Exclusive Denon AVR-3805 First Look!

[Duffinator]

How do I get "on screen display" through component video with the 3805?

All of the OSD's are available with the component cables and you do not need a composite connection. The problem is with the source input into the receiver. When watching a component input such as progressive scan DVD or an HD input you will not be able to see the master volume and input OSD. The setup menus are still visible regardless of input source through the component cables to your monitor. I only have one set of component cables connected from my 3805 to my monitor. With my CD player and Media MVP (480i source with s-video connection) the volume and input OSD is visible. This is my biggest complaint with this receiver and other in it's price class, I want my OSD all the time.

 

[mwc]

This is my biggest complaint with this receiver and other in it's price class, I want my OSD all the time.

Ditto! I don't like it either.

 

[Audioholics]

I like it the way it is. The only way to get what you want involves having the output change/lose resolution each time you allow the overlay to appear on top of the progressive scan picture - or to pay an additional hundred$ of dollars in R&D (plaus actual component costs) for a system that somehow overlays the OSD over progressive scan at equal resolution.

I'll take the current system and save the money.

Remember, every feature costs money - so watch what you ask for in the hopes that R&D can stay focused on the more important things like audio formats and connectivity options.

 

[mwc]

Ok. I get the point. But most of you younger fellers' probably don't have a problem seeing the volume level on the receiver's front panel from 10'-12' away. Maybe the answer would be to make the volume numbers on the receiver's front panel bigger so that some of us older farts can see what volume level were at.

And while were on the subject of receiver features, why did Denon ditch the video switching feature from the remote. My old Denon 3200 had it and it was great for watching video while listening to music. BTW, I'm still able to use this feature by "learning" it from the old 3200 remote to my HTM MX-700.

I've used Denon products since the 70s and have always liked them and one of the things that kept me coming back to Denon was thier attention to these little details. I know it sounds like I'm nit-picking but I really do love the 3805.

 

[Duffinator]

Ok. I get the point. But most of you younger fellers' probably don't have a problem seeing the volume level on the receiver's front panel from 10'-12' away. Maybe the answer would be to make the volume numbers on the receiver's front panel bigger so that some of us older farts can see what volume level were at.

I'm neither an old fart or a young one but I have a difficult time reading the front panel from 13' away. Where I could read it on my HK AVR85.

Clint, isn't the whole point of doing video switching convience? To me it is so I want my master volume visible on all inputs. Isn't the volume OSD available on the 5805 for all inputs? It can't be that difficult to do and when I'm watching a DVD movie I don't change the volume a lot so the PQ degrading for two seconds isn't going to kill me. Plus the volume ramps up too quickly and the half steps in the volume control are overkill so it's more difficult to set the volume exactly where you want it. I didn't have this problem on my HK receivers. Audio performance is the most important feature but from my perspective Denon et all have only gone 3/4 of the way on this. The manufacturers could save some money by eliminating several of the composite, s-video, and analog audio inputs. Drop the analog inputs for multichannel audio and you save some more (this requires the manufacturers to get their act together and agree on a common digital input). Beyond that the 3805 is a tremendous value and full of lots of features.

 

[RMK!]

eh...what's that you say?

Ok. I get the point. But most of you younger fellers' probably don't have a problem seeing the volume level on the receiver's front panel from 10'-12' away. Maybe the answer would be to make the volume numbers on the receiver's front panel bigger so that some of us older farts can see what volume level were at.

And while were on the subject of receiver features, why did Denon ditch the video switching feature from the remote. My old Denon 3200 had it and it was great for watching video while listening to music. BTW, I'm still able to use this feature by "learning" it from the old 3200 remote to my HTM MX-700.

I've used Denon products since the 70s and have always liked them and one of the things that kept me coming back to Denon was thier attention to these little details. I know it sounds like I'm nit-picking but I really do love the 3805.

It is possible that vision isn't your only problem. Maybe a braille based remote would work. Just a tip from one old fart to another

 

[mwc]

Hey, I can work the remote with my eyes closed. I've got the buttons memorized so I'll be ok until the memory goes.

 

[Malice]

Bi-Amping Front

Hi all,

When listening to a stereo source (COAX output from DVD playing normal CD), the sound appears to improve when I select VDP's input to be COAX instead of the Front Pre-Out (Analogue). Is there any reason why this would be the case? Does it suggest poor interconnects between Pre-Out and VDP analogue input?

Thanks

 

[Duffinator]

Hi all,

When listening to a stereo source (COAX output from DVD playing normal CD), the sound appears to improve when I select VDP's input to be COAX instead of the Front Pre-Out (Analogue). Is there any reason why this would be the case? Does it suggest poor interconnects between Pre-Out and VDP analogue input?

Thanks

It's not crystal clear to me what you are doing here. You should have the digital input set to DVD as that's the device you are using. If you are using the VDP input from your front pre-outs I would not use VDP as an input from a device under any circumstances. You could be getting some sort of feedback loop going and if that's the case I'm sure it's not good for the receiver. Your analog interconnects from front pre-out to VDP should not be causing this issue. The VDP input (from front pre-out) is providing the power to your front speakers as long as you have VDP selected as your zone 2 input.

 

[Malice]

It's not crystal clear to me what you are doing here. You should have the digital input set to DVD as that's the device you are using. If you are using the VDP input from your front pre-outs I would not use VDP as an input from a device under any circumstances. You could be getting some sort of feedback loop going and if that's the case I'm sure it's not good for the receiver. Your analog interconnects from front pre-out to VDP should not be causing this issue. The VDP input (from front pre-out) is providing the power to your front speakers as long as you have VDP selected as your zone 2 input.

I followed the instructions to the letter for Bi-amping the front speakers. So VDP is on Zone 3, not 2, but that is immaterial (I think).

When listening to a DVD movie in DD or DTS, the bi-amping of the front speakers need to pick up the front "signal" from the pre-outs for the front. Hence the need to loop the interconnects from the pre-out to the VDP inputs.

However, when playing CD music in (plain) stereo (not 5.1) on the DVD player, the signal from the pre-outs for the front will be exactly the same signals which are thrown down the COAX or Optical connections (which I have both on the DVD to the AMP - for comparison purposes).

On the Digital Assign menu the "normal" setting for the VDP is "OFF" which means it looks to the interconnect (analogue) for the signal to drive the bass drivers in the bi-amp set up. However, as you know I can change the input on the VDP to COAX(1 or 2) or OPT (1-5). When listening to stereo music the sound I get from having VDP source set to COAX and DVD to OPTICAL (the 3805 does not allow the same input to be be assigned to multiple sources) is better than the analogue connection. What I mean by better is if I was just to do a like for like listening test on a CD playing on the DVD player and change the source from OFF (Analogue) to COAX to OPTICAL, the COAX "sound" is more full, extended and controlled bass compared to the OPT, and the Analogue mid-range is loose and woolly.

So all I was trying to understand is whether selecting COAX as the input source to VDP (as opposed to analogue via pre-out) for CD music, and getting a better controlled bass, would have any implications or inferences for my set up. i.e. are the interconnects to the VDP of inferior quality cf the quality of the signal down the COAX.

As my previous kit was only for 2 channel music, I was keen to do a comparison with the 3805 biamping my B&W 604's on two channel music CD's. As I switched between OFF, COAX and OPT for the DVD input playing the music CD I was able to compare the performance of each connection, and then I "stumbled" on selecting VDP's digital source as COAX (driven from the DVD output playing a CD) rather than the "OFF" (Analogue") on the pre-out set up. The control on the bass was awesome using the COAX to drive the VDP on Zone 3 for BiAmping.

I realise I haven't explained too well what I've done, but this is my first ever HT set up and as yet I have had the amp for 5 days and only scratched the surface! My brain is hurting from all the excitement!

 

[Duffinator]

OK I now understand WHY you are doing it. I've had my 3805 bi-amped for the past year. I'm not sure why it sounds better using the digital input into the VDP but I still stand by what I stated before: "I would not use VDP as an input from a device under any circumstances." and I'll add while using that input for bi-amping. You are using the VDP as the input for the pre-out input so you can bi-amp and all I can think of is you are doubling up the input signal to the lows and that's why it sounds fuller. It may not be hurting the receiver but I wouldn't do it. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge can give you a better explanation of what you are doing.

Regardless, using the bi-amp capabilities as outlined in the Audioholics review, you are still using your digital input as the source so there is no reason to do anything other than the procedures in the article.

 

[Malice]

OK I now understand WHY you are doing it. I've had my 3805 bi-amped for the past year. I'm not sure why it sounds better using the digital input into the VDP but I still stand by what I stated before: "I would not use VDP as an input from a device under any circumstances." and I'll add while using that input for bi-amping. You are using the VDP as the input for the pre-out input so you can bi-amp and all I can think of is you are doubling up the input signal to the lows and that's why it sounds fuller.

I do not understand the logic to those statements.

AFAICT the 3805's assigment of the input on any device is determined by the Digital Assign Function, which is a bit of a misnomer as the default setting is analogue input. If the setting is "OFF" the Analogue inputs (RCA / Phono) are used. If set to COAX the COAX is used and the Analogue ignored. The same for OPT. So at any time there is only ever one source of input to VDP for Bi-amping. It may be analogue or it may be digital.

The "quality" aspect could be the IC connection from the pre-outs to the VDP input are relatively poor, and therefore the quality of the bass is not as good. (The A_B comaprison on Analogue/COAX/OPT when not biamping showed COAX better at handling bass). But I think it is more likely to do with processing. The pre-outs on the amp are analogue. So the amp will have had to carry out D-A conversions for the front pre-outs. That in turn gets a A-D conversion on the input to the VDP, and then D-A for the amplifier section. Now if the VDP's input was the digital stream from the COAX then there will be just the one D-A for the amplification section.

Is my logic/underdstanding of the operation correct?

It may not be hurting the receiver but I wouldn't do it. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge can give you a better explanation of what you are doing.

Regardless, using the bi-amp capabilities as outlined in the Audioholics review, you are still using your digital input as the source so there is no reason to do anything other than the procedures in the article.

I disagree. See previous comments. The pre-outs are analogue, not digital. The pre-out means pre to amplification, not pre to D-A processsing. The signal has already been processed to analogue and then tapped off for the pre-outs. You could use the the pre-outs directly into a 2 channel amp with no digital processign whatsoever and you could drive the bass drivers that way (and people do). For 2 channel stereo I believe that Biamping using the coax as the digital source on VDP for the bass is the better option than analogue pre-outs for the front, and in no way compromises the amp whatsoever. IMO.

 

[Duffinator]

Is my logic/underdstanding of the operation correct?

So are you disconnecting the analog preouts from the front speakers into VDP??? I guess I just don't understand what you are doing. Regardless of where you assign your digital input, the signal is still alalog coming out of the preout and into VDP. The zone 2 and 3 functions ONLY carry analog signals and will not distribute a digital signal. Have you taken an SPL meter and measured the difference between the two different setups?

 

[Malice]

Mmmm eating crow and humble pie for dinner tonight........

Well, one sure way to test my theory about digital input vs analogue, unplug the pre-outs and test the sound with VDP set to COAX1. Result? No bass at all.

Sure you're right 100%. Even with Assigmnet to COAX the VDP input picked up the analogue signal from the pre-outs.

However, this test did go to show that one of my interconnects was not seated properly because when I unplugged it it made no difference!! There was no signal to the VDP left channel. x 10

I wasn't trying to do anything other than make an observation based on a dodgy interconnect and even dodgier assumptions. Apologies for wasting your time, but I am somewhat wiser. "Thank God" I hear you say!

Cheers.

 

[Duffinator]

I wasn't trying to do anything other than make an observation based on a dodgy interconnect and even dodgier assumptions. Apologies for wasting your time, but I am somewhat wiser. "Thank God" I hear you say!

Cheers.

No problem, we're all here to learn a little and have some fun at the same time.

 

[ttimbie]

Speaker Pop when pausing

Hello,
I've had the Denon AVR-3805 for about a year now and have been very happy with it. The last several weeks, however, it has developed a popping noise from the Surround Back Left (SBL) speaker whenever I pause and restart my DVR or DVD player. It is ONLY this speaker, not the SBR or SL or SR. I've switched the speaker lines between SBL and SBR to test whether it is the speaker or speaker lines and the pop moves to the SBR so it is not the speaker.... it is the signal coming from the SBL channel in the amp. I've tried changing surround modes and nothing takes it out. I can mute before pausing and that solves the problem, but I shouldn't have to do that. Any suggestions or does this need a warranty repair?

Thanks for your help.
Tom

 

[TheBigPicture!]

3805 master and slave AMP?

I've seen the 3805 price drop and want to know if I can use two identical AVR 3805 units as master & slave such that the second unit is merely acting as a power amp so that I can tri-amp 4 speakers and bi amp the 5th center channel.

It is my guess that this is not reliably possible; much less wife friendly.

Please replay if you have a strong understanding of the feasibility of this scenario.

Thanks

 

[BartJY]

Loss of picture question

I’ve had the AVA 3805 for a few years now and one thing I’ve notice is when watching one of my VHS players, in normal mode, periodically the picture goes off for a few seconds then comes back on. Also when fast-forwarding a playing tape both of my VHS decks periodically loose the picture for a few moments then comes back on. Both signals from the players are going through the 3805. Why do you suppose this is happening?

Thanks
Bart

 

[tlparker]

Why not use Auto-EQ-calib with front bi-amp?

I was thinking about how the auto-eq setting things works and the statement made during the explanation of how to bi-amp the surround back channels to be used along with the fronts when I got to thinking: Why can't you still use the auto-eq? Sure, the distance would be off for the surround back's, but you could just manually go in and make that distance the same as the fronts. And then you'd probably have to go in and much with the surround back settings manually, but at least you'd have all the other settings done, no? I'm sure I'm missing something horribly obvious here, so come on and help pull me foot out of me mouth.

 

[tlparker]

I was thinking about how the auto-eq setting things works and the statement made during the explanation of how to bi-amp the surround back channels to be used along with the fronts when I got to thinking: Why can't you still use the auto-eq? Sure, the distance would be off for the surround back's, but you could just manually go in and make that distance the same as the fronts. And then you'd probably have to go in and much with the surround back settings manually, but at least you'd have all the other settings done, no? I'm sure I'm missing something horribly obvious here, so come on and help pull me foot out of me mouth.

Oh yeah, and as another side note, there's no particular reasons to use VDP other than it's often unused, right? I mean, if there were another audio input that wasn't being used, that would work just as well, wouldn't it?

I've never forgive Denon for not allowing the inputs on this thing to be edited. A frigging feature on my $300 Sony receiver and I'm stuck having to call my ReplayTV DVR "VCR1". Drives other people nuts who try to use the system.