external (2 channel) amplifier vs. subwoofer

[krikri]

Kew,

To answer some of your questions:
1. a woodveneer look is important. It needs to blend nicely, are there alternatives to the w12 in woodveneer.
2. I only have the "problem" when listening to music in surround modus. I clearly notice the bass notes are played louder in the tracs then if i select direct modus.
3. it is indeed a large room. However the setup creates a good sound buble within the seating area. Bass tones in movies can provide some good vibrations even at lower volumes. In fact the distoron problem is related only to music not movies.

 

[KEW]

Kew,

To answer some of your questions:
1. a woodveneer look is important. It needs to blend nicely, are there alternatives to the w12 in woodveneer.
2. I only have the "problem" when listening to music in surround modus. I clearly notice the bass notes are played louder in the tracs then if i select direct modus.
3. it is indeed a large room. However the setup creates a good sound buble within the seating area. Bass tones in movies can provide some good vibrations even at lower volumes. In fact the distortion problem is related only to music not movies.

1. Are your Silver 8's rosenut or walnut?
How large of a sub are you willing to entertain?

2. That seems strange. Put the system in whatever situation causes distortion, but do the test I suggested with speakers set to small and an imposed 60Hz roll-off. If it is still a problem, there may be something wrong with the surround mode setting. I don't know much about the Yamaha settings. All I can think of is the LFE signal is being fed to the mains. What are you listening to? Is it music with extreme bass? or mainstream?

3. That is very strange. Movies should challenge the bass more than music. Now you would be more likely to detect distortion if it was music rather than an explosion (because who knows what an explosion really sounds like aside from loud and low).

Another test is to disconnect the surround speakers and see if that remedies the problem. If so it may be that your receiver is malfunctioning. Be sure to turn the receiver off and make sure the speaker wires will not touch and short out. I usually just unplug the negative wire from the back of the speaker and make sure it will not contact the positive wire/terminal. If things are clean when you disconnect the surrounds, and you are certain the distortion comes from the mains, it would seem that the load of the surrounds pushes the receiver beyond its limits. But that still doesn't explain why movies would be fine!

 

[krikri]

Ill do’the test over the weekend To see if it makes a difference.

i did dcheck the surround vs. Direct on two receivers, one yamaha the second denon ( denon reffers to this as straight mode).
the denon was twice as powerfull, but the same problem arose, altough at much louder volume levels.

I noticed that the surround modus is making the bass sound slightly louder. At lower volumes it does not cause a distortion.

When played loud however some music tracks with deep bass result in some distortion. This happens with e.g. massive attack, angel and daft punk, the game has changed.

This distortion i noticed only on the silver 8, not my surround speakers. Silver 8 is currently set to large, the surrounds ( silver1) are set to small.

 

[krikri]

In regards to the veneer, the silver 8 are black oak veneer.

 

[KEW]

Black oak veneer is pretty easy to find!

It sounds like a sub will solve your problem, but if you switch the Silver 8's to small, that would assure it.

How big of a sub will accommodate WAF?

Do you want the tightest sub for music or are you willing to compromise on music sound quality to get prodigious output for movie LFE?

 

[krikri]

Music rules im much more critical when listening to music vs. movies.

a silver w12 size is about right. I understand this type of size is not sufficiant according to my room size, but that's not something that concerns me a lot

When in the sweestspot i just would like to have a good controlled bass performance. My speakers are approx 8,5 to 9 feet from my listening position.

 

[KEW]

Unfortunately, I cannot find any real data on the Monitor Audio W12. It may not be a bad subwoofer, but I have learned it is better to buy a known quantity than gamble.
As a reference, the MA W12 is 14-9/16 x 13-3/8 x 16-1/8 inches and 44.25 lbs.
1) The first sub I would suggest is the Rythmik E15HP ($1274 shipped). It is 17 X 19 X 21.5 (19" w/o grill) 104 lbs, with a larger 15" driver. It is the tightest sub I know of.
2) If you must go smaller, I would recommend the Rythmik F12 ($940 shipped). It gives up 3.5 dB (at 20Hz), but gets the size down to 15.75" x 15.75" x 17" (18-1/2" Deep with grille) and 80 lbs.
3) Another good option; not as tight, but still tight, is the SVS SB13-Ultra ($1600 shipped). It is 17.4 X 17.4 X 20.4 (18.5 w/o grill) and 92 lbs. If you need to keep the grill in place, be sure this one looks okay to you. It is black sheet metal - not the common grill look at all.
4) Last, I will mention the JL Audio E112 ($1900). It is not so tight as the Rythmiks or the SB13-Ultra, but it is compact and powerful 15.5”x16.23”x18.39” and 73 lbs.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/73616-jl-audio-e112-subwoofer-review.html
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/e-sub-e110-e112

Here is an excellent comparison between the SVS SB13-Ultra and the Rythmik E15HP. Spend a little time looking at the charts at the end as well. you can see how much quicker the Rythmik is, but the SVS is still damn good compared to the competition.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1471574-rythmik-e15-vs-svs-sb13-ultra-4.html#post24544440

I hope you can see fit to stretch the dimensions a little bit.
The W12 is very compact! The only 12" sub I know in the same size range is the SVS SB-2000 ($800) 14.6"h x 14.2"w x 15.4"d and 34.4 lbs. I am not at all sure it would outperform the W12. It is not nearly so tight as the SB13-Ultra. Again, you have the sheet metal grill.

Some notes:
All of the above have a black woodgrain. You should ask for a sample of the finish so you can make sure it will work with your mains to your satisfaction.
Ignore the wattage spec on the Rythmik amps. Their amps seem under-powered compared to the competition, but the servo system is more efficient, so you cannot reasonably compare watts as a measure of end performance.

IMHO, that is your short list.

One more question. Do you have space for two subs?

 

[krikri]

Kew,

Thxs a lot for all this great feedback.
do you know if the Rythmik E15HP in black woodgrain, is based on a real veneer, or is it a vinyl veneer (like the svs)?