MacManNM Banned Mar 21, 2005 1,649 0 0 56 Albuquerque NM Oct 27, 2005 #1 Do you think the ability of a speaker to produce a flat frequency response curve (measured) illustrates a speaker’s ability to reproduce music more accurately? IE, one that is flatter across the spectrum is going to sound better? Edit: Assume that distortion and phase measurements are of the same quality. This is meant to be Speaker A(flat) VS Speaker B (not flat) Last edited: Oct 27, 2005
Do you think the ability of a speaker to produce a flat frequency response curve (measured) illustrates a speaker’s ability to reproduce music more accurately? IE, one that is flatter across the spectrum is going to sound better? Edit: Assume that distortion and phase measurements are of the same quality. This is meant to be Speaker A(flat) VS Speaker B (not flat)
mulester7 Audioholic Samurai Apr 9, 2005 2,682 0 63 77 North Little Rock, Arkansas Oct 27, 2005 #2 MacManNM said: Do you think the ability of a speaker to produce a flat frequency response curve (measured) illustrates a speaker’s ability to reproduce music more accurately? IE, one that is flatter across the spectrum is going to sound better? Click to expand... .....good topic, Mac, and ideally, I would say yes, flat is better, but I have heard the comment a few times that a perfectly flat +/- "0" db speaker is not only impossible to construct/tune, but would not have the sound quality we desire....what you think?......
MacManNM said: Do you think the ability of a speaker to produce a flat frequency response curve (measured) illustrates a speaker’s ability to reproduce music more accurately? IE, one that is flatter across the spectrum is going to sound better? Click to expand... .....good topic, Mac, and ideally, I would say yes, flat is better, but I have heard the comment a few times that a perfectly flat +/- "0" db speaker is not only impossible to construct/tune, but would not have the sound quality we desire....what you think?......
jcPanny Audioholic Ninja May 6, 2005 3,830 0 63 Oct 27, 2005 #3 Flat frequency response . . . On Axis, Off Axis, or both?
MacManNM Banned Mar 21, 2005 1,649 0 0 56 Albuquerque NM Oct 27, 2005 #4 on axis measurement Mule, I want to hear a few opinions then I'll post some findings and opinions of my own.
on axis measurement Mule, I want to hear a few opinions then I'll post some findings and opinions of my own.
mulester7 Audioholic Samurai Apr 9, 2005 2,682 0 63 77 North Little Rock, Arkansas Oct 27, 2005 #5 MacManNM said: on axis measurement Mule, I want to hear a few opinions then I'll post some findings and opinions of my own. Click to expand... .....currently experiencing baited-breath in anticipation, Mac.......
MacManNM said: on axis measurement Mule, I want to hear a few opinions then I'll post some findings and opinions of my own. Click to expand... .....currently experiencing baited-breath in anticipation, Mac.......
Francious70 Senior Audioholic Sep 8, 2004 509 0 0 41 Tennessee Oct 27, 2005 #6 Frequency response dosen't mean jack if the distortion measurements are high. Also that speaker the plays perfectly flat will sound like poo once it's put in a room. You want a speaker who'se FR plays well with your room modes.
Frequency response dosen't mean jack if the distortion measurements are high. Also that speaker the plays perfectly flat will sound like poo once it's put in a room. You want a speaker who'se FR plays well with your room modes.
MacManNM Banned Mar 21, 2005 1,649 0 0 56 Albuquerque NM Oct 27, 2005 #7 Francious70 said: Frequency response dosen't mean jack if the distortion measurements are high. Also that speaker the plays perfectly flat will sound like poo once it's put in a room. You want a speaker who'se FR plays well with your room modes. Click to expand... First off, if a speaker measures flat Im making the assumption that it is a good quality unit and the distortion is low. By your way of thinking you would have to test every speaker you were thinking in your room. That is not practical. Besides, most modes excited are from the bass notes, and we have subs running there.
Francious70 said: Frequency response dosen't mean jack if the distortion measurements are high. Also that speaker the plays perfectly flat will sound like poo once it's put in a room. You want a speaker who'se FR plays well with your room modes. Click to expand... First off, if a speaker measures flat Im making the assumption that it is a good quality unit and the distortion is low. By your way of thinking you would have to test every speaker you were thinking in your room. That is not practical. Besides, most modes excited are from the bass notes, and we have subs running there.
jaxvon Audioholic Ninja Feb 17, 2004 4,192 0 0 39 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Oct 27, 2005 #8 Yes, a high quality speaker will have a flat response, but that is only one factor of many. Obviously distortion comes in, as do many other paramters, so ONLY frequency response is not indicative of a quality speaker. But in my book it is necessary for a speaker to be considered "high fidelity" in the most straightforward meaning.
Yes, a high quality speaker will have a flat response, but that is only one factor of many. Obviously distortion comes in, as do many other paramters, so ONLY frequency response is not indicative of a quality speaker. But in my book it is necessary for a speaker to be considered "high fidelity" in the most straightforward meaning.
j_garcia Audioholic Jedi Jul 11, 2005 32,531 0 113 Oct 27, 2005 #9 Flat response does not guarantee it will sound good to everyone.
MacManNM Banned Mar 21, 2005 1,649 0 0 56 Albuquerque NM Oct 27, 2005 #10 I edited my first post, i was trying to get the feel for a comparison flat unit VS one with say +-7db in response from 30Hz-20kHz
I edited my first post, i was trying to get the feel for a comparison flat unit VS one with say +-7db in response from 30Hz-20kHz
Buckle-meister Audioholic Field Marshall May 23, 2005 1,743 0 0 51 London (as good as) Oct 27, 2005 #11 Flat is synonymous with accurate All things being equal, i.e. room acoustics and personal preferences etc dismissed as contributing factors, I don't see how anyone could argue that a flat speaker wouldn't reproduce sound more accurately than a non-flat speaker. Regards EDIT: This must be a trick question. If one speaker reproduces a full-range frequency sweep at the same SPL as the signal it was fed, and another reproduces it +-7dB, the conclusion is irrefutable. That's why it must be a trick question! What have you got up your sleeve MacManNM?! Last edited: Oct 27, 2005
Flat is synonymous with accurate All things being equal, i.e. room acoustics and personal preferences etc dismissed as contributing factors, I don't see how anyone could argue that a flat speaker wouldn't reproduce sound more accurately than a non-flat speaker. Regards EDIT: This must be a trick question. If one speaker reproduces a full-range frequency sweep at the same SPL as the signal it was fed, and another reproduces it +-7dB, the conclusion is irrefutable. That's why it must be a trick question! What have you got up your sleeve MacManNM?!
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Oct 27, 2005 #12 There is alot more to a speaker than a simple frequency response measurement. Such as: On/off Axis Polar Response Frequency Response Uniformity at all power levels (ie. compression) Distortion performance variance between each speaker pair transient response impedance/phase to determine how it will work with various amplifiers, etc we will be publishing a loudspeaker measurements document shortly that will detail this and also govern our objective portions of future loudspeaker reviews.
There is alot more to a speaker than a simple frequency response measurement. Such as: On/off Axis Polar Response Frequency Response Uniformity at all power levels (ie. compression) Distortion performance variance between each speaker pair transient response impedance/phase to determine how it will work with various amplifiers, etc we will be publishing a loudspeaker measurements document shortly that will detail this and also govern our objective portions of future loudspeaker reviews.
M miklorsmith Full Audioholic Sep 8, 2004 309 0 0 Oct 27, 2005 #13 Good question! Not to me. I find most speakers with "flat response" to sound boring. My Gallo Acoustics Ref. 3 speakers had reasonably flat frequency response but could not track dynamic swings well. I should say they did this like most (all) conventional multi-ways I've heard. Then, I built some homemade Fostex BR boxes that had a response curve that would look like the Himilayas. They didn't do some music at all (rock), but with jazz and vocals they were utterly captivating. Fast as hell and the tiniest nuances lost on most speakers were utterly clear. My current speakers (Zu Definitions) are very efficient, have no XO elements from 40 hz to 12 khz, and are hugely dynamic. And, they're reasonably flat in their response (subjective, not measured). Both elements are important (as are many others). But, for me flat response isn't nearly as important as dynamic punch. Certainly no response graph can guarantee a good-sounding speaker.
Good question! Not to me. I find most speakers with "flat response" to sound boring. My Gallo Acoustics Ref. 3 speakers had reasonably flat frequency response but could not track dynamic swings well. I should say they did this like most (all) conventional multi-ways I've heard. Then, I built some homemade Fostex BR boxes that had a response curve that would look like the Himilayas. They didn't do some music at all (rock), but with jazz and vocals they were utterly captivating. Fast as hell and the tiniest nuances lost on most speakers were utterly clear. My current speakers (Zu Definitions) are very efficient, have no XO elements from 40 hz to 12 khz, and are hugely dynamic. And, they're reasonably flat in their response (subjective, not measured). Both elements are important (as are many others). But, for me flat response isn't nearly as important as dynamic punch. Certainly no response graph can guarantee a good-sounding speaker.
MacManNM Banned Mar 21, 2005 1,649 0 0 56 Albuquerque NM Oct 27, 2005 #14 gene said: There is alot more to a speaker than a simple frequency response measurement. Such as: On/off Axis Polar Response Frequency Response Uniformity at all power levels (ie. compression) Distortion performance variance between each speaker pair transient response impedance/phase to determine how it will work with various amplifiers, etc we will be publishing a loudspeaker measurements document shortly that will detail this and also govern our objective portions of future loudspeaker reviews. Click to expand... Again, see the edit, assuming all other things being relatively equal, which is going to sound better?
gene said: There is alot more to a speaker than a simple frequency response measurement. Such as: On/off Axis Polar Response Frequency Response Uniformity at all power levels (ie. compression) Distortion performance variance between each speaker pair transient response impedance/phase to determine how it will work with various amplifiers, etc we will be publishing a loudspeaker measurements document shortly that will detail this and also govern our objective portions of future loudspeaker reviews. Click to expand... Again, see the edit, assuming all other things being relatively equal, which is going to sound better?
B bpape Audioholic Chief Jan 31, 2005 944 0 43 Eureka, MO (St. Louis) www.sensiblesoundsolutions.com Oct 27, 2005 #15 As has been stated, flat frequency response is important - but not the only thing that matters in a speaker's ability to accurately reproduce music. Distortion, xover phase issues, cabinet refraction, etc. also play a part. Now, is a speaker that is +/-1 or 2db from 32Hz to 15kHz and down significantly outside those 'worse' than a speaker that is +/-3 from 20-20kHz? Maybe, maybe not. What are you listening to? How good is your hearing at the extremes? What is the room like?
As has been stated, flat frequency response is important - but not the only thing that matters in a speaker's ability to accurately reproduce music. Distortion, xover phase issues, cabinet refraction, etc. also play a part. Now, is a speaker that is +/-1 or 2db from 32Hz to 15kHz and down significantly outside those 'worse' than a speaker that is +/-3 from 20-20kHz? Maybe, maybe not. What are you listening to? How good is your hearing at the extremes? What is the room like?
MacManNM Banned Mar 21, 2005 1,649 0 0 56 Albuquerque NM Oct 27, 2005 #16 Again all other things being equal speaker 1: Or speaker 2:
jaxvon Audioholic Ninja Feb 17, 2004 4,192 0 0 39 University of Michigan, Ann Arbor Oct 27, 2005 #17 I'd say it would be totally dependent on my listening preferences then. If I were a recording engineer, I'd probably want Speaker 2, but for pleasure listening speaker 1 might just sound magical. Until I listened to them, there's no way for me to tell.
I'd say it would be totally dependent on my listening preferences then. If I were a recording engineer, I'd probably want Speaker 2, but for pleasure listening speaker 1 might just sound magical. Until I listened to them, there's no way for me to tell.
Buckle-meister Audioholic Field Marshall May 23, 2005 1,743 0 0 51 London (as good as) Oct 27, 2005 #18 MacManNM said: ...which is going to sound better? Click to expand... Not fair! You just can't go around asking such things MacManNM! Clearly, what sounds good to one person sounds awful to another. Is the question 'accuracy' (as I thought), or 'preference'? Regards
MacManNM said: ...which is going to sound better? Click to expand... Not fair! You just can't go around asking such things MacManNM! Clearly, what sounds good to one person sounds awful to another. Is the question 'accuracy' (as I thought), or 'preference'? Regards
MacManNM Banned Mar 21, 2005 1,649 0 0 56 Albuquerque NM Oct 27, 2005 #19 Buckle-meister said: Not fair! You just can't go around asking such things MacManNM! Clearly, what sounds good to one person sounds awful to another. Is the question 'accuracy' (as I thought), or 'preference'? Regards Click to expand... Id say accuracy
Buckle-meister said: Not fair! You just can't go around asking such things MacManNM! Clearly, what sounds good to one person sounds awful to another. Is the question 'accuracy' (as I thought), or 'preference'? Regards Click to expand... Id say accuracy
B buffethead1984 Banned Oct 27, 2005 9 0 0 Oct 27, 2005 #20 MacManNM said: Again all other things being equal speaker 1: Or speaker 2: Click to expand... WOW speaker 1 looks like its not that good, no bass response, the 3db point is around 55 Hz, off axis response isn't going to be affected down there!
MacManNM said: Again all other things being equal speaker 1: Or speaker 2: Click to expand... WOW speaker 1 looks like its not that good, no bass response, the 3db point is around 55 Hz, off axis response isn't going to be affected down there!
