Floorstander needed if using subs?

[KEW]

How good are svs speakers , don’t emotiva and monoprice make speakers now ?
Is there a ton of brands to look at but no stores anywere to listen to them .
I’m often suprized how much some speakers cost even when home audio seems to be on life’s support , why do goldenear cost 6-7k and klipsch horn 13k for there flagship models ?

You sound like a good candidate for the SVS Ultra's! If your dollars matter, wait for Bstock inventory (usually very difficult to find the blemish),the Ultra BS will go for $400 each. But the reason to buy SVS over Emotiva and Monoprice (which I have not heard) is that SVS will let you keep them for 45 days and if you decide not to keep them, they will pay for the return shipping - it won't cost you a dime!
The SVS Ultras are very good speakers. They are designed by Mark Mason who used to design speakers for PSB!
I know of one speaker which, if you will use a subwoofer is a better buy - that is the Canton Vento for $850. The tweeter is a little more refined to my ear:
https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/cantvento826.2blka/canton-vento-826.2-6-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-black-pair/1.html
However, it is not a whole lot better than the Ultra, and you'd probably have to pay return shipping and a restocking fee if you just decided you did not like them. There is no guarantee what sounds better to me would match your preference.
Consequently, I feel much better about recommending the SVS Ultra. I think you would consider them excellent, but there is truly no risk if you did not.
The best way to do this is to get two or three speakers in your home for comparison purposes. The idea of going to one store to listen to a speaker then to a totally different room for another is a poor comparison - room acoustics, your mood (in a rush, etc),and how well you can remember the speakers you heard even 5 minutes ago all confound your judgement! The ideal is to get them in your home for a couple weeks to compare (if you can float a couple of pairs on your CC). Crutchfield has a pretty good selection and has a pretty good return policy - only something like a nominal $15 fee to return (read their policy to make sure). $15 to ensure the speakers you keep are better than another pair of recommended speakers is a bargain in my opinion.

@shadyJ did you get a chance to hear the SVS Ultras when AH reviewed them? Thoughts on them vs Monolith or Emotiva?

 

[HTfreak2004]

Not

Wow well said!!!
I think some lower end towers can outperform more expensive bookshelves though . Bigger soundstage , but I think bookshelves are better for surround When its going to cost too much to use towers for rears , heights or whatever’s you do for 5-9 ch.
For lfe effects no tower can compete with a larger cone sub . Except maybe towers with larger built in subs . Not that I will ever be able to afford a pair.

How good are svs speakers , don’t emotiva and monoprice make speakers now ?
Is there a ton of brands to look at but no stores anywere to listen to them .
I’m often suprized how much some speakers cost even when home audio seems to be on life’s support , why do goldenear cost 6-7k and klipsch horn 13k for there flagship models ?
My bedroom sucks I cannot event turn my sub up past half power. Its usually half or 1/3!!

I’m not entirely sure why any sub gain should ever be calibrated higher than 1/2 gain. The variety of bass in music and LFE of movies when bass managed is already a massive demand for a Sub and it’s amp to deal with.
Someone posted a great article on subs and thermal overload a few weeks back.
I half understood it but from what I can gather most subs especially sealed units need way to much amp juice at low frequencies and thermal overload usually becomes the Achilles heel whereas a well designed ported sub may and usually does perform better with far less amp juice which potentially keeps things cooler longer extending sub and amp life!

 

[Kingnoob]

Not

I’m not entirely sure why any sub gain should ever be calibrated higher than 1/2 gain. The variety of bass in music and LFE of movies when bass managed is already a massive demand for a Sub and it’s amp to deal with.
Someone posted a great article on subs and thermal overload a few weeks back.
I half understood it but from what I can gather most subs especially sealed units need way to much amp juice at low frequencies and thermal overload usually becomes the Achilles heel whereas a well designed ported sub may and usually does perform better with far less amp juice which potentially keeps things cooler longer extending sub and amp life!

So it may be better to build ported subs ? Ehh wish I knew ahead of time.
My box is big enough to port but have to redo whole box is too tedious.

 

[HTfreak2004]

So it may be better to build ported subs ? Ehh wish I knew ahead of time.

Not better or worse just depends on application. Ported has the potential to give you more output potential/LFE for input power whereas a sealed sub is usually a smaller cabinet and may be more useful over a larger frequency band while sacrificing output volume and LFE.

 

[KEW]

So it may be better to build ported subs ? Ehh wish I knew ahead of time.
My box is big enough to port but have to redo whole box is too tedious.

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/sealed-vs-ported-subwoofers

 

[Kingnoob]

This system uses a mini subwoofer haha , it’s not my main sub but slim subs could work from bigger drivers or no?? -as long as cubic foot is large enough ??
This baby sub is 1/20

the size of my other one or less .

 

[Kingnoob]

Not better or worse just depends on application. Ported has the potential to give you more output potential/LFE for input power whereas a sealed sub is usually a smaller cabinet and may be more useful over a larger frequency band while sacrificing output volume and LFE.

Bash 500wrms amp was so overpriced should had got a crown amp.
What about sealed in a larger big box 4.5 cubic foot or 5? Does it strain the amplifier more ? Say for a 15”
I’ll be sure to do ported next time I was worried I would annoy my parents with the added spl. Plus port noises
My sealed sub box is larger by twice the size of most subs made by big sub sellers like hsu or svs hmmm . Does that mean mine won’t go as loud ? Bigger box
My amplifier isn’t 600wrms but si ht15” subwoofer , so I’m not getting full power ?
My sub is old and discontinued the new ones are better .

 

[lovinthehd]

-2db is going to be almost non-discernible. What will be discernible is how much more amp power is needed just to make up the -2db at loud playback volume.

I’m not trying to be an antagonist here but like you already said with a larger room, speaker sensitivity becomes much more important due to the inverse square law.

If the bookshelf speaker suits the room and listening distance switching to a floor stander will add more cost for little to no advantage and could possibly sound less appealing.

You already made that clear by purchasing the floor standers and relocating your bookshelves.

(Size of room and distance from speaker play roles. In a fairly large room I changed to floorstanders for L/R and surrounds from standmount units, and I prefer the larger speakers in the larger room; moved the standmounts to my bedroom and they are better in the smaller room. Depends on the particular speaker, too)

Yes, the difference in sensitivity is largely about amp needs. Just hearing 2dB difference spl isn't all that meaningful either (somewhat like going the other way in terms of getting a power amp for a 3dB spl advantage). I didn't say speaker sensitivity becomes much more important in a larger room due to the inverse square law, tho. I said the larger speakers can make a difference in a larger room, part of that of course is sensitivity in that they're easier to drive, and larger speakers move more air and in larger rooms that tends to work, as well as being far enough away from larger speakers. I'd generally had smaller listening rooms before this one, was planning on building some larger speakers anyways but I just happened to buy some instead when some very attractive sales came up. I relocate all equipment that gets moved from the main setup to the next most relevant setup, and from that to the next most relevant setup, etc.

 

[Kingnoob]

Yes, the difference in sensitivity is largely about amp needs. Just hearing 2dB difference spl isn't all that meaningful either (somewhat like going the other way in terms of getting a power amp for a 3dB spl advantage). I didn't say speaker sensitivity becomes much more important in a larger room due to the inverse square law, tho. I said the larger speakers can make a difference in a larger room, part of that of course is sensitivity in that they're easier to drive, and larger speakers move more air and in larger rooms that tends to work, as well as being far enough away from larger speakers. I'd generally had smaller listening rooms before this one, was planning on building some larger speakers anyways but I just happened to buy some instead when some very attractive sales came up. I relocate all equipment that gets moved from the main setup to the next most relevant setup, and from that to the next most relevant setup, etc.

My sub seems way too large for a bedroom but I get tons of low end bass from a sealed sub . How much lower do ported go ? Or just more output at tuning hertz ?
I wanted ported but it takes much more work and bracing .
Yet in a larger room ported Is much better , and I would need duel subs .
Bedroom is 12’ x 12’x 11’
Is it’s possible to have too much sub bass?

 

[lovinthehd]

So it may be better to build ported subs ? Ehh wish I knew ahead of time.
My box is big enough to port but have to redo whole box is too tedious.

Ported subs are more efficient for low bass is their advantage compared to sealed. There are tradeoffs with either design, tho. Which SI 15", HST?

 

[Kingnoob]

Ported subs are more efficient for low bass is their advantage compared to sealed. There are tradeoffs with either design, tho. Which SI 15", HST?

Discontinued theater sub ht model duel voice coil I had to go and look up how to wire in series , or whoever you do dvc .
It’s 600 wrms I think 44mm xmech or something.
The newer models are triple the prices or more but significantly more powerful. And better

 

[lovinthehd]

My sub seems way too large for a bedroom but I get tons of low end bass from a sealed sub . How much lower do ported go ? Or just more output at tuning hertz ?
I wanted ported but it takes much more work and bracing .
Yet in a larger room ported Is much better , and I would need duel subs .
Bedroom is 12’ x 12’x 11’

I use sealed because they were easier to build Smaller worked, but I use multiples. The low bass is where a ported design has an advantage, above tuning up to the 40-50hz range usually. Cabin gain can help a sealed sub, too. Sealed generally can dig a little deeper but not appreciably without quite a few of them (they tend to roll off slower vs ported as well, but depends on dsp applied in the sub's amp). I use a pair of 12" sealed in a bedroom similar sized to yours, but 3x18" sealed and a dual opposed 15" sealed in my largest space.

 

[HTfreak2004]

Yes, the difference in sensitivity is largely about amp needs. Just hearing 2dB difference spl isn't all that meaningful either (somewhat like going the other way in terms of getting a power amp for a 3dB spl advantage). I didn't say speaker sensitivity becomes much more important in a larger room due to the inverse square law, tho. I said the larger speakers can make a difference in a larger room, part of that of course is sensitivity in that they're easier to drive, and larger speakers move more air and in larger rooms that tends to work, as well as being far enough away from larger speakers. I'd generally had smaller listening rooms before this one, was planning on building some larger speakers anyways but I just happened to buy some instead when some very attractive sales came up. I relocate all equipment that gets moved from the main setup to the next most relevant setup, and from that to the next most relevant setup, etc.

I agree. Knowing what you need to drive to the SPL can save loads if done right the 1st time!

 

[lovinthehd]

Discontinued theater sub ht model duel voice coil I had to go and look up how to wire in series , or whoever you do dvc .
It’s 600 wrms I think 44mm xmech or something.
The newer models are triple the prices or more but significantly more powerful. And better

Yeah I think the HT series had a 15" once....been a while. I have the 18s.

 

[Kingnoob]

I agree. Knowing what you need to drive to the SPL can save loads if done right the 1st time!

Not sure we’re to post your systems I posted my downstairs one I use the most . My better one has no cable box . Only use it for films , so It’s not necessarily my primary system now.
I wanted the 18” but it was sold out at the time. Didn’t want to wait 7 months, I cannot get another til I find a good enough job to move out.
The 15” sealed can shake the whole upstairs . USed to rattle lights too I put lot of carpet under it
Wish I had waited for 18” but It’s extinct now and hst models cost wayyy more!
What happened to the 21” maelstrom sub ? I heard about it years ago never saw it for sale anywhere.
Anyone make affordable 21” subs? For when I find a job haha
I may be better off upgrading speakers and receiver before worrying about new subwoofers!

 

[HTfreak2004]

Not sure we’re to post your systems I posted my downstairs one I use the most . My better one has no cable box . Only use it for films , so It’s not necessarily my primary system now.
I wanted the 18” but it was sold out at the time. Didn’t want to wait 7 months

Sure it’s possible to have too much low end. Good sounding bass in one room can sound horrible in another room. Most people have rooms myself included too small in cubic area to let a large sub driver breath! Subs are the hardest addition to your system to integrate. Don’t be surprised if applying a room resonance filter is necessary to smooth the bass response over a broader frequency range!

 

[Kingnoob]

Sure it’s possible to have too much low end. Good sounding bass in one room can sound horrible in another room. Most people have rooms myself included too small in cubic area to let a large sub driver breath! Subs are the hardest addition to your system to integrate. Don’t be surprised if applying a room resonance filter is necessary to smooth the bass response over a broader frequency range!

I could not afford bass traps best I could do Is try and stack sub on carpet scraps and a diy riser platform. No money for aurolex pads , simply lowering volume is usually best I cannot do . Seems to have plenty of space to breath though. It’s in center of room on left side far from corners, so it doesn’t resonate the whole house .
I wish I could afford cable in my room but I cannot .
Floorstander Speaker are best when you have the space , but nothing replaces subwoofer powerhouse bass. Even some small subs are powerful.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not sure we’re to post your systems I posted my downstairs one I use the most . My better one has no cable box . Only use it for films , so It’s not necessarily my primary system now.
I wanted the 18” but it was sold out at the time. Didn’t want to wait 7 months, I cannot get another til I find a good enough job to move out.
The 15” sealed can shake the whole upstairs . USed to rattle lights too I put lot of carpet under it
Wish I had waited for 18” but It’s extinct now and hst models cost wayyy more!
What happened to the 21” maelstrom sub ? I heard about it years ago never saw it for sale anywhere.
Anyone make affordable 21” subs? For when I find a job haha
I may be better off upgrading speakers and receiver before worrying about new subwoofers!

The HS-24 from SI is the basis of the sub company Deep Sea Sound. There are some B&C 21" you can check out on data-bass.com on the systems page both as diy and with the WW cabinets.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not

I’m not entirely sure why any sub gain should ever be calibrated higher than 1/2 gain. The variety of bass in music and LFE of movies when bass managed is already a massive demand for a Sub and it’s amp to deal with.
Someone posted a great article on subs and thermal overload a few weeks back.
I half understood it but from what I can gather most subs especially sealed units need way to much amp juice at low frequencies and thermal overload usually becomes the Achilles heel whereas a well designed ported sub may and usually does perform better with far less amp juice which potentially keeps things cooler longer extending sub and amp life!

You merely set gain as needed, being 1/2 way around a dial is relatively meaningless.

 

[Kingnoob]

The HS-24 from SI is the basis of the sub company Deep Sea Sound. There are some B&C 21" you can check out on data-bass.com on the systems page both as diy and with the WW cabinets.

https://www.parts-express.com/bc-21ds115-4-21-professional-neodymium-subwoofer-4-ohm--294-6032?gclid=CjwKCAjw_uDsBRAMEiwAaFiHa2dg9AKfFOOpzCTlCQUMG3tta4DxqhrNoqbmG_3yKg4b_uj7FYKAkxoCQ7UQAvD_BwE
Pro subwoofers are good for home theater ? ANd stuff , the si 24” is probably close to same value as my 15” it’s just 10x the cost ? But 8x -10 the output ? So essentially it’s the same price range for power
Pro subs have much less xmax but higher power handling and efficiency?