External Amps dont make a difference ...whaa?

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I'd still try lifting the ground rather than tying a ground between that and the avr.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
very true, same applies to the vehicle after an oil change and a car wash !
Don't forget how much better your car performs on a full tank of gas! That's why Amps make speakers better, afterall! All that power to "fill them up!..." If only we could double our gas capacity the way they say we are supposed to double our speakers' RMS power, our cars would really "bloom" with wider and deeper soundstage and greater clarity.
o_O:rolleyes::D

:cool:
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Where’s @TLS Guy on this topic of Separates vs AVR? :D

No matter what you believe, if you’ve always wanted to go with separates, then go for it.

To me it's just a matter of preference.

For my main system, I prefer separates. For my other systems I prefer AVRs.
Same here, Ideally I prefer to have the heat generating amps in their own enclosure and power supply...that said, I almost always refer AVR to others...for me, I've owned one AVR, but for the most part, I've run separates most of my life.

The only separates (sort of) system I'm referring is my brother-in-law's basement HT...fairly large room (7.2.4... 32'w x 22'd x 9.5' ceiling) a Denon 3600h + outlaw 7 ch amp.
 
AVUser001

AVUser001

Full Audioholic
Same here, Ideally I prefer to have the heat generating amps in their own enclosure and power supply...that said, I almost always refer AVR to others...for me, I've owned one AVR, but for the most part, I've run separates most of my life.

The only separates (sort of) system I'm referring is my brother-in-law's basement HT...fairly large room (7.2.4... 32'w x 22'd x 9.5' ceiling) a Denon 3600h + outlaw 7 ch amp.
I am also thinking of moving from my troubled Marantz SR7010 , to a streaming DAC(w/Volume Control) + beefy PowerAmp for my 2 channel system...,again not necessarily for SQ, but for the flexibility in DAC choices decoupled from power amplification(& heat). I'd like to invest & retain the power amp as long as possible, while tech refreshing the upstream(streamer/dac/preamp) as needed.

For now the Marantz 7010 is wonderfully driving my Focal Electras still breaking-in in my office going through room treatment(with help of REW measurements).
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
An interesting video from one of my favorite 'tubers about the placebo effect.


He just put it out today. It's more about how it works in the medical field, but there are actual physiological changes going on in our bodies and brains when we're being placebo'd. One woman even knew she was taking a placebo and it still worked! To go a step further, after the trial was over and she gave the placebo pills back her symptoms returned...

If your brain can convince your body and nervous system it's no longer in pain or suffering ill effects from a disease, I think that it's not that far a stretch for it to affect how we hear, taste and perceive any other input with the right suggestion or visual queue.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
An interesting video from one of my favorite 'tubers about the placebo effect.


He just put it out today. It's more about how it works in the medical field, but there are actual physiological changes going on in our bodies and brains when we're being placebo'd. One woman even knew she was taking a placebo and it still worked! To go a step further, after the trial was over and she gave the placebo pills back her symptoms returned...

If your brain can convince your body and nervous system it's no longer in pain or suffering ill effects from a disease, I think that it's not that far a stretch for it to affect how we hear, taste and perceive any other input with the right suggestion or visual queue.
Ya know, this ironic. I tried something similar. I’ve been calling my wife Lagertha for a long time, you know cause Katheryn Winnick. Crazy thing is it worked!!! She totally came after me with a sword!!!
Obviously not what I had in mind. So just remember to be careful with this stuff.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Ya know, this ironic. I tried something similar. I’ve been calling my wife Lagertha for a long time, you know cause Katheryn Winnick. Crazy thing is it worked!!! She totally came after me with a sword!!!
Obviously not what I had in mind. So just remember to be careful with this stuff.
Well duh. You're not supposed to call her "Lagertha" out of costume...
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Well duh. You're not supposed to call her "Lagertha" out of costume...
Wow! I’m 45 years old and still learning stuff! Maybe by the time I’m dead I’ll have learned everything!
 
F

Filmgeek47

Enthusiast
One edge case where separates (and therefore external amps) might make sense is for setups with a ton of speakers. Not a lot of AVRs out there (at least that I’ve seen) that will run 13 or 15 channels of speakers. with separates there’s plenty of options that will do that. So for example, an Atmos 9.1.6 setup would probably best be done with separates, assuming you’ve got the budget and the space.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
One edge case where separates (and therefore external amps) might make sense is for setups with a ton of speakers. Not a lot of AVRs out there (at least that I’ve seen) that will run 13 or 15 channels of speakers. with separates there’s plenty of options that will do that. So for example, an Atmos 9.1.6 setup would probably best be done with separates, assuming you’ve got the budget and the space.
Yeah for sure. Flexibility is a strong point of separates. As long as you have enough preouts!
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Wow! I’m 45 years old and still learning stuff! Maybe by the time I’m dead I’ll have learned everything!
(I don't believe in dropping rainbows on friends... so you get a smiley. :p
But seriously, Bill...
1581393446310.png

...Everything?)

:D
 
S

shkumar4963

Audioholic
I'd like to frame this a little differently for Adrian to perhaps understand it better.
We do have an expectation bias that a more expensive unit dedicated to a specific task would perform better, but as Peng says, it may perform better, but the difference is not likely to be audible!
But as far as the perception that it sounds better, don't look at it as simply the cost so much as that you have been anticipating that new amp. You have invested research in picking it and sacrificed time to earn the money to buy it.
I think food is a reasonable analogy as if you spent the last 2 hours preparing special food (or even sitting in the kitchen watching it being prepared), the anticipation is going to result in heightened attention to the taste of the food and you will enjoy it more than you would if you just walked in the door (not thinking about food)!
Similarly, if we spent the last 1/2 hour driving home thinking about listening to a favorite song on our system, that song will generally sound more profoundly great than it would if it just popped up on a shuffle play.
You can look at it as being more alert to the sound and thus taking in a little more nuance than you otherwise might, or you can think of it as biochemical endorphins/stimulants that your body generates from your anticipation!
In the end, we humans are ill-suited to doing fine comparisons of our sensory inputs. If you consider color, we use paint chips to ID the color we want with a bit of precision, because we know we cannot remember the exact specifics of a color to the level of precision that the paint chips offer. Sound is maybe even less so and there is no "paint chip" for sound!
Yeah, you can hear the difference between very good and poor speakers, but the difference between speakers is humongous when compared to the difference between modern competently designed amps (unless you are overloading one of the amps so it is not performing as designed)!

On the Crown, I would postpone judgement until you have the source of the noise resolved. It certainly has the potential to impact the sound!
Even so you simply cannot trust your ears unless you have removed knowledge of what you are listening to. That is why rigorous research requires double-blind testing!
Just as a fun demonstration of how our eyes can override what our ears hear, here is a 2 minute clip on the McGurk effect:
Expectation bias also works the other way around. When the expectations are too high, even a reasonably good food does not impress us.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
S

shkumar4963

Audioholic
Don't forget how much better your car performs on a full tank of gas! That's why Amps make speakers better, afterall! All that power to "fill them up!..." If only we could double our gas capacity the way they say we are supposed to double our speakers' RMS power, our cars would really "bloom" with wider and deeper soundstage and greater clarity.
o_O:rolleyes::D

:cool:
Not to digress, but I always felt that the car runs a lit better (more power, less noise, less vibration) when the tank is full.

Is it real or just a placebo effect?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Expectation bias also works the other way around. When the expectations are too high, even a reasonably good food does not impress us.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
There's also the "Nocebo Effect". Which is the placebo effect in reverse. For example, if you think an avr is going to perform poorly compared to a dedicated amplifier, then it'll perform poorly.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
One edge case where separates (and therefore external amps) might make sense is for setups with a ton of speakers. Not a lot of AVRs out there (at least that I’ve seen) that will run 13 or 15 channels of speakers. with separates there’s plenty of options that will do that. So for example, an Atmos 9.1.6 setup would probably best be done with separates, assuming you’ve got the budget and the space.
That's a rare case since most people don't have rooms larger than 18FT x 20FT x 10FT and they probably don't have any business using that many speakers. :D
 

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