A

Antonyr17

Enthusiast
Hi Everyone.
Firstly I just want to state. I’m not a enthusiast I have little understanding around Home theatre.
but Audioholics have helped me to understand the parameters and guided my through my limited journey.
My setup a refer to it as a surround sound system because it’s not a detracted home theatre room.
It’s more if a entertainment area and have a feeling it similar shape room to Genes old setup with one side open to kitchen and dining.
Current setup as follows.
Sony X9000 85inch great tv for the price.
B&W htm71 centre large
B&W 705 s2 fronts bi-amped as I use this for music when it party time. And please don’t tell bianped is a waste of time because I can tell the difference in stereo mode.
B&W 382 rears in ceiling to give a more clean affect.
JL E110 x 2 front right and rear left off centre.
marantz 6014
Marantz 7025 bi-amped to run centre.
My big questions is I feel as if my front stage isn’t deep enough for voices sound very bright and and dialog feels lost.
I have set all speakers to 75db.
I’ve changed the curve.
everything is set as per Genes advice. Can anyone assist with some areas or advice.
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic General
A picture of your front stage or at least a description of the room and placement would help a lot.

Usually you want the center set as small just like every other speaker.
Is the brightness and dialogue problems on everything?
Have you tried bumping the center a dB or two?
Do you use audyssey or dynamic EQ or dynamic volume?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
A

Antonyr17

Enthusiast
Thanks for the reply.

Ive done everything you have noted. Ive brought the curve editor app adjusted to suit
It just doesn’t have that growl say when Vin Diesel is talking you get that husky full depth. The room is perfect size of the RHS wasn’t open.
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic General
How is it if you turn audyssey off? (And bump the subs 3 to 6dB)
Im not sure the custom curve is used when audyssey is ‘flat’ but i dont really know. Have you tried ‘reference’?
Cinema EQ off might be worth a try but depends on your preference.

If you can raise the center a little more that might help also as well as getting the right and left speakers a little more away from the wall behind and side walls. They might be more out in the air than what it looks like in the picture but they do look like they could use some air.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic General
Also what speaker ‘size’ and crossovers do you use?
(And make sure you dont use direct or pure direct sound modes)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
A

Antonyr17

Enthusiast
Thanks for the advice.
All speakers are set to small.80hz cross over with subwoofer CR turned off.
Your going to laugh. I’ve been googling how to turn audessy how do you do it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Where you have the Audyssey flat choice, reference and off are other choices....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi Everyone.
Firstly I just want to state. I’m not a enthusiast I have little understanding around Home theatre.
but Audioholics have helped me to understand the parameters and guided my through my limited journey.
My setup a refer to it as a surround sound system because it’s not a detracted home theatre room.
It’s more if a entertainment area and have a feeling it similar shape room to Genes old setup with one side open to kitchen and dining.
Current setup as follows.
Sony X9000 85inch great tv for the price.
B&W htm71 centre large
B&W 705 s2 fronts bi-amped as I use this for music when it party time. And please don’t tell bianped is a waste of time because I can tell the difference in stereo mode.
B&W 382 rears in ceiling to give a more clean affect.
JL E110 x 2 front right and rear left off centre.
marantz 6014
Marantz 7025 bi-amped to run centre.
My big questions is I feel as if my front stage isn’t deep enough for voices sound very bright and and dialog feels lost.
I have set all speakers to 75db.
I’ve changed the curve.
everything is set as per Genes advice. Can anyone assist with some areas or advice.
You may hear an improvement is your listening position was centered on the speakers and TV- being closer to one side causes cancellations that aren't easy and, generally, impossible to correct. You could work with the speaker distance settings if they're set to .1 foot increments, but speaker placement makes a huge difference. Also, having one speaker next to a wall and the other next to an opening matters too, although the sound from the right front will be affected by the sofa, so that difference will be less than if the difference in distance from the speakers to your ears isn't countered by the settings in the receiver.

I don't know why you're bi-amping the center channel- you don't need to do that.

Front stage depth (if you mean, the sound seems to come from behind the plane of the front speakers) requires the speakers to be in the 'best' position and that requires experimentation.

Move your seat to the center and listen- you should hear an improvement.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I don't know why you're bi-amping the center channel- you don't need to do that.
Are there avrs or pre-pros that have passive bi-amping for more than L/R speakers? I saw he had just the L/R setup that way in any case.

In general I'd try to pull the L/R speakers more out in the room, maybe even just rearrange the room :)
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
Get yourself a USB mic like a UMIK-1, download REW and measure your room so you can get a real idea of what’s happening with Audyssey on as well as off. In addition you could try using Rat Buddy which allows you to manually insert cut and boost to specific frequencies which is far easier than drawing it on your phone or tablet with your finger. I believe you’re experiencing expectation bias from your passive bi-amping setup but that’s just my two cents, my LCR’s are all able to be passively bi-amped and even using four Parasound HCA-1000’s it certainly doesn’t sound better by any means but that’s subjective. These guys are correct in setting your center to small, that specific B&W speaker doesn’t have the capability to have any meaningful output into the lower frequencies without creating distortion. You’ll be much better served having your subwoofer play back those frequencies.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Are there avrs or pre-pros that have passive bi-amping for more than L/R speakers? I saw he had just the L/R setup that way in any case.

In general I'd try to pull the L/R speakers more out in the room, maybe even just rearrange the room :)
I was going to mention bringing them out but sometimes, that's just not feasible. Mine are a couple of feet away, but I'm not moving them just to make someone happy and it took a while to find their sweet spots. That said, I haven't been motivated to move them since I re-positioned them.

I saw "Marantz 7025 bi-amped to run centre."- that's what I was referring to (the line above "My big questions....").
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I was going to mention bringing them out but sometimes, that's just not feasible. Mine are a couple of feet away, but I'm not moving them just to make someone happy and it took a while to find their sweet spots. That said, I haven't been motivated to move them since I re-positioned them.

I saw "Marantz 7025 bi-amped to run centre."- that's what I was referring to (the line above "My big questions....").
They're just stuffed into the corners which looks like bringing them out could be an improvement, but might need to rearrange furniture for best results....

Ah, missed that, up above where he mentions L/R he specifies the passive bi-amping thing there, see now the thing about the marantz power amp and the center.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
They're just stuffed into the corners which looks like bringing them out could be an improvement, but might need to rearrange furniture for best results....

Ah, missed that, up above where he mentions L/R he specifies the passive bi-amping thing there, see now the thing about the marantz power amp and the center.
I think it would sound better if they were farther from the side walls - farther from the front wall would need to be tested. Mine are in front of a wall that was originally about 11' wide, until I removed most of the side wall and moved the door opening back- now, there's a few feet between the left speaker & the adjacent wall, 5' between the right speaker & the nearest wall. The left side has a panel for the 1st reflections and the right doesn't need one because of the fact that the first reflection doesn't happen in the same way because of the angle/distance and due to the obstructed path. My TV is centered between the speakers and my room really isn't good for a surround system, so it's stereo and the dialog comes from dead center- I'm surprised by how natural peoples' voices sound and if I know someone on TV, radio or on a recording, it can sound like they're in the room. That didn't happen to this degree until I spent the time re-positioning my speakers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think it would sound better if they were farther from the side walls - farther from the front wall would need to be tested. Mine are in front of a wall that was originally about 11' wide, until I removed most of the side wall and moved the door opening back- now, there's a few feet between the left speaker & the adjacent wall, 5' between the right speaker & the nearest wall. The left side has a panel for the 1st reflections and the right doesn't need one because of the fact that the first reflection doesn't happen in the same way because of the angle/distance and due to the obstructed path. My TV is centered between the speakers and my room really isn't good for a surround system, so it's stereo and the dialog comes from dead center- I'm surprised by how natural peoples' voices sound and if I know someone on TV, radio or on a recording, it can sound like they're in the room. That didn't happen to this degree until I spent the time re-positioning my speakers.
Yes pulling both away from side and front wall is what I meant. I have a similar situation with a wall on one side and a short one with opening on the other, but I pull my speaker out beyond the bit of short wall. Would probably take some experimentation in any case to find ideal position for that room/seating setup, including experimenting with various toe-in angles.
 
A

Antonyr17

Enthusiast
thanks everyone for your comments.
I’ve carried out a few of comments I’ll come back to everyone in time. Much appreciated.
Maybe I’m just chasing something that isn’t possible.
music in 2 channel sounds amazing the sound stage is wide and clear and defined.It sounds like the centre is on but it isn’t.

cheers Ant
Melbournelockdownalmostover264days
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
thanks everyone for your comments.
I’ve carried out a few of comments I’ll come back to everyone in time. Much appreciated.
Maybe I’m just chasing something that isn’t possible.
music in 2 channel sounds amazing the sound stage is wide and clear and defined.It sounds like the centre is on but it isn’t.

cheers Ant
Melbournelockdownalmostover264days
I would download an app for a phone that measures frequency response- it's called RTA (Real Time Analyzer) and several free ones are available in app stores. You can go into the speaker setup menu of your AVR and when it checks the level, it sends pink noise through the speakers. As it goes from the first front speaker, it should change to the center channel- watch the response for flatness and smoothness, comparing the three front for their response. If the variations are extreme, you may see that the center channel has some frequencies that are well below the bass and midbass. If that's the case, you can manually adjust them so the sound is the way you want. If you can take photos or screen shots of the response for each speakers, post them so we can see what's happening.

If you have a laptop computer, you can download RoomEQ Wizard, but it takes a bit of time to learn- the phone app has a pretty quick learning curve.
 
A

Antonyr17

Enthusiast
I would download an app for a phone that measures frequency response- it's called RTA (Real Time Analyzer) and several free ones are available in app stores. You can go into the speaker setup menu of your AVR and when it checks the level, it sends pink noise through the speakers. As it goes from the first front speaker, it should change to the center channel- watch the response for flatness and smoothness, comparing the three front for their response. If the variations are extreme, you may see that the center channel has some frequencies that are well below the bass and midbass. If that's the case, you can manually adjust them so the sound is the way you want. If you can take photos or screen shots of the response for each speakers, post them so we can see what's happening.

If you have a laptop computer, you can download RoomEQ Wizard, but it takes a bit of time to learn- the phone app has a pretty quick learning curve.
Thank you will give it a go.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I’ve attached setting for review.
If you played with the curve using the App, be sure to send it to the AVR and make sure it is in effect. If you select the "flat" curve on the AVR, then your custom curve will not be used. So if you want to try different customized target curve, stick with the "Reference" curve.

See the last paragraph of this post:
(1) The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips) | Audioholics Home Theater Forums

For speaker placement, have you tried pulling the left and right speakers away from the side walls and back wall by at least 6 to 8 inches if not 1 to 1.5 ft. It looks like you have the room to do that. Also, the center speakers should really be elevated closer to your ear level.
 
Last edited:
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