Equalizer or no Equalizer.

[crazyfingers]

Hi new here. Old analog audiophile updating by stuff now that I'm retired.

I'm updating my 1978-1992 vintage hifi. I just got a NAD C 658 preamp / streamer. I took the EQ out when I replaced the old ADCOM GTP 500 preamp. The output goes to a Carver Cube M400 amp to my Allison Three speakers. The sound of the three is great and an improvement over the ADCOM connected to my digital library formerly by a Bose Soundtouch wireless link. The NAD also grabs the files off the computer via wifi.

There seem to be very few good EQs on the market.

My old one is an AudioControl Octave.

I don't know how good or bad it is really. It will bypass but only if turned on which makes it not a complete test.

I do listen to a lot of live Grateful Dead concerts and some can use EQ due to old live recording quality and the ravages of time on 50 year old master reel to reel tapes from which the CDs and downloads were created.

The NAD has bass and trebble but not bands

Thoughts?

 

[lovinthehd]

Graphic EQ units aren't what I'd think of. I'd think of parametric EQ via something like a miniDSP unit, perhaps even just using software based in something like Roon or JRiver, etc.

 

[crazyfingers]

Having been out of the stereo component market for around 30 years I had never heard of a parametric EQ before. I've started to google what they are. Thanks for the idea.

I do know that the NAD wifi streaming preamp talks to my music library via its own software so I don't think that I have a software option. It would need to be a unit between the analog outs of the preamp and the analog ins on the amp.

 

[highfigh]

Hi new here. Old analog audiophile updating by stuff now that I'm retired.

I'm updating my 1978-1992 vintage hifi. I just got a NAD C 658 preamp / streamer. I took the EQ out when I replaced the old ADCOM GTP 500 preamp. The output goes to a Carver Cube M400 amp to my Allison Three speakers. The sound of the three is great and an improvement over the ADCOM connected to my digital library formerly by a Bose Soundtouch wireless link. The NAD also grabs the files off the computer via wifi.

There seem to be very few good EQs on the market.

My old one is an AudioControl Octave.

I don't know how good or bad it is really. It will bypass but only if turned on which makes it not a complete test.

I do listen to a lot of live Grateful Dead concerts and some can use EQ due to old live recording quality and the ravages of time on 50 year old master reel to reel tapes from which the CDs and downloads were created.

The NAD has bass and trebble but not bands

Thoughts?

It's not hard to find good equalizers, just not in the consumer world. However, DSPs replaced analog equalizers awhile ago and they work much better, if someone wants to learn to use them properly.

Good luck making those Dead tapes sound good, especially if they were bootlegged using cheap equipment.

 

[crazyfingers]

It's not hard to find good equalizers, just not in the consumer world. However, DSPs replaced analog equalizers awhile ago and they work much better, if someone wants to learn to use them properly.

Good luck making those Dead tapes sound good, especially if they were bootlegged using cheap equipment.

Thanks

The new NAD has analog pre-outs and I'm not ready to get rid of my amp so at the moment if I do anything about a new EQ it would need to be analog I think.

I collected about 1000 bootleg Dead tapes before the Dead started selling concert CD's (and later downloads, mp3, AAC, ALAC, FlAC, etc..even higher) of shows going way back. They are far better than boots but it's clear that some still suffer from issues when they were recorded live at the time. Mainly from the 1970's. A particular box set from 1976 is weak in the trebble and very heavy on the bass. (The Grateful Dead appear to have recorded nearly all of their thousands of concerts from 1968 to 1995)

I don't know if the bass and trebble on the NAD is enough. I could be really all I need. Just thinking possibilities.

And who knows. The AudioControl Octave I have may still be just fine. But since it needs to be on even to pass the signal through even with the EQ controls bypassed, testing is not a matter of switching it on and off.

 

[lovinthehd]

Even with analog outs you can still use digital eq, a company called miniDSP(.com) makes a variety of such. Also a possibility you can use to add subs (e.g. their 2x4HD model).

If your streamer can stream files from your computer you could use something like Roon or Jriver or other software to provide eq fairly easily as well I'd think.

Trying to think the last time I used a graphic eq (an Audio Control unit too)....been 30 years or so. It started misbehaving I remember, don't remember what I did with it, think I gave it to a friend who wanted to try and fix it....

 

[Mark E. Long]

Probably have to get a mini dsp or look into pro eq’s Art , DBX , ect but for proper use you’ll need a mic and a real time analyzer on a iPad or laptop I prefer the iPad version myself and a lot of time to play with it . Takes time and can be very successful if you got the tools .

 

[crazyfingers]

I was looking at the DBX. I'll look at Art. And probably experiment with the AudioControl but given it takes a few minutes to change the plugs I don't know if I can tell if it introduces anything in bypass.

 

[Mark E. Long]

I was looking at the DBX. I'll look at Art. And probably experiment with the AudioControl but given it takes a few minutes to change the plugs I don't know if I can tell if it introduces anything in bypass.

I use 3 Art 31 band mainly for music and can switch them in or out for movies I go with the AVR’s settings and mostly bypass them . But for music I like what they can do with quality material like sacd or Blu-ray audio .for your ease of use I’d look at the Art products but like I say there not for everyone.

 

[crazyfingers]

I use 3 Art 31 band mainly for music and can switch them in or out for movies I go with the AVR’s settings and mostly bypass them . But for music I like what they can do with quality material like sacd or Blu-ray audio .for your ease of use I’d look at the Art products but like I say there not for everyone.

I mentioned I think that my stereo setup was complete around 1992. It just shows how I have ignored advances in home hifi.
I don't have a clue how to use that.

310 – 2way/3way Crossover – ART Pro Audio

artproaudio.com

Since I'm just researching final improvements to my system I will research that and it's type to understand how they are different/better (or not) than a graphic equalizer.

Thanks!

 

[Mark E. Long]

I mentioned I think that my stereo setup was complete around 1992. It just shows how I have ignored advances in home hifi.
I don't have a clue how to use that.

310 – 2way/3way Crossover – ART Pro Audio

artproaudio.com

Since I'm just researching final improvements to my system I will research that and it's type to understand how they are different/better (or not) than a graphic equalizer.

Thanks!

Yes do lots of research on any upgrades things have changed a lot since 92 for easy use I use the Art 355’s 31 band constant Q’s for my mains and side surrounds and a single Art 231 31 band for my center channel these all have rca input and output connections for easier intergration into my setup . And they also have xlr connections if so inclined .

 

[highfigh]

Thanks

The new NAD has analog pre-outs and I'm not ready to get rid of my amp so at the moment if I do anything about a new EQ it would need to be analog I think.

I collected about 1000 bootleg Dead tapes before the Dead started selling concert CD's (and later downloads, mp3, AAC, ALAC, FlAC, etc..even higher) of shows going way back. They are far better than boots but it's clear that some still suffer from issues when they were recorded live at the time. Mainly from the 1970's. A particular box set from 1976 is weak in the trebble and very heavy on the bass. (The Grateful Dead appear to have recorded nearly all of their thousands of concerts from 1968 to 1995)

I don't know if the bass and trebble on the NAD is enough. I could be really all I need. Just thinking possibilities.

And who knows. The AudioControl Octave I have may still be just fine. But since it needs to be on even to pass the signal through even with the EQ controls bypassed, testing is not a matter of switching it on and off.

They may have recorded most of their shows, but I doubt they did this so they could sell copies- they were famous for telling people to go ahead and record but I don't think many of the tapes that came from their shows can be accused of sounding good.

Weak in the high frequencies doesn't mean it can be returned by using an equalizer- you'll end up adding hiss, too but heavy bass can be tamed if you don't mind making some instruments sound anemic when Phil Lesh took a break.

 

[Eppie]

I mentioned I think that my stereo setup was complete around 1992. It just shows how I have ignored advances in home hifi.
I don't have a clue how to use that.

310 – 2way/3way Crossover – ART Pro Audio

artproaudio.com

Since I'm just researching final improvements to my system I will research that and it's type to understand how they are different/better (or not) than a graphic equalizer.

Thanks!

The 310 is like having bass and treble controls but with adjustable frequency ranges. Think of the Low Output Level as the bass control and High Output Level as the treble control. The Frequency control adjust where the low and high levels overlap (like in the symbol to the right of the power switch).

That is how parametric EQs operate. A standard graphic EQ has fixed bands, so each slider affects a certain frequency range, but centered on a specific frequency. A parametric EQ has 3 controls per band. One control adjusts the center frequency higher or lower (say from 1KHz to 5KHz for the mid-band). The second control adjusts the bandwidth (the control could operate +/- 100Hz from the center frequency or +/- 500Hz; these are rough numbers as the controls can be logarithmic). The third control adjusts the gain (which can be positive or negative).

This can be done through hardware or software. As each set of controls on a parametric EQ offer much more flexibility than a graphic EQ, there are less bands per channel (plus having 3 controls per band takes up much more space). Programs like Roon and devices like the mini-DSP do this in software. The music is converted to digital (or starts as digital) and the EQ processing is done in the digital domain and then converted to analogue.

Which is easier may be a personal matter. With the graphic EQ or 310 you have to walk up and adjust the bands when needed. With software solutions you may be able to save presets and switch between them using a laptop or cell phone. The pro gear uses XLR or 1/4" TRS jacks but you can use a 1/4" TRS to RCA adapter cable for unbalanced connections.

 

[JLGF1]

Audio Control Octaves still work great. I bought them up when they were going for a song. Those guys knew what they were doing and still in business today. I use both GEQ & PEQ, the latter software based.

 

[crazyfingers]

I've been revisiting this question. Can anyone tell me if the ART units, particularly the 300 series, will bypass with the power off? I've been reading the manual. It says:

BYPASS SWITCH & CLIP INDICATOR LED
When the red BYPASS LED is illuminated, this indicates that the unit or channel is in the bypass
mode. Signal is routed directly from the input to the output without passing through any circuitry (often referred to as ”hard-wire bypass”). Use this switch to compare equalized and unequalized material, or to bypass the EQ section in the event of total unit failure.

That isn't clear. It says that the Red LED will light during bypass which suggests that the power is on. But it says it's a "Hard Wire Bypass" that doesn't pass though any circuitry and works in the event of a total unit failure which suggests the power can be off power off and still Bypass.

I'd only want EQ sometimes. And when not using the EQ I would like to be able to have it off.

 

[Eppie]

I've been revisiting this question. Can anyone tell me if the ART units, particularly the 300 series, will bypass with the power off? I've been reading the manual. It says:

BYPASS SWITCH & CLIP INDICATOR LED
When the red BYPASS LED is illuminated, this indicates that the unit or channel is in the bypass
mode. Signal is routed directly from the input to the output without passing through any circuitry (often referred to as ”hard-wire bypass”). Use this switch to compare equalized and unequalized material, or to bypass the EQ section in the event of total unit failure.

That isn't clear. It says that the Red LED will light during bypass which suggests that the power is on. But it says it's a "Hard Wire Bypass" that doesn't pass though any circuitry and works in the event of a total unit failure which suggests the power can be off power off and still Bypass.

I'd only want EQ sometimes. And when not using the EQ I would like to be able to have it off.

Logically you would think that a hard wired bypass switch would work with the power off, particularly if they state that it works in the event of a total unit failure, but to answer that question you would need to contact the manufacturer or hope that someone who owns one can answer that question. If it's pro-audio gear, that may take research in a pro-audio forum.

 

[3db]

I use an equalizer on my stereo only set up. I only boost the bass of the 30Hz and 60 Hz regions and leave the rest flat just to give the speakers a little more bottom end. Works well in my set up. One will get better results with Parametric equalizers or DSP equalizers.

 

[crazyfingers]

Most of the time I probably wouldn't need the equalizer but as I think you know half of my library is live Grateful Dead concerts from 1969 to 1993. These are mainly the CD's and downloads sold by the Grateful Dead Org, (Dicks Picks/Daves Picks, lots of box sets). Many are actually bass heavy, 1974 to 1977 especially, and I'd want to turn bass down a bit. My preamp has tone controls but they are not very precise. Besides, I'd like the look of an EQ.

I'd plug in my old Audio Control Octave but I'd have to have it on all the time even if not equalizing.

 

[Mark E. Long]

Most of the time I probably wouldn't need the equalizer but as I think you know half of my library is live Grateful Dead concerts from 1969 to 1993. These are mainly the CD's and downloads sold by the Grateful Dead Org, (Dicks Picks/Daves Picks, lots of box sets). Many are actually bass heavy, 1974 to 1977 especially, and I'd want to turn bass down a bit. My preamp has tone controls but they are not very precise. Besides, I'd like the look of
I'd plug in my old Audio Control Octave but I'd have to have it on all the time even if not equalizing.

I've been revisiting this question. Can anyone tell me if the ART units, particularly the 300 series, will bypass with the power off? I've been reading the manual. It says:

BYPASS SWITCH & CLIP INDICATOR LED
When the red BYPASS LED is illuminated, this indicates that the unit or channel is in the bypass
mode. Signal is routed directly from the input to the output without passing through any circuitry (often referred to as ”hard-wire bypass”). Use this switch to compare equalized and unequalized material, or to bypass the EQ section in the event of total unit failure.

That isn't clear. It says that the Red LED will light during bypass which suggests that the power is on. But it says it's a "Hard Wire Bypass" that doesn't pass though any circuitry and works in the event of a total unit failure which suggests the power can be off power off and still Bypass.

I'd only want EQ sometimes. And when not using the EQ I would like to be able to have it off.

I use 2 eq 355’s one for my front mains and one for the side surrounds and one eq 331 for my center channel so I am familiar with there eq’s yes if bypass is engaged and the units are powered down the signal will pass through unaltered to the amps in my case or yours too they are great units and dead quiet in use or bypassed and are of a constant Q design.

 

[crazyfingers]

I use 2 eq 355’s one for my front mains and one for the side surrounds and one eq 331 for my center channel so I am familiar with there eq’s yes if bypass is engaged and the units are powered down the signal will pass through unaltered to the amps in my case or yours too they are great units and dead quiet in use or bypassed and are of a constant Q design.

Cool! Thanks!