First Tower Speakers. Which is best?

[grnheads]

Hey guys. This is my first HT and I'm getting very frustrated with trying to find the right tower speakers. The only retailer around me is Best Buy and HH Greg and they have a limited supply. I would rather branch out and get more bang for my buck. I have listed a few options below that I have read about or heard about on here. My room is around 13X20 carpeted with 4ft. knee walls. I will use them mostly for movies and tv and some music (i like my vinyl). I would like to spend no more than $500 per speaker. If you guys could tell me what you think or give me some better options. The only thing that I have to go on is Cnet and you guys on here. Here is what I have found so far:

Amperion Intimus 4T
Intimus 5T

Emp E5Ti
E55Ti

Energy CF-30
CF-50

Jamo- I've heard alot of good things about them but don't know alot.



Also, I have an Onkyo TX-SR508 receiver but could upgrade if needed.

 

[PHANofPHUNK]

The cf-50 (on paper) is most deffinetly the best looking speaker. 90db sensitivity, 39hrz frequency response.

All the other speakers would need A LOT of power to sound the way they should.

As far as your amp, its not a deffinetly not a POS, but you would hear it's weakness when trying to drive speakers that have a low sensitivity.

I'll suggest looking at Paradigm monitor seris, and B&W 684. they are both about 1500 a pair, a bit more then you want to spend. The B&W's are available at best buy, if you apply for a best buy visa card, you may get up to 15% off your first purchase.

Happy hunting, and remember 2 things


1. take your time!
2. reviews are reviews, your ears are your review.

 

[sholling]

C-net reviews are okay for shareware but I don't consider their A/V reviews to be worth reading. Audioholics has reviews on the EMPs but not the others. I'm afraid you'll have to do some leg work on this one.

BTW do you have a good subwoofer? Because if you don't you may be better off putting that money into subs and bookshelves.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Some others to look at:

Martin Logan Preface brand new @ 60% off:
http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Preface-Cherry-Standing-Loudspeaker/dp/B0018Z9Y76/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1294321745&sr=8-6

Martin Logan Source brand new @ 39% off:
http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Source-High-Performance-Electrostatic-Loudspeaker/dp/B0018ZBASM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1294321745&sr=8-3

Martin Logan Motion @ full price:
http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Motion-10-Floorstanding-Speaker/dp/B0035FZ142/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1294321745&sr=8-5

Infinity Primus P363:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0046A8R3M/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Martin Logan Purity @ 40% off:
http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Purity-Fully-Powered-Electrostatic-Loudspeaker/dp/B000XSDHIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1294322205&sr=1-1

 

[3db]

Hey guys. This is my first HT and I'm getting very frustrated with trying to find the right tower speakers. The only retailer around me is Best Buy and HH Greg and they have a limited supply. I would rather branch out and get more bang for my buck. I have listed a few options below that I have read about or heard about on here. My room is around 13X20 carpeted with 4ft. knee walls. I will use them mostly for movies and tv and some music (i like my vinyl). I would like to spend no more than $500 per speaker. If you guys could tell me what you think or give me some better options. The only thing that I have to go on is Cnet and you guys on here. Here is what I have found so far:

Amperion Intimus 4T
Intimus 5T

Emp E5Ti
E55Ti

Energy CF-30
CF-50

Jamo- I've heard alot of good things about them but don't know alot.



Also, I have an Onkyo TX-SR508 receiver but could upgrade if needed.

Here's A PSB dealer near you if you care to audition.

5 miles
Google Maps

Digital Theater Designs LLC
7926 Macon Road
Cordova TN 38018
USA 901-356-0327
http://www.digitaltheaterdesigns.com

 

[zumbo]

For 1k pair, I think mine are the best.

MB Quart QLS 830!

 

[3db]

For 1k pair, I think mine are the best.

MB Quart QLS 830!

My Technics SB-T200 that I used to own before I bought my PSBs had the same type of driver arrangement. I often wonder what differences in radiation that makes between that design and the tweeter on top followd by the two mid/bass drivers.

 

[jostenmeat]

My Technics SB-T200 that I used to own before I bought my PSBs had the same type of driver arrangement. I often wonder what differences in radiation that makes between that design and the tweeter on top followd by the two mid/bass drivers.

It reduces ceiling/floor bounce. However, this also means that being on-axis is a bit more imperative so that lobing may be avoided (same way with horizontal center speakers that are MTM).

I am already talking out of my element, but I know that driver spacing is key. The MTM can have identical distances between both mids and tweeter. I don't know the implications or specifically the limitations with 2.5 way or 3 way speakers, as far as having a MTW for instance or something, I dunno, I better stop there!

The horizontal offset of zumbo's (edit) tweeters is for better evening of diffraction effects. edit#2, maybe they're not offset, the leaning grille had me confused. Swerd has personally advised for me the sq root of 2 as the relative dimension of tweeter to one edge.

Your PSB's have a curved baffle, as well as a dimpled baffle at the tweeter. Go take a look. These are also both for handling diffraction effects. Nice that PSB does these things at this price point.

 

[zieglj01]

If you can squeeze another $95 - then look at this.
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/88948

 

[3db]

It reduces ceiling/floor bounce. However, this also means that being on-axis is a bit more imperative so that lobing may be avoided (same way with horizontal center speakers that are MTM).

I am already talking out of my element, but I know that driver spacing is key. The MTM can have identical distances between both mids and tweeter. I don't know the implications or specifically the limitations with 2.5 way or 3 way speakers, as far as having a MTW for instance or something, I dunno, I better stop there!

The horizontal offset of zumbo's (edit) tweeters is for better evening of diffraction effects. edit#2, maybe they're not offset, the leaning grille had me confused. Swerd has personally advised for me the sq root of 2 as the relative dimension of tweeter to one edge.

Your PSB's have a curved baffle, as well as a dimpled baffle at the tweeter. Go take a look. These are also both for handling diffraction effects. Nice that PSB does these things at this price point.

Thanks or your post... Just an aside,,, the "square root of 2" appears heavily throughout electronics theorey, amplification, etc. I wonder if that value show up in music as well.

 

[zumbo]

Here is something of interest.

D’Appolito Array

http://www.audioholics.com/news/press-releases/dr-joseph-d2019appolito-on-board-at-snell

 

[Radio Flyer]

Take a look at the Klipsch Reference series. You may be able to find a pair for cheap on New Egg or something of the sort.

 

[gregl15]

Hey guys. This is my first HT and I'm getting very frustrated with trying to find the right tower speakers. The only retailer around me is Best Buy and HH Greg and they have a limited supply. I would rather branch out and get more bang for my buck. I have listed a few options below that I have read about or heard about on here. My room is around 13X20 carpeted with 4ft. knee walls. I will use them mostly for movies and tv and some music (i like my vinyl). I would like to spend no more than $500 per speaker. If you guys could tell me what you think or give me some better options. The only thing that I have to go on is Cnet and you guys on here. Here is what I have found so far:

Amperion Intimus 4T
Intimus 5T

Emp E5Ti
E55Ti

Energy CF-30
CF-50

Jamo- I've heard alot of good things about them but don't know alot.



Also, I have an Onkyo TX-SR508 receiver but could upgrade if needed.

How do you like the receiver? I was looking at the Onkyo SR-608... seems pretty sweet on paper, but didn't know if it performs as good.

 

[jp_over]

Excellent advice provided so far. I'll echo, take your time and look through some of the "shootouts" here. Enjoy the search!

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/allContents

 

[Swerd]

… Swerd has personally advised for me the sq root of 2 as the relative dimension of tweeter to one edge.

jostenmeat is great at asking me lots of questions, but not always so good at repeating the info. I'm glad he tries (you get A for effort), but if you're going to mention my name, you need to get it right. Time for school – again .

Some speakers have tweeters that are centered between the cabinet's sides, and some are off-center a small bit. Why? Sound starting from the tweeter can move in all directions. Sound moving along the speaker's front panel will hit the cabinet edges and undergo what is called diffraction. At the edges the sound acts as if it is a new sound source. So you end up with several treble sound sources, the tweeter itself, and both cabinet vertical edges. (This also happens with the cabinet's top and bottom edges, but because of the longer distances, the level of diffracted sounds coming from them is low enough so it isn't a problem.)

What happens when there are 3 sound sources? The sound from the edges will be slightly delayed in time compared to the original tweeter. These sounds can be in or out of phase with the original sound from the tweeter. It also depends on their frequency and the distances from the tweeter to the edges. So at some frequencies, they will add to make a small peak, and at other frequencies they will subtract to make a small valley. These can be seen in a frequency vs. response curve as unevenness in the range of roughly 4-8 kHz.

If the tweeter is centered on the front baffle (the distance from the tweeter to each side of the cabinet is the same) the height of these peaks and valleys will be more prominent than if the tweeter is mounted off-center. If the distances from tweeter to the edges are not equal, the unevenness in the FR curve will be spread out a bit and the peaks won't be as high. If the ratio of these two distances is a multiple of the square root of 2 (an irrational number for those who remember high school math) these peaks and valleys will be minimized or absent.

If you're building your own cabinets, mounting the tweeter slightly off-center is easy to do and may slightly improve the sound.

Please note that none of this has anything to do with the earlier question of what is the difference between MTM or TMM speakers .

 

[jostenmeat]

jostenmeat is great at asking me lots of questions, but not always so good at repeating the info. I'm glad he tries (you get A for effort), but if you're going to mention my name, you need to get it right. Time for school – again .

What did I get wrong? Your post seems to be exactly what I understood. Maybe I had a typo or something, I'll reread my posts. No, I didn't delve into the details about freq's being acoustically large or small for the baffle distance/point, nor did I attach the articles you had given me.

Ok, after rereading, I suspect that I must have used an improper adjective when saying "relative" dimension of sq root of 2, instead of saying "ratio"? In any case, I didn't offer a unit of measurement attached to the irrational number for a reason; I did mean ratio.

 

[Swerd]

What did I get wrong? Your post seems to be exactly what I understood. Maybe I had a typo or something, I'll reread my posts. No, I didn't delve into the details about freq's being acoustically large or small for the baffle distance/point, nor did I attach the articles you had given me.

You didn't get it wrong, but tweeter offset doesn't have anything to do with the question about MTM vs. TMM speaker layouts. I'm having a little fun yanking your chain .

It's finally Friday afternoon after the first long week back at work after the holidays. It was a rough week.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks or your post... Just an aside,,, the "square root of 2" appears heavily throughout electronics theorey, amplification, etc. I wonder if that value show up in music as well.

Fascinating, can you explain why it comes up so often?

As for music, no. Well, I don't know all of the musics of the world, but for Western common practice period, no they're all rational numbers/ratios. Well, they are in theory, or* if we are truly and perfectly in tune for any specific key. (See, if you are "tempered" like a piano, then you are perfectly out* of tune, because if you are perfectly in tune in one key, you will sound awful in another; string quartets however can play perfectly in tune no matter what the key.)

What's sorta neat is that the most basic of the intervals are also the EXACT same thing as the most basic of polyrhythms. For instance, I'm pretty sure zumbo is drummer, and therefore I simply assume he can play 2 against 3, 3 against 4, and 4 against 5, for instance.

If I record him playing 2vs3, take this recording, and simply speed it up, we will HEAR a perfect fifth (difference between adjacent strings on a violin). If I record him playing 3vs4, speed up the recording, it will be a perfect fourth (difference between adjacent strings on a guitar). Yes, the world seems to be fractal at times!

edit: it's not just polyrhythms but all rhythms. Eighth notes to the quarters, recorded, sped up, sounds like an octave. Because it is an octave. (But again, on a piano, there are no octaves that are perfectly in tune).

 

[jostenmeat]

You didn't get it wrong, but tweeter offset doesn't have anything to do with the question about MTM vs. TMM speaker layouts. I'm having a little fun yanking your chain .

Ok, I was trying to impart what I knew, when I mistakenly thought those pictures speakers had an offset tweeter. I noted that the leaning grille threw me off. I share a lot of things in my posts, often at the expense of going (arguably) way off topic. But I catch a lot of stuff for OPs when I go nuts, well, sometimes.

 

[3db]

You didn't get it wrong, but tweeter offset doesn't have anything to do with the question about MTM vs. TMM speaker layouts. I'm having a little fun yanking your chain .

It's finally Friday afternoon after the first long week back at work after the holidays. It was a rough week.

For a 4 day week, this sure has been a long one.