External Amp...

[cfrizz]

Mouettus, what I highlighted in Selkec's post is the point of using a separate amp. It's not about how much louder they can go, it's about all the extra headroom the speakers now have and not trying pull something out of a receiver that it just doesn't have to give.

What you will hear with the amp is as Selkec said more details that you never heard before and what's more you will hear them at a low volume even better.

I have an Emotiva Xpa5 running my POlk Rti150's and it made a world of differencs from my Harman Kardon rec. They came alive and had alot more bass (tight bass) and I heard sounds I never knew were in the songs before. Also I do believe your speakers do dip down around 4ohms as do my rti150's even though the site says 8 ohms. I would love to get 2 xpa1's. 1000watts per channel will bring your speakers to life.

I still don't understand the point of using a power amp in an apt...On the other hand, I installed the full 5.1 setup I own and I really enjoy all the effects that those channels can deliver, even at low volumes.

 

[lsiberian]

I still don't understand the point of using a power amp in an apt...

I mean... mine is really well soundproofed and I have forgiving neighbors but still, I won't even take my RX-V1800 to half what it's capable of.

On the other hand, I installed the full 5.1 setup I own and I really enjoy all the effects that those channels can deliver, even at low volumes.

There are so many reasons for an external amp I can't even begin to explain them all.

But if you are using speakers that regularly drop to 4 ohms and that handle the upper lfe range. from like 150 to 50 hz. Then you will want an Amp to reduce distortion and deliver clean safe power to the speakers. If you are using standard bookshelves this would likely be unecessary depending on the efficiency of the drivers, but for most towers I've seen I recommend an external amp. I think it's a safer wiser option.

Plus with an external amp you can use a DCX 2496 to correct and crossover your mains with subs.

 

[greggp2]

Isiberian is right. For years, I drove my speakers with an AVR, like you are doing and thought, I'm not even turned up 70% on the volume, so why need an external amp. Getting an Amp isn't so you can play your system loud. It is so at low volume levels, your distortion is low. Whether you can hear it or not, your distortion level begins to increase exponentially as you increase your volume on your AVR. With a more powerful/external amp, you can listen at lower volume levels with much less distortion.

It will also bring out far better clarity and effects that you've never heard before in your music and movies... It's the best investment you can make to improving your sound quality next to room acoustics.

 

[greggp2]

You also don't have to spend a fortune to get a good Amp. Check out Emotiva, Behringer and Yamaha. They make really good, clean amps for much less than some of the higher end Audiophile companies.. Just keep in mind that if you get a Behringer, I've heard you have to replace the fan.. It's a bit noisy...

 

[Chopin_Guy]

You also don't have to spend a fortune to get a good Amp. Check out Emotiva, Behringer and Yamaha. They make really good, clean amps for much less than some of the higher end Audiophile companies.. Just keep in mind that if you get a Behringer, I've heard you have to replace the fan.. It's a bit noisy...

These have already been discussed....

 

[PENG]

Isiberian is right. For years, I drove my speakers with an AVR, like you are doing and thought, I'm not even turned up 70% on the volume, so why need an external amp. Getting an Amp isn't so you can play your system loud. It is so at low volume levels, your distortion is low. Whether you can hear it or not, your distortion level begins to increase exponentially as you increase your volume on your AVR. With a more powerful/external amp, you can listen at lower volume levels with much less distortion.

It will also bring out far better clarity and effects that you've never heard before in your music and movies... It's the best investment you can make to improving your sound quality next to room acoustics.

What you said may apply to certain extent to entry level AVR but IMHO not the case for AVRs such as the Arcam 200, Denon 38XX, Yamaha 1800, Onkyo 805, and above.

Once you get pass the entry level stuff, adding external amps mainly get you the flexibility to drive low impedance loads, improved headroom and ability to play louder, but won't necessarily get you more details and clarity at low listening levels as such. In such cases, upgrading speakers will likely yield more significant SQ improvements.

 

[cfrizz]

Sorry Peng, I had a Denon 38xx when I got my Parasound amp and it was precisely getting more details & clarity a lower volume that got me permanantly hooked on always having separate amplification.

I had NO idea that that was going to be the end result, but I'll never go back to just a receiver again.

I would say before buying new speakers, one should always give them some real power first to find out what they are really capable of producing, because a receiver just can't get it done.

What you said may apply to certain extent to entry level AVR but IMHO not the case for AVRs such as the Arcam 200, Denon 38XX, Yamaha 1800, Onkyo 805, and above.

Once you get pass the entry level stuff, adding external amps mainly get you the flexibility to drive low impedance loads, improved headroom and ability to play louder, but won't necessarily get you more details and clarity at low listening levels as such. In such cases, upgrading speakers will likely yield more significant SQ improvements.

 

[PENG]

Sorry Peng, I had a Denon 38xx when I got my Parasound amp and it was precisely getting more details & clarity a lower volume that got me permanantly hooked on always having separate amplification.

I had NO idea that that was going to be the end result, but I'll never go back to just a receiver again.

I would say before buying new speakers, one should always give them some real power first to find out what they are really capable of producing, because a receiver just can't get it done.

You have some hungry speakers that are beyond the 3802's capability, and by the way when I typed 38XX I was thinking 3805 and up. Even then, they still wouldn't make your RTAs happy. I agree power matters, but in many cases speakers and room acoustics matter more. Anyway, I think you know I love amps (my weak point) so I guess I shouldn't be acting like I am reverse biased.

 

[cfrizz]

I never knew my speakers were so hungry for power & thought they sounded great till I gave them some real power & shockingly discovered differently!

To think, I got the amp in order to upgrade my speakers, well my 19 year old speakers are still with me & still going strong!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Same old debate

This reminds me of an old article I recall from The Audio Critic in which they did a double-blinded study comparing a $300 Pioneer Receiver vs. some expensive amps (Boulder).

TAC Result - they could not even hear the difference, which blows everyone away.

TAC Conclusion - all amps sound alike in double-blinded studies, but the sound processors differ in sound quality.

I think there are too many variables to consider - speakers, room acoustics, processors, and original source.

With all that being said, just being an Audioholic makes you want to buy an external amp whether you need one or not.

Heck, I'm thinking of getting a 1000 watts/4 ohms x 5 Ch amp ($3K) myself even though I don't think I will ever hear a difference.

 

[Chopin_Guy]

Does anyone here know if the older Sunfire Cinema Grand 5 channel amps put out more power to just two channels. I know in general most 5 channel amps only pushsing two channels do indeed put out more juice to just two channels. Cause these amps can be had at a resonable price used and put out good power...

 

[Chopin_Guy]

With all that being said, just being an Audioholic makes you want to buy an external amp whether you need one or not.

Heck, I'm thinking of getting a 1000 watts/4 ohms x 5 Ch amp ($3K) myself even though I don't think I will ever hear a difference.

I am right there with you on this...although I'm only looking for 2 channels of good power...

 

[Matt34]

Just make sure the new amp provides good synergy with your existing equipment and the the sound signature is to your liking. The D-sonic will provide better depth and tighter bass while the Wyred will have a a better sound stage and clarity up top. Don't forget the more you spend on the interconnects the better. You can do all this from memory at different showroom floors over a couple weeks time too....seriously. I have some internet strangers that can back me up and confirm all this too plus even my wife noticed a difference.

 

[Chopin_Guy]

I agree fully...those d-sonic amps are starting to look more and more nice....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just make sure the new amp provides good synergy with your existing equipment and the the sound signature is to your liking. The D-sonic will provide better depth and tighter bass while the Wyred will have a a better sound stage and clarity up top. Don't forget the more you spend on the interconnects the better. You can do all this from memory at different showroom floors over a couple weeks time too....seriously. I have some internet strangers that can back me up and confirm all this too plus even my wife noticed a difference.

***LOL****

No. When I start to say that MY wife can tell the difference, you know I'm kidding!!!

She thinks Bose sounds just as good as B&W.

 

[Matt34]

***LOL****

No. When I start to say that MY wife can tell the difference, you know I'm kidding!!!

She thinks Bose sounds just as good as B&W.

Sorry, I was a little light-headed when I posted that from all the pixie dust and snake oil present on another forum I was visiting.

 

[PENG]

***LOL****

She thinks Bose sounds just as good as B&W.

No kidding!! Mine would typically say something like: "no difference whatsoever"

 

[Alex2507]

When I start to say that MY wife can tell the difference, you know I'm kidding!!!

When I say my g/f can notice a difference, I'm serious.

Matt,

That post was great.

 

[PENG]

Does anyone here know if the older Sunfire Cinema Grand 5 channel amps put out more power to just two channels. I know in general most 5 channel amps only pushsing two channels do indeed put out more juice to just two channels. Cause these amps can be had at a resonable price used and put out good power...

It has just one single power supply so I am pretty sure it will give you more for 2 channel use. It is hard to predict how much more because at 425 WPC it could be closer to being amp (or power transistors) limited compared to 200 WPC amps.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Sorry Peng, I had a Denon 38xx when I got my Parasound amp and it was precisely getting more details & clarity a lower volume .....

Perhaps the comparison method was unreliable? No reason for this to happen at lower volumes.