Exclusive Denon AVR-3805 First Look!

[asterix]

Biamping with the Denon 3805

I have an Audiolab 8000A integrated amp and EPOS ES11 speakers which are currently biwired. Planning to get a Denon3805 and use my Audiolab (it can be also be used as a power amp) to biamp my front channels. I am thinking I can connect the pre-out's from the Denon to the power-amp in's of the Audiolab to achieve this... Denon to drive low freqs, Audiolab for high freqs.

Can someone let me know what issues I might face with gain matching, and if they have had experience trying something like this with the Denon?

Thanks in advance!

Asterix

 

[gene]

Bad idea. Do not mix and match amps for biamping purposes unless they have the same overall gain structure otherwise you won't properly match levels between the mid/tweets and woofers.

Unless you can vary the gain of your amp to match the Denon amp you will likely have a mismatch.

IF your amp does have a variable gain setting, connect the fullrange speaker to each amp separately, setting the master volume loud enough so you measure about 80dB on your SPL meter at a fixed distance. Adjust the gain on your amp until you hit the same SPL level you recorded from the Denon internal amp.

 

[asterix]

Gain matching

Thanks, Gene. The Audiolab does not have a variable gain provision. Guess this means I would have to retire it in the new setup

Do you have any suggestions on how I could continue to use this wonderful 10 yr old amp (which I am extremely pleased with) with a new AV receiver? To drive the rear surrounds maybe? (Clutching at straws...)

 

[laffeaux]

Bi Amping Question

After reading the Denon review I had a question about bi-amping other recievers.

I have an Onkyo TX-NR801. I don't use the full 7.1 capability or zone 2 feature. My speakers do allow for bi-amping (currently they are bi-wired). Can I use the zone-2 output on my reciever to bi-amp my speakers?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ericlhyman]

Is there a way to ensure that the receiver sets the front speakers to small and provides correct automatic room equalization settings accordingly?

 

[Seismo]

AVR-3895 Bass management problem

Hi,

I'm a new comer on this site...and I need help with a strange problem that I have.

My Home Theatre setup is built around the AVR-3805/DVD-5900 combo. My
problem is as follows:

The Sub woofer (Paradigm servo-15) will not come on with all analog 2 CH sources (CD, DVD, TV,Tuner) when the receiver is in Dolby PLII (5.1 setup) Music/Cinema or DTS NEO Music/Cinema. The speaker setup is; FL=FR=C=LARGE and SUR A=Small.

All Digital sources (DTS or Dolby) run normally with the same speaker
setup.

The sub woofer mode is set to LFE in the 3805 settings.

If I set the Centre speaker for example to Small then the sub comes on.

I have read the Denon book (French and English version) so many times I am
sick of it....I did check the setup many times. I also tried to replace
the subwoofer cable. I also tried the microprocessor initialisation as
per page 87 instructions in the manual. Locally I did not find any
answer yet either from the dealer or Denon Canada (phone conversation).
I am hoping that you will come up with a good suggestion because I don't
really want to send the unit back for repairs and be without it for a
long period. I really hope you can help me.

BTW, a friend of mine has the same equipment and he does not have the same problem.

Anxiously waiting for help,

Thanks

Seismo

 

[MDS]

If you set the L/R/C to large, then the bass will not be redirected to the sub - they get a full range signal. Only the LFE will be sent to the sub.

If the Denon has a setting like LFE+MAIN, Both, or Plus (varies from receiver to receiver - my Onkyo calls it 'Double Bass') then bass will be redirected to the sub in addition to the large speakers.

Generally, its better to set all speakers to small, sub=yes, with an appropriate crossover frequency. Then all bass below the crossover will be sent to the sub, in addition to LFE in DD tracks.

 

[Seismo]

Anonymous --- If you set the L/R/C to large, then the bass will not be redirected to the sub - they get a full range signal. Only the LFE will be sent to the sub.

Thanks Anonymous,

I agree with you that all speakers set to large get a full range signal and that the bass will not go to the sub. In this case, I expect the sub to take over below the crossover frequency when the surround speakers are set to small.

Seismo

 

[keenan]

If the Denon has a setting like LFE+MAIN, Both, or Plus (varies from receiver to receiver - my Onkyo calls it 'Double Bass') then bass will be redirected to the sub in addition to the large speakers.

The Denon 3805 does have a LFE+MAIN setting. The Denon also can create a .1 LFE output for any 2ch stereo source by the use of a parallel circuit used in conjunction with the stereo input.

 

[WelshDog]

Geeked out on auto setup

I have a bad habit of doing things the hard way, or at least the most complicated way. So I read the documents on auto setup and decided that if Denon suggested that a Behringer ECM8000 was a good mic to use for auto setup then it would be okay for me. I also believe that during the design and testing of the 3805 auto setup system the engineers probably used an ECM8000. After their work was finished an affordable mic was designed to fit the system. Don't know if this is true but it seems likely.

So I got a ECM8000 cheap from Instrument Pro plus a $15 rebate from Behringer. Then acquired a mic preamp made by ART called the Micromix. This premap is acceptable, but a better choice would be one with more gain on the unbalanced output (such as the M-Audio Audio Buddy). I borrowed the Radio Shack SPL meter and got a RMS multimeter from work. Made an XLR to RCA cable and I was ready to go.

I followed the Denon procedure exactly and everything worked as expected. I did try a couple of different mic positions and got my best results with the mic very slightly in front of the actual listening position.

I was a little confused when setting the SPL (I used 80db) since there was no indication of channel level on the OSD. The front panel shows a level in db, but it doesn't seem to be the main volume level. This level is reset to 0db each time you reenter speaker setup/channel levels area. I guess this really doesn't matter since at this point all you are doing is making sure your mic and preamp are going to provide the Denon with the correct gain.

Upon reviewing the results I noticed that Auto Setup had selected large for speaker size which is incorrect. Tried again with same results. After doing some reading here and in the manual I set the crossover freq to 120hz instead of 100. Voila! Speaker size now set to small and overall sound balance better.

So I'm pretty happy with the sound right now. I'll run the setup again after moving some furniture and making some adjustments to speaker angles etc. The room is far from optimum as it is a common living room with some open wall areas on one side, solid wall on the other, windows on the ends. I'm now thinking about adding speakers in the ceiling for a 7.1 configuration.

 

[satchmo]

Remote for the 3805

Newbie here. I would have done a more detailed search, but there is over 350+ threads. You guyz love your 3805! I am seriously looking into a purchase of the 3805. I have done my research and it has what I am looking for in a high end A/V receiver. I currently own a Denon 1404 and, allthough usable, not fulfilling. My biggest hesitation on the 3805 is the remote. I am patient, so learning to use correctly is okay. I did go down to the local Tweeter and fully examined the device and yes looks like in 18 months it would break. Any advise? All comments welcome, for my decision is hinging on this matter alone.

Also, locally it retails for $1200. On ebay some of those wholesellers are listing the 3805 (A-stock;new in box) for @$900. Have any of your forum experts purchased major electronics off those ebay listings? Anyone purchase a 3805 and happy with purchase? If so please recommend. After taxes that route can save me almost $350.

Thanks for any replies and I now I can rest easy b/c I have admitted to being an audioholic.

Pops

 

[flyv65]

FWIW, the remote is a love/hate thing: I think it's easy to use and operates the rest of my stack with no problems (mostly Denon stuff as well). There are a number of people who rather have their genitalia pounded flat with a wooden mallet than keep the factory remote. To each his/her own.

As far as e-Bay purchases of Denon gear goes-bear in mind that if the seller isn't recognized by Denon your warranty is kaput. I bought my 3805 from Soundtracks here in Denver during a sale when I got 18 months same as cash and an additional 20% off of the sale price...so I didn't have to look online for a retailer. Hope it works out for you.

Bryan...I hear the new 48xx model is coming out soon...

 

[satchmo]

What is the 48xx? Is it the new version of the 3805? with a better remote? Also, flyv65, what other denon products do you use. I am upgrading my receiver first only to move toward a 2910 or 3910? thanks. Satch'

 

[Zarg]

Live in California?

Also, locally it retails for $1200. On ebay some of those wholesellers are listing the 3805 (A-stock;new in box) for @$900. Have any of your forum experts purchased major electronics off those ebay listings? Anyone purchase a 3805 and happy with purchase? If so please recommend. After taxes that route can save me almost $350.

Thanks for any replies and I now I can rest easy b/c I have admitted to being an audioholic.

Pops

Hey Mr. Armstrong,

1. If you live in CA, try Pacific Sales. I picked up my new, in the box, warranteed, Denon 3805 for less than $900.00.

2. I don't like the remote. But it's not all that difficult to learn -- it took me about a week to understand 99% of everything I use, including system set up options. And I was a newbie too. Even my wife uses it.

Good luck!

 

[flyv65]

What is the 48xx? Is it the new version of the 3805? with a better remote? Also, flyv65, what other denon products do you use. I am upgrading my receiver first only to move toward a 2910 or 3910? thanks. Satch'

The 4802 was a Denon AV reccy that slotted in between the 3803 and the 5803. Now that Denon has come out with the 3805 and the 5805, there were a few good guesses that the 4802 would be "bumped" to a 4805... only Denon seems to have skipped their usual nomenclature and gone to the 4806 instead. The rumour is that it is once again positioned between the 58xx and the 38xx (possibly to include the room EQ technology in the 5805 as reviewed here in Audioholics). I think they're supposed to run about $3500 and come out this spring.

I've obviously got the 3805 for my receiver, and I've run it with the 4800 (5-disc carousel) and with the 2910 DVD player concurrently. I used the 4800 for just cds for background music (you know, parties, projects around the house, etc.) when I got the 2910, but found that I wasn't throwing a stack on to play as much anymore, so I sold it-but they were simple programming for the remote, and carried all the functions I used for them without having to run the learning functions.

Bryan...hope this helps...

 

[Jason Coleman]

...for my decision is hinging on this matter alone.

First of all, it seems like a stupid thing to hinge your decision on...come on, it's only a remote control. Christ, the 3805 is a smokin' AVR that has more features and options than most of us will ever even think of using. So the remote has issues...oh well. I don't particularly like the remote, but I wouldn't second guess the 3805 because of this. Some people like the remote (Mort...you sly dog!), some people don't like it. You won't know until you use it in your environment. For me, my room is way too bright for the remote to be functional in any kind of daylight. If I had a dedicated HT, it would certainly be a different story. I simply programmed my old POS Sony universal to do everything that the 969 does and put the 969 on the bottom shelf of the coffee table. No big deal...certainly not a dealbreaker!

Jason

 

[Duffinator]

First of all, it seems like a stupid thing to hinge your decision on...come on, it's only a remote control. Christ, the 3805 is a smokin' AVR that has more features and options than most of us will ever even think of using. So the remote has issues...oh well. I don't particularly like the remote, but I wouldn't second guess the 3805 because of this. Some people like the remote (Mort...you sly dog!), some people don't like it. You won't know until you use it in your environment. For me, my room is way too bright for the remote to be functional in any kind of daylight. If I had a dedicated HT, it would certainly be a different story. I simply programmed my old POS Sony universal to do everything that the 969 does and put the 969 on the bottom shelf of the coffee table. No big deal...certainly not a dealbreaker!

Jason

I totally agree with Jason on the remote issue. I use my 3805 with an MX 500.

You may want to try a refurbished unit at Dakmart for under $900 delivered. Dakmart provides a one year warranty that is honored by Denon. I personally think that's a better option than buying off the internet without any warranty.

 

[Jason Coleman]

With the 3805 being almost a year old, I would think that you could get a pretty good price at a B&M for a new one. I paid <$1000 at my local shop the day the 3805's landed.

Jason

 

[shokhead]

I havent seen any DTS ES encoded disc's.

 

[Audiosouse]

Connect both digital and analogue outputs from source

Strangely, when I change the tv channel on my cable box (a/v routed through my 3805) the sound will sometimes mute, requiring that I turn the receiver off and on to re-engage the sound. Anyone else experience this?

Try Connecting both digital and analogue outputs from your cable box. Digital cable is rarely always digital. I have my Motorola box set up this way and one of the best things about the 3805 is that it recognizes the signal and routes it to the appropriate input instantly. So when I'm watching an analogue channel, it switches to the analogue input from the cable box. When I switch to a digital channel, it switches to coax input faultlessly.

I had Panasonic HE-100 reciever that required me to get out of my chair and push a button on the front of the receiver to hear digital sound. The 3805 was worth it for this alone, it's a smart cookie!