Focal Sopra N°1 Bookshelf & Center Speaker Review

[ryanosaur]

it sounds like Satan

 

[Pogre]

Sounds like maybe some positional eq or peq might be helpful. I can't imagine the amp being an issue unless underpowered. Do you have any charts you can post of your rew sweeps?

 

[DavidParis]

Thanks for the laugh.! I certainly am not laughing much these days...

 

[DavidParis]

Sounds like maybe some positional eq or peq might be helpful. I can't imagine the amp being an issue unless underpowered. You have any charts u can post of your rew sweeps?

I know I'm a psycho but I hate EQ. I have used Dirac via MiniDSP and it works but is cumbersome and I don't like the extra ADA circuitry goofing with my signal. I have also EQ'd in Roon and ALSO used custom made convolution filters. Yes it works but you depend on real-time computer processing power to alter the signal of your favorite music. I got tired of that relatively quickly. The basic curve below doesn't look absolutely catastrophic but it sure sounds that way. Below 100hz seems to comprise 75% of what one hears.
Getting ready to give up soon, just debating about throwing more money down the drain with room acoustics treatments. I'm sure those guys need to make payments on their BMWs so who am I to play the cheapskate?
Brgds.

 

[Pogre]

Well below 100 hz your room is largely in charge, no matter how well the speakers measure in an anechoic chamber. That sweep looks pretty good really, for an in room response and no eq. Your bass response looks to match up pretty close to what's spec'd. Have you tried playing around with positioning? That's what I meant by positional eq. You know, further from any room boundaries (or closer), or mlp.

 

[DavidParis]

Well below 100 hz your room is largely in charge, no matter how well the speakers measure in an anechoic chamber. That sweep looks pretty good really for an in room response and no eq. Your bass response looks to match up pretty close to what's spec'd. Have you tried playing around with positioning? That's what I meant by positional eq. You know, further from any room boundaries (or closer) or mlp.

Hi again, yes I reposition about 10 times a day in desperation. No cigars. The Sopra 1 comes with foam bungs in fact. Spoke with Focal in France and they said the S1 is the only Sopra model with a validated/approved foam plug. Similar to what Dynaudio and others do. So, using them just removes too much bass. It's one extreme or the other, and that is independent on the recording quality of one's music which obviously is all over the place as well. My room is untreated besides domestic furnishings so I'm thinking I need to examine that also. I did measure test tones with a dB meter and got more than +30 dB in the front corners as compared to the listening position. That is sickeningly bad. Anyway, I can't reposition any further as wifey would require me to reposition myself at the local hotel or even worse. Brgds.

 

[Trell]

Yes, understood but these were bought used from a somewhat crooked first-hand, private owner after a 3 hour home demo in my room/electronics. Guess I didn't hear then what I hear now because if I did I never would've bought them. It is indeed quite pitiful if even a home demo is no guarantee of avoiding massive mistakes. Granted, these speakers are beautifully made and are quite impressive in terms of technical implementation. However, as bass reflex speakers, the dependence on room acoustics compatibility is perhaps even more paramount. For a speaker that is reputed by Focal to be down 6dB at 41hz and 3dB at 47hz I can certify that in my room, which isn't tiny, the REW measurements of FR <100hz are so "off the chart" I have to massively adjust the chart limits in REW just to see the curve. Imagine what that sounds like...I'll give you a clue; it sounds like Satan.
Brgds.

Buying speakers and not trying them out in your own home is for sure a risk, but your speakers are very good which gives the potential to sound good in your place as well. Since you have REW and a calibrated measurement microphone (?) it'll be much easier to detect issues that you have with the room and/or placement as I see in posts below. Just buying new speakers might make just as unhappy.

PS: Very impressive room treatment you've done! Happy with the GIK products?

Thanks! I'm happy with GIK products and I've got even more panels in the living room to cover down to the floor. That said, due to the pandemic and Brexit, there have been some small QC issues that has been handled very well by after-sales support. I live in EU and buy from the EU subsidiary.

 

[Pogre]

Hi again, yes I reposition about 10 times a day in desperation. No cigars. The Sopra 1 comes with foam bungs in fact. Spoke with Focal in France and they said the S1 is the only Sopra model with a validated/approved foam plug. Similar to what Dynaudio and others do. So, using them just removes too much bass. It's one extreme or the other, and that is independent on the recording quality of one's music which obviously is all over the place as well. My room is untreated besides domestic furnishings so I'm thinking I need to examine that also. I did measure test tones with a dB meter and got more than +30 dB in the front corners as compared to the listening position. That is sickeningly bad. Anyway, I can't reposition any further as wifey would require me to reposition myself at the local hotel or even worse. Brgds.

Before dropping big bucks on another speaker I would consider room treatments. You have rew so you'll be able to provide a file for someone like Gik to look over and offer possible solutions. I think you can get a free consult, then go from there. Like I said, there isn't a whole lot you can do below the Schroeder frequency without eq or treatments.

 

[Trell]

... I did measure test tones with a dB meter and got more than +30 dB in the front corners as compared to the listening position.

Much better to just use REW than a sound level meter, even a good one.

That is sickeningly bad.

Such variations are pretty common.

Anyway, I can't reposition any further as wifey would require me to reposition myself at the local hotel or even worse. Brgds.

Measurements using REW will make that task easier.

 

[Trell]

Before dropping big bucks on another speaker I would consider room treatments. You have rew so you'll be able to provide a file for someone like Gik to look over and offer possible solutions. I think you can get a free consult, then go from there. Like I said, there isn't a whole lot you can do below the Schroeder frequency without eq or treatments.

GIK Acoustics does have a free consultancy that is not just a sales pitch: https://www.gikacoustics.com/

It's my impression from reading about using room treatments is, in general, that people underestimate the amount of that needs to be used. In my living room over 50% of front and back wall is covered, including wall/ceiling corners. There is even a floor/ceiling corner treatment not shown in the pictures. The front wall panels are 4 inch thick with an additional scatter plate added to not over dampen high frequencies. Similar for the back wall, but I've added almost 4 inch of space behind them. I could have used thicker panels but then my room starts to get even smaller in a noticeable way.

On top of that, the room treatment has to look good as well as it's my living room! GIK has some very nice options here.

A major reason for me to use so much room treatment is that I'm very constrained by the physical layout of my small living room, so a workable layout is pretty much as I have it. Of course, I could move, but that is pretty expensive as well.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks! I'm happy with GIK products and I've got even more panels in the living room to cover down to the floor. That said, due to the pandemic and Brexit, there have been some small QC issues that has been handled very well by after-sales support. I live in EU and buy from the EU subsidiary.

I think your treatments actually add to the aesthetic of your room. Very tastefully done!

Dave, here's a link explaining the Schroeder frequency.

The Schroeder Frequency: A Show and Tell, Part 1

Even if you live in a studio apartment, you have at least two listening rooms. Well, in a sense. Every listening room is, in essence, two listening rooms when you look at it from the perspective of sound.To midrange and treble frequencies, your listening room is like a billiards table. Like...

www.soundandvision.com

Apologies if you're already up to speed on that, I'm not necessarily making assumptions, but not a lot of folks have heard of it. The beauty of treatments too, is that they should be good for your space for pretty much any accurate speakers.

I'm so enamored with those Focals I'd try to find a way to make 'em work. I think they're a tough sell on the used market for other reasons than not being good speakers. For starters they ain't cheap, and not many have any experience with them. Personally I think they're gorgeous speakers. Which I know means nothing for performance, but I've also read many of shady's reviews he's almost always on the mark for me. I wouldn't give up yet!

 

[Pogre]

I know I'm a psycho but I hate EQ.

Well... I wouldn't say you're a psycho. A tad stubborn maybe!

Nah, you're not alone in that sentiment. A lot of guys don't like using peq. I think your upper frequency response does look very good. Maybe you could try some eq and limit it to strictly below say... 200 hz or so? Some of us do that and have gotten great results.

 

[DavidParis]

Anyway...I've measured and tested to no end using various tools. I've been in this house for 26 years. I know my room pretty well and it is indeed terrible. It has seen electrostatic, isodynamique as well as electrodynamic speakers over the years, all more or less in the same exact positions, give or take a few centimeters. These Sopras are just exciting the room modes much too much in reference to my fixed listening position. I'm not moving house, nor will we redo the interior decorations or change the layout of the living room. Therefore a solution must be identified, which includes banishing the entire system from the living room as an option. It doesn't work here at all, insisting in full desperation mode seems pointless and counterproductive.

As for GIK, they do not do consultations outside of US and UK. Their online "consultation" is a joke at worst and at best it's a gimmick to lure unsuspecting victims into buying their products. I know this for a FACT as I have received their proposition based on my initial request which included room photos, a room design software mock-up and several .mdat files from REW. They responded with a proposition for me to buy 12, as in TWELVE, soffit products (the biggest and bulkiest they make) and to position them here, there, and pretty much everywhere in the room with no apparent rhyme or reason. If you know what the GIK soffit product is, and if you imagine 12 of them in a medium sized room...you know somebody has been abusing some controlled substances. Frankly, their proposition was anything but scientific. So back to the drawing board. Brgds.

 

[DavidParis]

I think your treatments actually add to the aesthetic of your room. Very tastefully done!

Dave, here's a link explaining the Schroeder frequency.

The Schroeder Frequency: A Show and Tell, Part 1

Even if you live in a studio apartment, you have at least two listening rooms. Well, in a sense. Every listening room is, in essence, two listening rooms when you look at it from the perspective of sound.To midrange and treble frequencies, your listening room is like a billiards table. Like...

www.soundandvision.com

Apologies if you're already up to speed on that, I'm not necessarily making assumptions, but not a lot of folks have heard of it. The beauty of treatments too, is that they should be good for your space for pretty much any accurate speakers.

I'm so enamored with those Focals I'd try to find a way to make 'em work. I think they're a tough sell on the used market for other reasons than not being good speakers. For starters they ain't cheap, and not many have any experience with them. Personally I think they're gorgeous speakers. Which I know means nothing for performance, but I've also read many of shady's reviews he's almost always on the mark for me. I wouldn't give up yet!

Thanks for the encouragement and the link. It's a shame that an innocent and harmless quest to enjoy music be so incredibly and needlessly complex, expensive and frustrating. I should have gotten into advanced macramé as a kid and not this stupid hobby. Brgds.

 

[Pogre]

I'm not moving house, nor will we redo the interior decorations or change the layout of the living room.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that...

Sounds like you've made up your mind. Hopefully you can find a speaker that makes you happy someday. Good luck. Brgds.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks for the encouragement and the link. It's a shame that an innocent and harmless quest to enjoy music be so incredibly and needlessly complex, expensive and frustrating. I should have gotten into advanced macramé as a kid and not this stupid hobby. Brgds.

Agreed. It gets complicated. My point tho, is not that your specific room is a major problem so much that every room is a major problem, and since they're all so different it's hard to make a perfect, "one size fits all" speaker. The research suggests that neutral measuring speakers tend to be preferred in blind listening tests in a variety of rooms, tho some rooms have different challenges than others.

I gave up on not using eq, lol. Especially for my bass. It's absolutely horrible without some eq in my room.

 

[Trell]

Anyway...I've measured and tested to no end using various tools. I've been in this house for 26 years. I know my room pretty well and it is indeed terrible. It has seen electrostatic, isodynamique as well as electrodynamic speakers over the years, all more or less in the same exact positions, give or take a few centimeters. These Sopras are just exciting the room modes much too much in reference to my fixed listening position. I'm not moving house, nor will we redo the interior decorations or change the layout of the living room. Therefore a solution must be identified, which includes banishing the entire system from the living room as an option. It doesn't work here at all, insisting in full desperation mode seems pointless and counterproductive.

I understand your frustration, share it actually, as acoustics is pretty complicated as so many factors affects the results (including the materials of the walls/ceiling/roof).

Have you tried to positioning the speakers at different heights? Sitting lower or higher?

Add one or more subwoofers that can be better placed for better bass. Solved some problems for me, added another.

As for GIK, they do not do consultations outside of US and UK. Their online "consultation" is a joke at worst and at best it's a gimmick to lure unsuspecting victims into buying their products. I know this for a FACT as I have received their proposition based on my initial request which included room photos, a room design software mock-up and several .mdat files from REW. They responded with a proposition for me to buy 12, as in TWELVE, soffit products (the biggest and bulkiest they make) and to position them here, there, and pretty much everywhere in the room with no apparent rhyme or reason. If you know what the GIK soffit product is, and if you imagine 12 of them in a medium sized room...you know somebody has been abusing some controlled substances. Frankly, their proposition was anything but scientific. So back to the drawing board. Brgds.

This was not my experience with them, but GIK recommending numerous soffit products align very well with your "are just exciting the room modes much too much in reference to my fixed listening position". If I could I would have taken a few of them as well in my living room, but they are too big for me, sadly.

 

[Trell]

Agreed. It gets complicated. My point tho, is not that your specific room is a major problem so much that every room is a major problem, and since they're all so different it's hard to make a perfect, "one size fits all" speaker. The research suggests that neutral measuring speakers tend to be preferred in blind listening tests in a variety of rooms, tho some rooms have different challenges than others.

I gave up on not using eq, lol. Especially for my bass. It's absolutely horrible without some eq in my room.

For lower bass EQ is mandatory in most rooms to pull down the peaks, which I think @DavidParis might be a victim of. Btw, are you related to Tom Paris in any way , assuming you are a Star Trek fan (edit: question to @DavidParis)

 

[Pogre]

Btw, are you related to Tom Paris in any way , assuming you are a Star Trek fan

No.

Yes! Original Trek and TNG mainly. I think Kurtzman is running it into the ground right now tho. It's barely recognizable.

 

[Trell]

No.

Yes! Original Trek and TNG mainly. I think Kurtzman is running it into the ground right now tho. It's barely recognizable.

I'm more a fan of later Star Trek, like Deep Space 9, which is my favourite. "Star Trek: Voyager" is another one I really like. I even like "Star Trek: Picard" oops and "Star Trek: Discovery " oops.