Flushing Out Myths in Consumer Audio

[gene]

<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/ConsumerAudioMyths.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 93px" alt=[toilet0011] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/toilet0011_th.jpg" align=left vspace=5 border=0></A>Being a consumer in such a vast and complex field as consumer audio and video can be frustrating for neophytes looking to increase their knowledge base in hopes of making educated purchasing decisions.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></SPAN><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1ersonName><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mark</SPAN></st1ersonName><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">eting can often be a big hindrance in differentiating the truth from hyperbola.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>In this editorial, we have collected a list of articles relating to myths surrounding audio which we hope will serve as a first aid kit and extinguisher against the hot air you may succumb too from the sales person when visiting your local hifi shop.</SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[Read the Editorial]</SPAN></P>

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

This will be one topic that many go back to time and time again. Very informative.

I have to sadly say there are still some folk that don't understand this one:

Q: The $199 100wpc receiver I bought at Kmart is just as powerful as the $1000 one sold at specialty shops.

A: This is most likely not true. Manufacturers often play games with power ratings and are almost never apples to apples comparison.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have to sadly say there are still some folk that don't understand this one:
I have to sadly say there are still some folk that don't understand this one:


Quote:
Q: The $199 100wpc receiver I bought at Kmart is just as powerful as the $1000 one sold at specialty shops.

A: This is most likely not true. Manufacturers often play games with power ratings and are almost never apples to apples comparison.

Well, some SETs are $15k and that K mart special may be equivalent?

 

[mtrycrafts]

This is great. Maybe it should be a sticky someplace or at all the main pages?
Keep adding to this, if you would.

 

[The Dukester]

This is great. Maybe it should be a sticky someplace or at all the main pages?
Keep adding to this, if you would.

Agreed! Well, with the exception of the amp portion. I still think my JC Penney MCS receiver sounds every bit as good as my McIntosh.

 

[gene]

Well, some SETs are $15k and that K mart special may be equivalent?

Haha you got that right!

This is great. Maybe it should be a sticky someplace or at all the main pages?
Keep adding to this, if you would.

That is a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion and will do.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Agreed! Well, with the exception of the amp portion. I still think my JC Penney MCS receiver sounds every bit as good as my McIntosh.

My Fisher from Sears will give your MCS a run for its money.
Remember Silvertone?

 

[JeffD2.]

That was good read. Nice job of collecting the links into a one stop sticky.

My Montgomery Wards "AirLine___" system from 1971 had a BUILT-IN 8 track and a SEPARATE turntable (not mounted atop the receiver) and easily outclassed those Sears and JC Penny systems!

 

[mustang_steve]

Oh please...my fisher price first turntable will whoop all you guy's sorry systems

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Agreed! Well, with the exception of the amp portion. I still think my JC Penney MCS receiver sounds every bit as good as my McIntosh.

Wow...I havent heard that name in ages(MCS). MCS was my first receiver purchase about 25 years ago. I have no clue whatever happened to it. It's probably sitting up in my parents attic somewhere......LOL

 

[gmichael]

My Emerson all in one, receiver, record player, 8-track will out-do any Parasound Halo or PS Audio, seperates on the market. It says so right on the box it came in.

 

[Sleestack]

I wish you guys would do a more extensive analysis of the digital v. vinyl debate. The first article regarding myths in digital was very good, but I'm still waiting on part II. The first article seemed to support the case that digital can't reproduce certain waves as well as analog, but my ears tell me otherwise.

 

[krabapple]

I wish you guys would do a more extensive analysis of the digital v. vinyl debate. The first article regarding myths in digital was very good, but I'm still waiting on part II. The first article seemed to support the case that digital can't reproduce certain waves as well as analog, but my ears tell me otherwise.

? Where did it seem to support that?

 

[Sleestack]

? Where did it seem to support that?

When it discusses sawtooth and square waves, but perhaps I misunderstood?

 

[krabapple]

When it discusses sawtooth and square waves, but perhaps I misunderstood?

Can you point me to that discussion? I thought maybe you were referring to the article on brickwall filters and phase, but I don't see anything about square waves and sawtooths there. And btw, a digitally reproduced square wave deviates from perfectly sqaure because it filters out high frequencies that you can't hear. Analog can't reproduce a perfect square wave either, since its bandwidth isn't infinite either. Heck, the ear acts as a frequency filter too. As long as the 'square wave' accurately includes those frequencies in the audible band (and excludes modulation artifacts from frequencies outside the band) it will sound 'square'.

 

[Sleestack]

Can you point me to that discussion? I thought maybe you were referring to the article on brickwall filters and phase, but I don't see anything about square waves and sawtooths there. And btw, a digitally reproduced square wave deviates from perfectly sqaure because it filters out high frequencies that you can't hear. Analog can't reproduce a perfect square wave either, since its bandwidth isn't infinite either. Heck, the ear acts as a frequency filter too. As long as the 'square wave' accurately includes those frequencies in the audible band (and excludes modulation artifacts from frequencies outside the band) it will sound 'square'.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/DigitalAudio.php

 

[krabapple]

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/DigitalAudio.php

Oh I get it now, you're not talking about the editorial, but a different article buried couple of links deep in it.

As I've noted before (as have others), Tham's LP vs. digital formats article is in *serious* need of technical review. I don't really think it's worthy of Audioholics as is.

 

[AdrianMills]

You know, it's incredible how upset the audiophile faithful get when you tell them that a lot of what they hear is down to biased perceptions, more so when you start posting links from articles at Audioholics or other places to back up your opinion and the only thing they can say is, "I hear it so it must be true" or variations on that theme.

It's even more frustrating when the admins of some sites are also believers and it affects the way they moderate.

I'm now on the bad side of HTGuide.com - the admins there seem to think I'm the anti-christ out to cause havoc and chaos wherever I go by telling everyone they are "deluded". Which of course I'm not and I haven't.

I've now told the admins there to ban or delete my account - basically it was only a matter of time anyway and even if they didn't I certainly did not want to contribute to a forum that gags my views.

The reason I'm posting this is that I thought the skeptical masses here might want to have a laugh and read two threads I've been involved in over there - it gets really funny towards the end of those threads when the admins start to get really pissed - and I think they get more upset because I remain polite. Hopefully, they don't remove those threads before people here have had some fun - or even contribute?

HTGuide.com is owned by a snake oil cable company btw and they explicitly disallow cable criticisms. Surprisingly, I and others have managed to make some remarks without any deletions.

The threads can seen here (I'm Ade in these threads btw); Do amplifiers sound different and Speakers make a difference, beware of the snake oil

Have fun.

 

[highfihoney]

You know, it's incredible how upset the audiophile faithful get when you tell them that a lot of what they hear is down to biased perceptions, more so when you start posting links from articles at Audioholics or other places to back up your opinion and the only thing they can say is, "I hear it so it must be true" or variations on that theme.

It's even more frustrating when the admins of some sites are also believers and it affects the way they moderate.

I'm now on the bad side of HTGuide.com - the admins there seem to think I'm the anti-christ out to cause havoc and chaos wherever I go by telling everyone they are "deluded". Which of course I'm not and I haven't.

I've now told the admins there to ban or delete my account - basically it was only a matter of time anyway and even if they didn't I certainly did not want to contribute to a forum that gags my views.

The reason I'm posting this is that I thought the skeptical masses here might want to have a laugh and read two threads I've been involved in over there - it gets really funny towards the end of those threads when the admins start to get really pissed - and I think they get more upset because I remain polite. Hopefully, they don't remove those threads before people here have had some fun - or even contribute?

HTGuide.com is owned by a snake oil cable company btw and they explicitly disallow cable criticisms. Surprisingly, I and others have managed to make some remarks without any deletions.

The threads can seen here (I'm Ade in these threads btw); Do amplifiers sound different and Speakers make a difference, beware of the snake oil

Have fun.

my only question to you would be this,have you spent time with ANY of these amplifiers that you contend *sound the same*in your own system in your home ?

 

[AdrianMills]

my only question to you would be this,have you spent time with ANY of these amplifiers that you contend *sound the same*in your own system in your home ?

I would say that your question is irrelevant.

I know with a high degree of probability that the earth is a near sphere. I also know that the moon is not made of blue cheese. I've neither circumnavigated the earth nor have I taken a trip to the moon, and yet I still know this.

Have you ever managed to identify two or more amplifiers in a properly run, level matched blind comparison?

As people keep on pointing out, proving a negative is extremely difficult and the onus of providing proof is with those asserting a positive.