Emotiva vs. Rotel vs. Anthem

[LemonTech]

That's not the first time I've heard of someone steering clear of Emo because of that...

 

[jcl]

I searched and looked at product pictures of the back of several different amps from Parasound, ATI, Anthem, Krell, McIntosh and Outlaw. I didn't see UL markings on any of them (Although the Anthem & McIntosh pictures weren't very close up.)

I then went to the UL site and searched on the companies. Only ATI & Anthem were found, but the products listed weren't any of the current amplifier lines.

So if UL listing is the litmus test for purchasing an amplifier where do you turn? Or is there a better way to determine what has a UL Listing?

 

[jinjuku]

I searched and looked at product pictures of the back of several different amps from Parasound, ATI, Anthem, Krell, McIntosh and Outlaw. I didn't see UL markings on any of them (Although the Anthem & McIntosh pictures weren't very close up.)

I then went to the UL site and searched on the companies. Only ATI & Anthem were found, but the products listed weren't any of the current amplifier lines.

So if UL listing is the litmus test for purchasing an amplifier where do you turn? Or is there a better way to determine what has a UL Listing?

I didn't think UL listing was the only certification a company could submit product for. What about CE and CSA?

I know my Crown's have those listed.

 

[ACsGreens]

Huh...

You know I hear and read on here all the time that power supplies and amplifiers are sufficient and that there is not a noticeable difference between many. I am certainly not saying that nyone is wrong b/c who the hell am I, that being said I have heard a lot of amplifiers/receivers and I can say that to me there is a big difference. We can put all the graphs and charts, distortion rating and many other numbers but the fact of the matter is that when i compare something like an Anthem amp/rec to a Yammy and Denon or others there can be a big difference. Though a Yammy 1010 (which I love) has somewhat equal power to an Anthem 300, the sound is not comperable, to me. I just don't buy all the charts and scientific readings. Better power is better power imo, and more better power can really open up speakers. I will take all crap flung at me but i stand by this.

 

[PENG]

I just don't buy all the charts and scientific readings. Better power is better power imo, and more better power can really open up speakers. I will take all crap flung at me but i stand by this.

You can buy or not buy anything, say anything without proof, and even not believe in science if you choose to, etc without getting any crap flung at you. That being said, I hope one day you will wake up and realize what you think you are hearing may not be true. That day could come sooner if you have the opportunity to participate in a properly conducted comparison test, one that you can only use your ears and not eyes. I happen to have Anthem, Denon and Yamaha AVR/amps and I know what I hear, but again as they say, YMMV especially when eyes are involved.

 

[ACsGreens]

Peng

Peng, so what are your thoughts comapring the three of them? What are any differences, if any? I am always willing to learn, or hear opinions. I am also always to try any new beers, which sound damn good right now.

 

[PENG]

Peng, so what are your thoughts comapring the three of them? What are any differences, if any? I am always willing to learn, or hear opinions. I am also always to try any new beers, which sound damn good right now.

AVR: All my Denons (4), Yamaha (1), Marantz (AV7005+amps) sound the same to me without sound processing. I have not tried to push the smallest ones (RX-V659 & AVR-1912, 1705) to the point where they might sound strained but I am sure if I did, they would collapse sooner than the more powerful ones. My room is just too small for me to go any higher than -15. I did have the 1912 up to -5 for a minute or so listening to just Jazz stuff and it was still fine without sounding harsh.

I don't have an Anthem AVR, just the MCA20 power amp for my HT system's front L/R channels. For some reason I thought it would do better than the Marantz 8003 for Stereo and the occasional concert BR but I really haven't heard any obvious difference so far. May be it does sound a touch warmer but I know in an unsighted comparison I would fail to tell them apart. The 8003 is powering just the 4 surround speakers with the other 4 channels idling. It really was a stupid move and a waste of money but I did get a good discount for it.

Don't get me wrong, amps are good to have for many reasons, just don't always expect the big SQ improvements people (sorry that include you) tell you to expect, as you may not realize the same, or it could be that Placebo effect works differently on different people. This is just my opinion base on my own experience, absolutely no pun intended.

 

[canelli]

Years ago I did CE certification for mechanical and electrical components used in military/nonmilitary applications. When I ran across a component that lacked any type of certification, it was almost always due to a design that would require changes to meet specification. I never had a component not certified to any type of standard because of cost.

 

[jcl]

Crown has a helpful page on these marks - UL, CSA, ETL and CE: Whats the Difference?

The CE mark is for the European union, and is apparently required for a product to be sold there. I did see this mark on the backs of many of the amp photos.

I also have seen the CSA mark, for Canadian Standards Assoc.

I checked some Mark Levinson amps, and NAD too. Still no UL marks on the pictures of the backs.

So Canelli you said Emotiva was too cheap for a UL Listing. But Krell, McIntosh, Mark Levinson? It doesn't seem like Emotiva should be singled out.

I checked, my Onkyo and H/K receivers both have UL listings. That's right, Onkyo, religated to junk status, and infamous for going up in smoke.

 

[canelli]

Jcl,
In a way you are correct about singling out emotive. For their prices, it’s hard to believe they have the margins to do keep proper quality controls. Fair, probably not. I don’t even like leaving things like cheap power adapter’s and such plugged in when I am not at home. (so am I somewhat paranoid - yes)

Now, I just need to find someone to help me get over my fears. A couple XPA-1s, -3s, and a -5 might just do the trick

 

[darien87]

I didn't think UL listing was the only certification a company could submit product for. What about CE and CSA?

I know my Crown's have those listed.

You're right, there are TONS of certification companies out there. I'm sure it would cost a pretty penny and be a logistical nightmare to be listed with all of them. I know that my XPA-5 does indeed have a CE symbol on the back.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also want to say I have never heard a difference in amp sound.

I recall back in the early days when I was a fresh young audiophile. I read about how amps and cables differ in SQ. I believed it too. But then I compared them for myself (volume match closely). And I said "WTF are they talking about! I can't hear any difference with any amps, AVR, pre-pro in direct mode!"

The only difference I heard was the volume. Some had higher gain and that made the volume louder. But when I level matched and the volume was equal, there was no difference in SQ.

I thought I was the only one who could not hear the difference. Then I read The Audio Critic and they had Electrical Engineers and PhDs and other established audiophiles who thought the same and double-blinded studies to prove that we just can't statistically hear the difference.

Now, okay, some amps are more "bad a$$" and built like tanks than others. ATI make amps that don't even have speaker hiss noise when you place your ears on the tweeter. Emotiva, Crown, Acurus, and all amps I've heard had hiss noise (noise floor). But from 6" - 12" away, as long as can't hear the hissing, so what?

But, most likely you won't need any amps.

Another thing is the gain level. Some preamp & amp (AVR) may have the gain level too low and it may prevent the amp from full capacity power.

So try this experiment. Increase the speaker channel levels in your AVR like from 0.0 to + 3.0 (Max is usually +12.0) and see if you can hear the difference.

A lot of people use room correction EQ like Audyssey, ARC, EzQ, etc, which may decrease the channel levels to like -3.0.

DenPureSound's Denon 4311 set his speakers level to like -5.0. So he complained he could not get the volume high enough. So I told him to manually increase the channel levels. He is 100% happy now.

 

[fuzz092888]

I also want to say I have never heard a difference in amp sound.

What a crock, everyone knows that amps sound completely different You old fraud you

 

[jcunwired]

I don't have an Anthem AVR, just the MCA20 power amp for my HT system's front L/R channels. For some reason I thought it would do better than the Marantz 8003 for Stereo and the occasional concert BR but I really haven't heard any obvious difference so far.

While I don't have the ability to conduct an instantaneous A/B comparison, I agree. I have an Onkyo TX-8050 2-channel receiver and an Anthem MCA20. While the Onkyo supports 4 ohm speakers I was a bit concerned with overtaxing it, since the speakers (Polk LSi9) are in my living room and while working in the yard I turn it up rather high. I have heard no difference in sound quality with and without the Anthem in place. My mind may be playing tricks on me thinking there are more dynamics at high volume, but I don't really believe it.

 

[fuzz092888]

The only thing I'd worry about with the Onkyo and 4 ohm speakers is the heat. Then again, if, once you come in from the yard and the onkyo isn't excessively hot then I doubt if it's a big deal.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What a crock, everyone knows that amps sound completely different You old fraud you

Well, duh.......hello? Of course the Phil3 sound better with the ATI amps than with cheapo Emo or....... Crown or .......you know.....

 

[Gordonj]

Well, duh.......hello? Of course the Phil3 sound better with the ATI amps than with cheapo Emo or....... Crown or .......you know.....

Wahooowaa... what a minute! You just contradicted yourself
So, let me get this straight, amps do have a sound quaility impact on speakers?

I could not resist

Please forgive me.

Gordon

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wahooowaa... what a minute! You just contradicted yourself
So, let me get this straight, amps do have a sound quaility impact on speakers?

I could not resist

Please forgive me.

Gordon

Not just any amps, mind you!

Only my amps!

Everyone else's amps all sound the same.

 

[cpp]

I do know for a facto that my old tube amps sound different than my SS amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do know for a facto that my old tube amps sound different than my SS amps.

That's why the tubes get the big bucks.

Those people didn't spend all that money to sound accurate and "all the same"!

They want something that sounds different and inaccurate. It makes them feel special.