Erin's Audio review squashed by Tekton

[BDWoody]

...what appears to be the public razing of a company that was spearheaded by the self-appointed guru of a community bent on the demise of his means of support?

Doesn't that describe EA's actions? He was talking out of more sides of his mouth than could be kept up with, and not only never provided info he promised over and over, he ended up beclowning himself with some driver plot he tried to pass off as a speaker plot. He was bent on the demise of anyone who criticized him, but things may not have gone to plan when someone actually stood up to him.

Edit: When the entire community stood up to him.

He traded in his shovel for a backhoe, then tried upgrading to a flamethrower. How is that on anyone but himself?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wonder what other famous narcissist who wants to stifle opinion has influenced Eric?

 

[gene]

Hey Gene,
If there were a more obvious example of trolling, I haven't seen one.

Claiming that I am threatened by Amir when the fact is the two of them actually went to the bother of joining the forum just to harass me on a thread that gets no action and literally nobody has seen is textbook psychosis.

This is the same kind of paranoia they accuse Eric of having, not to mention the trick of quoting everything in isolation and out of context to look like they are making a valid point.

When I started this thread it should have been obvious that I considered this whole situation a parody from the first post since suing someone for leaving the feet out of an enclosure has to be a joke. Unfortunately, since the dimwits at ASR did take it seriously they obviously have no sense of humour and this thread is just a waste of time.

Not sure the purpose of this post. I haven't made any claims that you were threatened by anyone, let alone Amir. To my knowledge Amir was the receipt of legal threats from Tekton, not the other way around.

 

[MrBoat]

Wonder what other famous narcissist who wants to stifle opinion has influenced Eric?

Does it begin with a G?

 

[amirm]

I am merely speculating on a possible outcome from damages to Tekton's reputation and if the folks at ASR could be held liable in some hypothetical situation that has gone far beyond any specious argument about product performance or measurement methods and now could mean a real loss for the company as a result of the backlash.

Eric's comments have already gone beyond that. He has impugned both my reputation and Erin's, claiming we don't know what we are doing, that we are measuring wrong, etc. He has promised repeatedly to post measurements to youtube but when the video was finally posted, it had no measurements. Strong and direct threats of legal actions were made about me and Erin but in his videos, he claimed falsely that he had not.

For our side, we have responded to his criticism and posted new measurements showing his claims of different results were false and frivolous.

Members on ASR read the above and pass on judgement about the company and him personally. They have every right to do that as the basis is factual and sound. All of the above happened. In US, we enjoy strong rights protecting speech. It is fundamental to who we are in this country.

Any damages to Eric and his business are his. Both Erin and I have have hard evidence of our communications with him, showing clear intimidation to delete reviews with zero backing of any facts.

Importantly, keep in mind that I kept his threats confidential for weeks. He volunteered to post on ASR that he was threatening litigation against me. That opened the doors to me showing evidence that he was indeed, doing so. Had he been smart enough to stay quiet, then some of this may not have come out.

Net, net, he needs to be careful to not go after reviewers who put their sweat and blood into testing products for his customers, making up for his lack of any objective information about his products. That the legal system is not a tool to quiet independent third-party testing. You abuse that system, you pay whatever the cost is in the eyes of the public.

Backlash is part of the business analysis of any public action you take. I once worked for a company where a guy took our software and just changed the Author and Copyright to himself and started to sell it! We met with the lawyers and we were ready to go after him with a case that could not be stronger (he had literally patched the DLL library). But our marketing/PR people said it would not look good for a big company like us to go after the individual. So we didn't. That individual by the way, grew that company, took it public and made a ton of money on our back! Such is life sometimes.

I suggest not trying to defend the company in these backhanded ways. Eric has said he needs no help....

 

[gene]

A little levity on the topic from Scientific Audiophile:

 

[Mr._Clark]

Hi Merlin,

I am merely speculating on a possible outcome from damages to Tekton's reputation and if the folks at ASR could be held liable in some hypothetical situation that has gone far beyond any specious argument about product performance or measurement methods and now could mean a real loss for the company as a result of the backlash.

Since you are a lawyer, I ask you, what do you suppose would be the result of what appears to be the public razing of a company that was spearheaded by the self-appointed guru of a community bent on the demise of his means of support?

What is your opinion on what the outcome would be? Does the company even have a case?



Thanks

You haven’t posted anything that would survive a 12(b)(6) motion

 

[MerlinGS]

Hi Merlin,
I am merely speculating on a possible outcome from damages to Tekton's reputation and if the folks at ASR could be held liable

You need a cause of action, apparently you are not aware of any despite your many statements suggesting otherwise. As to hypotheticals, they are not a good argument for cause of action. Causes of actions are based on actual events/acts. The legal theory has to be based on actual facts, not imagined fact scenarios.

has gone far beyond any specious argument about product performance or measurement methods

Instead of hand waving, generalities, and innuendos, any conversation needs to be grounded in actual facts. Could you please provide actual examples/citations of Erin/Amir carrying out "specious arguments and measurements". I should note that there are several examples that have been cited of Eric making specious claims about the events thus far and his measurements of his speakers (his claim of not threatening lawsuits against Amir/Erin are clearly refutable, and he has yet to produce objective measurements that support his arguments against Amir/Erin's measurements).

now could mean a real loss for the company as a result of the backlash.

If the events discussed thus far lead to "a real loss" for Tekton, it does not mean one can attribute fault to Amir or Erin's actions. The only backlash thus far seems to be directly related to Eric/Tekton's actions against Amir and Erin. To my recollection, most negative posts against Eric/Tekton, if not all, are directly in response to Eric/Tekton's actions thus far; i.e. the negative posts against Tekton are not the result of the findings of Amir/Erin's speaker measurements/reviews. Thus, any damage Tekton has suffered in the market place are likely better understood as resulting from Eric/Tekton's actions, not Amir/Erin. In the alternative, even if people are reacting negatively to Tekton's products because of the Amir/Erin's findings, that is not a sufficient cause of action.

Since you are a lawyer, I ask you, what do you suppose would be the result of what appears to be the public razing of a company that was spearheaded by the self-appointed guru of a community bent on the demise of his means of support?

I suggest you consider all the times corporations have been attacked by parties from the left and right of the political spectrum. Can people not express their opinions and political beliefs against Chick-fil-a or Bud Light? Can a movie or restaurant reviewer not be critical in their review?

The aforementioned notwithstanding, you are asking me to accept facts that are not in evidence. However, I will discuss some issues that you seem to allude to. You appear to believe Amir and Erin may have some type of legal exposure because their speaker reviews appear to have led to Eric's questionable actions, which in turn exposed his company to popular disdain in many audio forums. Further, you seem to be suggesting "but for their reviews, Tekton would not be experiencing public razin". However, there is no clear connection from their reviews to third party "razin". Their reviews did not lead to Eric's actions, he willfully chose to threaten the Amir and Erin with legal action. i.e. the "but for" argument is far better applied to Eric/Tekton's actions.

Eric's dishonest response, suggesting Tekton was not threatening legal action (when he clearly stated in communications to Amir and Erin, he was considering legal action), seem to suggest he may have recognized his direct actions were damaging the brand he so carefully attempted to grow and nurture over the past few years.

Lastly, regarding forums, forum hosts, and participants, you may want to acquaint yourself with S. 230 and the protections afforded to owners of "interactive computer service".

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hi Merlin,

I am merely speculating on a possible outcome from damages to Tekton's reputation and if the folks at ASR could be held liable in some hypothetical situation that has gone far beyond any specious argument about product performance or measurement methods and now could mean a real loss for the company as a result of the backlash.

Since you are a lawyer, I ask you, what do you suppose would be the result of what appears to be the public razing of a company that was spearheaded by the self-appointed guru of a community bent on the demise of his means of support?

What is your opinion on what the outcome would be? Does the company even have a case?



Thanks

I am not an attorney, but my SIL is. Digression lol.
IMO, Eric has no case, and has been judged in the court of public opinion. Just about the only person I’ve seen say anything to support Eric was dirty sanchez who obviously escaped from the nut house, and only came here to ruffle feathers.
In short, imo Eric has no case. Any demise of his company rests squarely on his own shoulders. The public razzing was only made worse by his repeatedly doubling down, and being completely uncooperative, and basically a total a$$hole.
Meanwhile Amir and Erin both tried to play along and even took their own time to remeasure just to placate the stupid SOB.
The community isn’t simply “ bent on the demise of his means of support”. Most of them(and us) have said clearly. All Eric had to do was take the high road and be an adult, and explain what his disagreement was. Hell, he probably would have gotten a ton of support. Instead, he went straight to litigation talk, and acting like a baby.
I don’t like to wish ill on people. But in this case, I hope that the losses he’s already incurred, and will incur in the future will wake his a$$ up. Nobody wants a guy who acts like that in the audio community anyway. Soooo…
Fukk him. And his wacky a$$ speakers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You need a cause of action, apparently you are not aware of any despite your many statements suggesting otherwise. As to hypotheticals, they are not a good argument for cause of action. Causes of actions are based on actual events/acts. The legal theory has to be based on actual facts, not imagined fact scenarios.


Instead of hand waving, generalities, and innuendos, any conversation needs to be grounded in actual facts. Could you please provide actual examples/citations of Erin/Amir carrying out "specious arguments and measurements". I should note that there are several examples that have been cited of Eric making specious claims about the events thus far and his measurements of his speakers (his claim of not threatening lawsuits against Amir/Erin are clearly refutable, and he has yet to produce objective measurements that support his arguments against Amir/Erin's measurements).



If the events discussed thus far lead to "a real loss" for Tekton, it does not mean one can attribute fault to Amir or Erin's actions. The only backlash thus far seems to be directly related to Eric/Tekton's actions against Amir and Erin. To my recollection, most negative posts against Eric/Tekton, if not all, are directly in response to Eric/Tekton's actions thus far; i.e. the negative posts against Tekton are not the result of the findings of Amir/Erin's speaker measurements/reviews. Thus, any damage Tekton has suffered in the market place are likely better understood as resulting from Eric/Tekton's actions, not Amir/Erin. In the alternative, even if people are reacting negatively to Tekton's products because of the Amir/Erin's findings, that is not a sufficient cause of action.



I suggest you consider all the times corporations have been attacked by parties from the left and right of the political spectrum. Can people not express their opinions and political beliefs against Chick-fil-a or Bud Light? Can a movie or restaurant reviewer not be critical in their review?

The aforementioned notwithstanding, you are asking me to accept facts that are not in evidence. However, I will discuss some issues that you seem to allude to. You appear to believe Amir and Erin may have some type of legal exposure because their speaker reviews appear to have led to Eric's questionable actions, which in turn exposed his company to popular disdain in many audio forums. Further, you seem to be suggesting "but for their reviews, Tekton would not be experiencing public razin". However, there is no clear connection from their reviews to third party "razin". Their reviews did not lead to Eric's actions, he willfully chose to threaten the Amir and Erin with legal action. i.e. the "but for" argument is far better applied to Eric/Tekton's actions.

Eric's dishonest response, suggesting Tekton was not threatening legal action (when he clearly stated in communications to Amir and Erin, he was considering legal action), seem to suggest he may have recognized his direct actions were damaging the brand he so carefully attempted to grow and nurture over the past few years.

Lastly, regarding forums, forum hosts, and participants, you may want to acquaint yourself with S. 230 and the protections afforded to owners of "interactive computer service".

Many good points here. I feel that Eric’s actions have caused far more loss and negative exposure than anything Erin or Amir had said. In fact, as Erin mentioned, people in his comments section were actually interested in the speaker. I would be much less critical of him if he’d use some humility. But he keeps coming back for more!!! I lost a friend last year as a result of cyber bullying, so I’m sensitive to the actions that can come from a situation like this. One big difference is that Eric has brought all this on himself, and could have(maybe still can) changed the entire trajectory of it. Maybe even grown his company exponentially if he played his cards right. But no. He just keeps showing what a douche he is. Pretty sad.

 

[ReverendSlim]

Now, thanks to Amir, it looks like Tekton may actually have a case against Amir/ASR for what has developed on his site and instigated across the general audio community regarding Tekton's reputation.

Ironically, Eric has put the following on his product page for the speaker Amir reviewed:
"Note: the Mini Lore was recently pulled from my lineup due to a slanderous and deeply flawed review by Amir at Audio Science Review the “place where we pretend to know a lot more about audio that we really do.”"

I point this out because while none of what you've said is legally actionable, accusing someone of a crime (slander) in writing without any legal basis is a little thing lawyers and courts call "libel". So for those playing along at home, thus far, Amir has more of an actual cause of action than Eric.

 

[Nondemo01]

A little levity on the topic from Scientific Audiophile:

Man! I go on a work trip and come back to DAYS of forum posts with so much juicy drama! (That's funny, thanks for sharing Gene!)
Couple initial thoughts:
1. As I understand it, the initial speakers reviewed were sent to Erin's Audio Corner by their owner and NOT the manufacturer correct?
2. The manufacturer wasn't happy with aspects of the objective data described using subjective opinion.
3. The manufacturer then threatens litigation in private correspondence, claims they aren't threatening litigation in public forums, continues threatening litigation in private correspondence.
4. The manufacturer gets ABSOLUTELY FLAMED in pretty much every forum page and YouTube channel that deals with audio.
5. Erin gets IBS. (LOVE YOU ERIN! But knowing that makes me regret sending you such a small amount for lunch money where you could only get White Castle. I'll send more next time! BTW, as someone who suffers with Diverticulosis, I feel for you as you go through this ridiculous BS.)

I'd say, *IF* you bought gear cause you like the way they sound, DO NOT send them in to get reviewed for objective data to validate your purchase, sometimes ignorance is bliss. But I do applaud those that do as it gives the rest of us information to aid our purchase. I purchased some stuff from GoldenEar cause A. I had some of their stuff already and B. the WAF won't allow ANYTHING resembling a "theater" in the living room. Squeezing in SuperSats and some SuperSubs was all I could sneak in. I would NEVER send them in for anyone to "prove" they're anything other than a compromise that I already made. (Before you flame me, I got $15K in custom Noble & Cooley drums and another $15K in microphones and interfaces. WAF has to listen to paradiddles at over "125 DB" for a "non home theater, theater". #winner.)

 

[Mr._Clark]

You need a cause of action, apparently you are not aware of any despite your many statements suggesting otherwise. As to hypotheticals, they are not a good argument for cause of action. Causes of actions are based on actual events/acts. The legal theory has to be based on actual facts, not imagined fact scenarios.


Instead of hand waving, generalities, and innuendos, any conversation needs to be grounded in actual facts. Could you please provide actual examples/citations of Erin/Amir carrying out "specious arguments and measurements". I should note that there are several examples that have been cited of Eric making specious claims about the events thus far and his measurements of his speakers (his claim of not threatening lawsuits against Amir/Erin are clearly refutable, and he has yet to produce objective measurements that support his arguments against Amir/Erin's measurements).



If the events discussed thus far lead to "a real loss" for Tekton, it does not mean one can attribute fault to Amir or Erin's actions. The only backlash thus far seems to be directly related to Eric/Tekton's actions against Amir and Erin. To my recollection, most negative posts against Eric/Tekton, if not all, are directly in response to Eric/Tekton's actions thus far; i.e. the negative posts against Tekton are not the result of the findings of Amir/Erin's speaker measurements/reviews. Thus, any damage Tekton has suffered in the market place are likely better understood as resulting from Eric/Tekton's actions, not Amir/Erin. In the alternative, even if people are reacting negatively to Tekton's products because of the Amir/Erin's findings, that is not a sufficient cause of action.



I suggest you consider all the times corporations have been attacked by parties from the left and right of the political spectrum. Can people not express their opinions and political beliefs against Chick-fil-a or Bud Light? Can a movie or restaurant reviewer not be critical in their review?

The aforementioned notwithstanding, you are asking me to accept facts that are not in evidence. However, I will discuss some issues that you seem to allude to. You appear to believe Amir and Erin may have some type of legal exposure because their speaker reviews appear to have led to Eric's questionable actions, which in turn exposed his company to popular disdain in many audio forums. Further, you seem to be suggesting "but for their reviews, Tekton would not be experiencing public razin". However, there is no clear connection from their reviews to third party "razin". Their reviews did not lead to Eric's actions, he willfully chose to threaten the Amir and Erin with legal action. i.e. the "but for" argument is far better applied to Eric/Tekton's actions.

Eric's dishonest response, suggesting Tekton was not threatening legal action (when he clearly stated in communications to Amir and Erin, he was considering legal action), seem to suggest he may have recognized his direct actions were damaging the brand he so carefully attempted to grow and nurture over the past few years.

Lastly, regarding forums, forum hosts, and participants, you may want to acquaint yourself with S. 230 and the protections afforded to owners of "interactive computer service".

I agree with what you’ve said. You have more patience than me.

I realize I’m preaching to the choir, but there seems to be a false belief among some people that there’s a legal remedy for any activity that causes damage. Causation and damages are necessary, but there’s a lot more to it (even assuming causation can be shown, which is doubtful as you’ve noted).

 

[highfigh]

Hi Merlin,

I am merely speculating on a possible outcome from damages to Tekton's reputation and if the folks at ASR could be held liable in some hypothetical situation that has gone far beyond any specious argument about product performance or measurement methods and now could mean a real loss for the company as a result of the backlash.

I thought you were a member here before this week, or was that Remote Central where I have seen your posts?

 

[highfigh]

I watched the video after the second test and he said installing the feet made very little difference. Not sure why this became an issue- did Tekton listen/measure with and without? If I was making speakers for sale to the market, I sure would have done that- what's the point of creating my own problems and giving people a reason to dump on my product?

"I would have tightened the lug nuts, but this car rolls better on the brake rotors, anyway".

 

[gaby95]

Ironically, Eric has put the following on his product page for the speaker Amir reviewed:
"Note: the Mini Lore was recently pulled from my lineup due to a slanderous and deeply flawed review by Amir at Audio Science Review the “place where we pretend to know a lot more about audio that we really do.”"

I point this out because while none of what you've said is legally actionable, accusing someone of a crime (slander) in writing without any legal basis is a little thing lawyers and courts call "libel". So for those playing along at home, thus far, Amir has more of an actual cause of action than Eric.

Did he remove it already?

 

[buckchester]

I watched the video after the second test and he said installing the feet made very little difference. Not sure why this became an issue- did Tekton listen/measure with and without? If I was making speakers for sale to the market, I sure would have done that- what's the point of creating my own problems and giving people a reason to dump on my product?

"I would have tightened the lug nuts, but this car rolls better on the brake rotors, anyway".

It seems as though Eric has little understanding of the measurements and what will and won't affect the sound of his speakers (listening axes, feet installed not installed, etc.)

 

[davidscott]

And the measurements didn't change with the feet screwed in? Oh my.

 

[lovinthehd]

Does it begin with a G?

No. Think of your state fruit.

And the measurements didn't change with the feet screwed in? Oh my.

They changed a little bit. Not likely audible. Erin also needed to turn the speaker upside down to defeat a resonance somewhat.

 

[ReverendSlim]

Did he remove it already?

No, it is still up here: https://tektondesign.com/product/specials/mini-lore-pair/