Found a CL ad for Ascend 5.0 set and HSU MK3. Thoughts?

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hizzaah

Full Audioholic
It doesn't matter where you set the phase switch if you are using the Denon's Audyssey. Audyssey will set that up for you, so you might as well have it set to zero.

If you are plugging both ports, it doesn't matter too much which mode you set the sub in. I would set it to 2 ports open mode in that configuration, since you are not going to get deep bass either way, so there isn't any point in having the sub try to dig low, it will just be pushing itself for no reason.

As far as the power switch goes, just leave it on. Hsu only provides an auto mode because it makes people feel better about having it. In reality, the sub does not consume less power when in standby on auto. It is a pointless feature that is only there due to customer demand, but it serves no real purpose.

For the crossover, set it to 'out', and run Audyssey. Let the Denon take care of the crossover. It sounds like you haven't run Audyssey yet, it will benefit you to do so. Hopefully the guy who sold you the receiver remembered to give you the microphone that came with it.

I wouldn't worry about glue around the fuse.
I'm still using my Onkyo receiver instead of the 1909 he gave me. I thought my receiver had better specs than the Denon..? He said the Denon has a bad hdmi port so he included a 2 port manual switch. It only would have 3 ports (i have 4 devices hooked up) and I'd have to get up and switch it between 2 lol.

I'll switch it back then. What type of source material would even push down that low? I played a frequency test earlier today and it went down to ~20Hz if I remember correctly.

Since I've mostly decided to not use the sub at night, I'd rather it be on auto because it changes the color I the light on the back from green (on) to red (standby) I'm kinda colorblind and the green smacks me in the face whereas I don't really even see the red.

Audyssey was the first thing I ran after plugging all the speakers in.. I bumped up the center a tad after though. The crossover was already set to out, I just wanted to be sure. And he did give me the setup mic for the Denon.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Some movies do dig below 20 hz, but very little music does. Here is a list of some very bass heavy movies, and there are waterfalls there where you can see which ones get to infrasonic bass.

Remember that if you ever want to properly run the VTF3 in maximum extension mode to hear some really low bass, either the turbo must be on or one port must be plugged. If the subwoofer is set to maximum extension mode and the ports are open with no turbo on, the woofer has potential to bottom out because the driver won't be operating under the expected air resistance. If the driver bottoms out frequently enough or hard enough, it can destroy itself. The replacement would probably be something like $150 to $200.

Another thing, you can just cover the on switch light with some electrical tape if it bothers you.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Floor causes the subwoofer to vibrate not the other way around, all the rattling and shaking in my home is from sheer sonic (air movement) output of the subs. If anything the floor is what causes the sub to vibrate, if the sub is well braced and damped you will not have a problem. Anti Gramma....;)
 
H

hizzaah

Full Audioholic
Some movies do dig below 20 hz, but very little music does. Here is a list of some very bass heavy movies, and there are waterfalls there where you can see which ones get to infrasonic bass.

Remember that if you ever want to properly run the VTF3 in maximum extension mode to hear some really low bass, either the turbo must be on or one port must be plugged. If the subwoofer is set to maximum extension mode and the ports are open with no turbo on, the woofer has potential to bottom out because the driver won't be operating under the expected air resistance. If the driver bottoms out frequently enough or hard enough, it can destroy itself. The replacement would probably be something like $150 to $200.

Another thing, you can just cover the on switch light with some electrical tape if it bothers you.
Cool, I'll check out that list..

So which setting do I use if I've got both blocked then? Just gonna leave it on max out 25Hz..

It occurred to me that I could do that after I posted. That's what I did for my wireless router.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Floor causes the subwoofer to vibrate not the other way around, all the rattling and shaking in my home is from sheer sonic (air movement) output of the subs. If anything the floor is what causes the sub to vibrate, if the sub is well braced and damped you will not have a problem. Anti Gramma....;)
Congrat's on the 1,000th post, General.

Outside of FR, the real brainiacs aren't chiming in on this dead horse of a topic but ... always the but ... it has been pointed out to me that subs with a dual opposed design do NOT benefit from decoupling. There's cancellation going on there. FR might have mentioned that but my ADD will prevent me from ever knowing.

I just wanted to point out that decoupling 'changes' the sound for the better. It's not going to stop sound transmission from air to structure but it keeps the sub to structure sound from interfering with what the sub is putting into the air.

If you could drop by I could give a demonstration of this by stirring my coffee with the cup 'on' the kitchen counter and 'off' the kitchen counter. Drop by anytime. I'll put on a fresh pot. Hearing is believing. We'll get a DBT going. :D
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
So I went ahead and plugged both ports with rolled up towels, and put the sub on top of one of those UHaul utility blanket (folded to be ~4 inches thick). It's hard to say if it'll make a difference for my neighbor or not as he isn't home currently, but the bass sounds tighter to me now.
Why would you plug the ports? Your sub is engineered for a ported design not a sealed one.
 
H

hizzaah

Full Audioholic
Why would you plug the ports? Your sub is engineered for a ported design not a sealed one.
Because a few pages back (quoted below) it was suggested that I plug both ports...? Should I not do this then?

Hizzah, the Hsu test CD, especially that first track, has some very strong 16 hz pipe organ notes in it. It won't sound loud because human hearing isn't very sensitive at that low of a frequency, but it can still be a strong sound in how it affects stuff around it. If you need to reduce the VTF3's ability to play deep bass entirely, one trick is to plug both ports. If you have the foam port plug, use it in one port, and then take a towel, roll it up, and fit it tightly in the other port so that no air can escape. This will dramatically reduce the subs output from the high 30 hz region on down. On the positive side, this might tighten up the bass a bit as there will be no port induced overhang or group delay.
If you sit against the shared wall, than maybe it won't help that much if you place the sub next to you.

Don't try to use the turbo with the ports blocked, lol. The turbo is merely an extension of the ports, so it won't do any good if the ports are negated. The way subwoofer ports act is like the top of a bottle when you blow over it, this is called a helmholtz resonator. It produces most of the low frequency output of the subwoofer. The driver itself can not do anywhere near that low frequency output. The width and length of the ports determine the tuning point of the subwoofer. A long narrow port will produce deeper frequencies than a wide port. When the port is wider, you get a higher tuning point but more output. With the VTF3, you get two large ports that can act as one wide port (for the 25 hz tuning point) or just use a single port for deep bass at the expense of some output from roughly 25 to 40 hz. The Turbo basically doubles the length of both ports, so you get the deep tuning of the single port mode and the big output of dual port mode. In practice though, it had questionable results for the mk3, and, like I said, it looks like it was really meant for the now discontinued VTF3 HO which was a more powerful sub.

If I were you, I would try different things, like near-field placement and plugging both ports, and ask your neighbor how much effect he is getting while running some frequency sweeps like some of these.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Congrat's on the 1,000th post, General.

Outside of FR, the real brainiacs aren't chiming in on this dead horse of a topic but ... always the but ... it has been pointed out to me that subs with a dual opposed design do NOT benefit from decoupling. There's cancellation going on there. FR might have mentioned that but my ADD will prevent me from ever knowing.

I just wanted to point out that decoupling 'changes' the sound for the better. It's not going to stop sound transmission from air to structure but it keeps the sub to structure sound from interfering with what the sub is putting into the air.

If you could drop by I could give a demonstration of this by stirring my coffee with the cup 'on' the kitchen counter and 'off' the kitchen counter. Drop by anytime. I'll put on a fresh pot. Hearing is believing. We'll get a DBT going. :D

Alex my friend, I agree with you on all accounts, and will not continue with this non brainiac topic, I have thick carpet over concrete, so no benefit for any isolation device, and I did own dual opposing driver subs and certainly can attest to the fact that they will not benefit fron decoupling.:) I'll call a head of time for the coffee get together, I prefer to have mine stirred from on top off the cabinet by the sub vibrations (auto stir)..:D Thanks for the General title, hadn't even noticed, I guess I can give orders now to the subordinates..:D;)
 
A

ACsGreens

Full Audioholic
I've noticed absolutely no benefit from my great gramma. The mopads have helped though.
I'm sure your great gramma would not like to hear that. While I no longer have my parents parents parents, i loved having them around and found a great benefit from them, especially great gramma...:D
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Whoo boy...

Yeah, a situation like what poor hizzaah is faced with here is why forums like this one can occasionally be frustrating and do as much harm as good :eek:

You've had a few bits of bad advice given to you, and it's even more difficult because you're coming to this forum specifically to ask questions and gain knowledge, but you're faced with conflicting recommendations. To top it off, if you don't already know the answers, you can't tell who's giving the good advice and who's, unfortunately, giving some misinformation.

There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this forum. And I'm actually amazed at how much we tend to agree more than disagree. Honestly, that's extremely rare. And I'm very happy to say that, the vast majority of the time, we're pretty respectful around here and a lot more in agreement than disagreement. The social environment here is the main reason I visit this forum more than any other :)

But sometimes, we do disagree. And sometimes, folks who are very knowledgeable still write some bad advice on certain topics. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else! I'm certainly not right all the time. I simply try to pass along the experiences and recommendations that I would like to receive if I were starting all over again, and I was looking for advice myself :)

Anyways, to be a little more specific:

we know what subwoofer you have. It is the HSU VTF-3 MK3. So we know it's got a 12" driver that's actually mounted on the side, and it stands on four round "feet". It is also a ported subwoofer, with options to run it with two ports open, one port open, or with the optional "turbo" attachment, which, by increasing the lengths of the ports, gives you the lower tuning of the one port open option combined with the higher output of the two ports open option.

There is no built-in option for plugging both ports though. And in EXTREME cases, where you are pushing the loudness of the subwoofer to its absolute maximum for extended periods of time, you really should not block both ports. The VTF-3 MK3 was not designed to run with both ports blocked. It was designed to be ported. And the switch on the back for 1 port or 2 ports changes the setting on the low end filter, which is there to protect the driver from bottoming out or overheating.

Now, in the real world, you're highly unlikely to run into any sort of physical or safety problem. You will almost certainly never have that subwoofer playing at it even near its maximum loudness capabilities. You will be damaging your hearing and experiencing pain well before that happens in any sort of normal room size in a house or apartment. But strictly speaking, just follow HSU's instructions. Do not block both ports. And set the switch on the back correctly.

As for the whole damping platform issue, I've said my piece, I'm not looking to argue about it, and the easiest thing by a country mile is to simply try it for yourself, and see if it helps.

The folks who are, for some odd reason, against even the concept of damping are way out to lunch, but it's pretty obvious that nothing is going to change their minds at this point. The floor is not vibrating the sub. That's ridiculous. Waves propagate through a medium, the medium itself does not travel - so calculating mass has nothing to do with the propagation of a wave. But at this point, it seems as bad as arguing about religion or politics, so I'll leave it to the simplest and most effective advice, which is to simply try damping in between your subwoofer and the floor, and observe the results (or in your case, your neighbor's results ;) ) for yourself.

As to things like dual opposed driver arrangements or other "force balanced" designs (like Paradigm's hexagonal subwoofers), it's absolutely the case that if those designs are effective at cancelling out vibrations (and they should be, unless they are unbalanced, or the drivers are out of phase), then there's no need for damping. But you have a VTF-3 MK3, with a lone driver on the side. It most definitely vibrates. And damping SHOULD help to reduce the structure-borne noise that is bothering your neighbor. Naturally, you'll simply have to try both the damped and non-damped configurations when your neighbor is home, and ask him to tell you if there was any improvement one way or the other. Again, advising you to not even try makes no sense to me. This is about solving a problem. I'm offering a potential solution. How does the advice to not even try help anything? Anywho...

I still don't understand the opposition to damping, or even how it can be so misunderstood. Get a long table, put a vibrating cell phone on it, and it's pretty darn obvious how loud that can be! Even if the cell phone is very lightweight and the table is extremely heavy. Not only is the sound of the vibrating cell phone way louder when it's on the table, but the cell phone could be on one end, you could put your hand on the opposite, far end on the table, and you'd feel the vibrations. It's not the mass. And it's not the cell phone vibrating the air and the air then vibrating the long, heavy table. I really don't understand how anyone is unfamiliar with this experience. Meanwhile, put the same vibrating cell phone on the same table, but with a pillow in between the cell phone and the table - is anyone seriously going to claim that it's just as loud or that you can still feel the vibrations with your hand on the far end of the table?

I dunno. I've no idea how anyone doesn't "get" how this works. But then again, there's a whole lot of stuff that other people believe that I think is really obviously not the case. Can't even battle that stuff with logic or facts. But this one - damping a subwoofer - you can easily try that for yourself, and your neighbor can easily tell you if it worked or not. Saying, "don't even try it because *I don't believe it will work" just doesn't seem like good advice to me. That's the same as saying, "don't put the pillow under the cell phone. I don't believe it will make it quieter when the phone vibrates". Well we know the pillow WILL make it quieter. But even if we didn't know that, why would we not even try it?

Weird. :p
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
First Reflection, I don't want to draw out the great bass isolation pad wars, but your phone on the table analogy does not serve your point.

A couple other things. The ports do not help to prevent driver over-heating, they do not act as cooling vents. It is perfectly safe to block the ports on almost any ported subwoofer, this won't hurt anything, in fact it will help prevent the driver from over excursion by increasing the pressure within the cabinet. It will eliminate deep bass output, but in Hizzah's case, that bass is bothering his neighbors. Sealed operation isn't in the manual for the VTF3 mk3, but I am sure that if Hizzah emailed Hsu Research and asked them about it, they would say it is OK.

Also, the VTF3 could not get so loud that it would damage anyone's hearing. Bass does not damage hearing like mid and high frequencies.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
First Reflection, I don't want to draw out the great bass isolation pad wars, but your phone on the table analogy does not serve your point.
Disagree. The OP already said he noticed a difference. Leave it at that.

bass is bothering his neighbors.
Specifically the test tones. Once he gets to regular content it's not going to be sustained LF output.

Bass does not damage hearing like mid and high frequencies.
Strongly disagree. A good 1Hz smack to the head will pop your ear drum like a pimple.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Your sub was built with those ports in that size box for optimal performance by a Subwoofer Engineer. No matter how long-winded the post, the fact is it messes up tuning, increases port compression, and accelerates driver wear when you plug ports. I have not run models on the HSU driver, but typically commercial subs are under-ported as is due to size limitations.

If you want a sealed sub you should buy a sealed one. Obviously it's your system and there is nothing wrong with doing this if you want to, but seriously why would you have a massive ported sub and not use the ports? I can't fathom the insanity of plugging ports.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Read this Thread #18

I lost it, will get back
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Disagree. The OP already said he noticed a difference. Leave it at that.
He plugged the ports. That is what made a difference, not placing the sub on blankets.


Specifically the test tones. Once he gets to regular content it's not going to be sustained LF output.
The duration of the sound won't lessen the effect on his neighbors

Strongly disagree. A good 1Hz smack to the head will pop your ear drum like a pimple.
I was talking about the VTF3's capabilities.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
He plugged the ports. That is what made a difference, not placing the sub on blankets.

Lots of people observe differences without plugging ports.


The duration of the sound won't lessen the effect on his neighbors
So a two second gun shot is as irritating as a 20 second explosion?


I was talking about the VTF3's capabilities.
Can it crank 50 Hz at 100 db? ... for a long time? You don't think that would hurt your hearing? Point is low and loud is still loud and that eff's up human hearing.

Excuse me while I put you back on ignore. :)
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Lots of people observe differences without plugging ports.
They imagine differences. If actual observation was involved, there might be some evidence to show for it.

So a two second gun shot is as irritating as a 20 second explosion?
I dunno, ask the OP's neighbors if loud gunshots are as irritating as loud explosions, which is what we were discussing. I don't imagine they would care for either.


Can it crank 50 Hz at 100 db? ... for a long time? You don't think that would hurt your hearing? Point is low and loud is still loud and that eff's up human hearing.
According to scientific literature, that wouldn't damage your hearing
 

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