wife "my aunt" turns to him and says........

THIS SUCKS, and you paid $25 grand for this. Bring this all back and take Max out shopping with you, I thought we were trying to get something that sounds as nice as his.

But he is to proud, "I call it to dumb", So he says I like it better and it's my hard earned money so we are keeping it.


To this day I still laugh, everytime my mother goes over she says "you should have listened".

I guess it's because I am younger, to him I cant possibly be right.



MAX,
__________________
Sony KDSR60XBR1 1080p SXRD w/SU-GW12
Sony KDF60XS955 w/SU-GW12
Scientific Atlanta 8300HD
JVC Prog Scan DVD Player
Yamaha RX-Z9 {9.2 THX Ultra2}
Yamaha CDC-685 CD Player
Monster AVS2000 Voltage Stabilizer
Monster HTPS7000 PowerCenter
Def Tech BP7000sc Towers
Def Tech CLR3000 Center
Def Tech BPVX/P Rears
2 Velodyne CHT-15 Subwoofers
Sony RM-AV3000 Touchscreen Remote
Lutron Light Dimmer
Monster THX Wires
Xbox 360 {pre-order} = Cant wait
 
RJB

RJB

Audioholic
Yea, I can relate. I've been asked to help friends & relatives setup their home audio, visual and computer equipment more than once. Most folks will buy whatever the salesman says is the "biggest and best" without doing their own research...

Anytime I spend serious money I do all my homework first. Hell, I usually end up knowing more about the products that I am interested in than the sales people. But it's always fun to let them ramble on and then zap them with the tech stuff that they have no clue about...:D

As always though, there seems to be no shortage of people with money to burn on overpriced under performing gear...then they are too proud ( or ashamed ) to admit it.
 
CaliHwyPatrol

CaliHwyPatrol

Audioholic Chief
At work today (Circuit City), I came up to this guy who was looking at our Samsung 67" 1080p DLP and the conversation went as follows:

Me: "Pretty cool tv huh?"
Him: "Yeah."
Me: " How about taking it home?"
Him: " Oh, I've already got a big tv."
Me: "Oh, thats cool, but is it 1080p?"
Him: "Yeah."
Me: "Oh is that right? When did you get it?"
Him: "Ummm, about 6 months ago." :rolleyes:
Me: "Oh really? Well you have a nice day then..."

Some people... Why lie?

I only do that to people who look at that and our Sony 60" XBR because 99.9% of the time they have no intention of buying it, so I figure, what the heck, ask for the sale right off the bat... :rolleyes:

~Chuck
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I've got one.

I was A&Bsound (bigbox competition store, no commision) a while ago and I was demoing subwoofers and speakers and whatnot.

I know my way around the store, and how their system works. While I was listening ot some music a salesman and customer walked into the room.

He was looking at subwoofers, and this salesman showed him an energy and velodyne model. I can't remember the conversation exactly but it went something like this.

C for customer, S for saleman.

C: I'm looking for a subwoofer for my room
S: Ok we have these brand new energy and veoldyne models (note how he didn't ask for a budget, room size, etc etc)
C: Ok, the energy one is alot smaller then the velodyne.
S: Thats why the velodynes are better(more expensive too).
C: I saw some of the velodyne for cheaper at Futureshop.
S: Yes, but they have the lower end models. We have the SPL and DLSR series, while they have DPS and SPK series.(SPK...never heard of them :rolleyes: )

Its about this time I wanted to punch him in the face. When ever I'm in that room, I will give people advice and just say I work there, because most of the salesman are snakes.

SheepStar

This salesman thing needs to be fixed
 
CaliHwyPatrol

CaliHwyPatrol

Audioholic Chief
Best Buy is right across the street for my store so I go in there all the time and play stupid and see what they try and get away with. There is a Magnolia close by as well and surpisingly, even though they push the sale, they still are pretty honest about their products.

That is kind of interesing because BB is non-commissioned and Magnolia is... You would think their sales process would be the other way around!

~Chuck
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Futureshop is commissioned. Isn't that best buy too?



SheepStar
 
L

lbjazz

Audioholic Intern
Sheep said:
Futureshop is commissioned. Isn't that best buy too?



SheepStar
Best Buy is not commissioned. The problem (I know because I work there) is the way we're trained. We're not trained to lie, we're just never told the truth in the first place. I could go on for days, but keep in mind that we're not all used car salesmen. Most of the time when a customer tells me what they need, we don't have anything of quality that gives them what they want. Telling them that all we have is crap and they should go somewhere else (not that there's anywhere else to go in my area and even if there was 97 % of people wont be willing to pay that much) would just be a good way for me to loose my job (that would suck). I'm in the same boat as a high end dealer who also actually knows what the hell he is talking about. If someone walks in, says what they want, and he doesn't have it, he doesn't just turn them away. He shows them what he does have and how much better it is compared to the other stuff he is selling. If someone isn't going to do the research before they come in then they probably won't ever know the difference. Few salesmen are in the position to give people the best. All are in the position to make people happy with their purchase. Lets face it, it's not about how good your gear is, its about being happy with it.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
well put lbjazz,


If I had a job in there, I would be truthful. I wouldn't push the most expensive stuff etc etc. Its good to see you try to do the right thing.


SheepStar
 
B

Babyface

Enthusiast
I began getting into home audio in high school, roughly 1995-ish, when I graduated I went looking for a part time job as a home audio salesmen. Well unfortunately, despite having plaenty of product knowledge, none of the local audio shops would hire me for anything other than a stocker.

So I went and got a job working in the home theater department at best buy. It sucked, this was even before they sold Klipsch, but I gave me an opportunity to educate people. I took a stack of business cards from my friend who worked at a local high end shop. Every person who came in asking for a bose systems I handed them a card and told them not to waste their money. Well, management didn't take to kindly to me turning away thousands of dollars in sales, but then again, they decided not to put employees on commision.

Anyway, one night I was moving one of the mini fork lift things or something, and ran it stright into the bose display. It was an accident, but I felt good about it for some strange reason, as the bose cubes rattled from the the tops and smashed on the ground. Of course I had to pick them all up and put themk back together, getting a great look at how craptastic they are. My boss was so mad, but I reassured him that people would buy them no matter what becuase A) The bose display is no where near the rest of the speakers and B) People buy it becuase of the name anyway. Well it wasn't too much longer before I got fired, but it was fun.
 
fatroz

fatroz

Audioholic Intern
DVD player and my parents

So, two or three years ago my brother, sister and I decide its time for my parents to get in the 21st century and get a DVD player. We all chip in and get them one for Christmas. My mother opens the present and looks at it with either confusion or that fake "happy smile, why do I need this when I have a VCR, thanks for the x-mas present" look. I tell her what it is and how much better it is than her VCR. So about six months later I ask her how she likes her DVD player. She says "It's nice, but I still really like my VCR." I just laughed to myself. Some day she'll get it. Hopefully by now she has.
 
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P

Paragon Pro

Enthusiast
Amen!!!

Spiffyfast said:
Went to Best Buy a few weeks ago with my brother who was looking to get a new surround sound system. I tried to talk him out of Best Buy, but we've shopped there for years anyways, he's looking at the Bose system for about 20 min, and a salesman comes up. I'm 21, he had to be about 16 and starts rambling about how this is the best set up they have to offer and money can buy. It was like 3 grand and it didnt sound much better than a 300 dollar sony htib that I had. I walk both of them over to the Klipsch section and turn it on, I think that system was about half the price all together, needless to say, the salesman says, If you have any more questions I'll be around, and he walked off, my brother went with the Klipsch system and couldnt be happier. Best Buy, when will you learn, the most expensive doesn't make it the best..
As a custom integration company, we love Bose. It's a great acronym to help us educate and offer our customers quality, affordable equipment: BOSE
B-uy
O-ther
S-ound
E-quipment
Thanks for calling out Best Buy and their untrained staff.
 
P

Paragon Pro

Enthusiast
lbjazz said:
Best Buy is not commissioned. The problem (I know because I work there) is the way we're trained. We're not trained to lie, we're just never told the truth in the first place. I could go on for days, but keep in mind that we're not all used car salesmen. Most of the time when a customer tells me what they need, we don't have anything of quality that gives them what they want. Telling them that all we have is crap and they should go somewhere else (not that there's anywhere else to go in my area and even if there was 97 % of people wont be willing to pay that much) would just be a good way for me to loose my job (that would suck). I'm in the same boat as a high end dealer who also actually knows what the hell he is talking about. If someone walks in, says what they want, and he doesn't have it, he doesn't just turn them away. He shows them what he does have and how much better it is compared to the other stuff he is selling. If someone isn't going to do the research before they come in then they probably won't ever know the difference. Few salesmen are in the position to give people the best. All are in the position to make people happy with their purchase. Lets face it, it's not about how good your gear is, its about being happy with it.
I am a high-end dealer and you speak the truth. It's imposible to carry everything for everyone. I even sold cars for a while (early in life-HATED IT!) and with a 1000 car inventory, we didn't have half the stuff people wanted. The attention span of customers is so short, they never take the time to do some homework and figure out what they "NEED," and not just rattle off a few buzz words they read in a magazine article. HDTV, Surround Sound, Automation; good words but the shoppers don't even know what "they" are! It's nice to hear some info from the BB sales side of things. Good to know we are all in the same boat
:)
 

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