Elon

[highfigh]

I'm not saying criminals aren't a problem. I'm saying they aren't as big a problem as many people think. You can't point to specific issues, but that does not negate the statistics.

Are you under the impression that bad people only come from South of the US? Guess again- people from many countries come across the Southern border.

I guess it's safer to deny this, up there- Canada doesn't have millions of people who have entered, or are trying to enter. NS may not have these problems, but Montreal and Toronto are seeing a lot of them. If you haven't been watching, it might be a good time to start.

 

[everettT]

I'm not saying criminals aren't a problem. I'm saying they aren't as big a problem as many people think. You can't point to specific issues, but that does not negate the statistics.

Criminal gangs taking over apartment buildings, the trafficking of women, and any murder that has been committed is one too many. When the majority of illegal crossings are military aged men, something isn't right.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Are you under the impression that bad people only come from South of the US? Guess again- people from many countries come across the Southern border.

No, I'm not and yes, I'm aware that people are crossing the border from all over the world.

I guess it's safer to deny this, up there- Canada doesn't have millions of people who have entered, or are trying to enter. NS may not have these problems, but Montreal and Toronto are seeing a lot of them. If you haven't been watching, it might be a good time to start.

What is it that you think I'm denying?

Criminal gangs taking over apartment buildings, the trafficking of women, and any murder that has been committed is one too many. When the majority of illegal crossings are military aged men, something isn't right.

Is this the apartment building takeover you're referring to?
Fact-Check: Did Venezuelan Gangs Take Over an Apartment Building in Aurora, CO? - Fact and Myth

 

[GO-NAD!]

Isn't a NYC a 'Sanctuary City' and you have/had Abrams talking about monumental cost it takes to house/feed/clothe?

This is in response to what statement in my post?

I've never argued the myth of criminality.

As far as I can tell, nobody suggested you did.

There's a protocol for gaining blessed status and it's limited in the # of people that are going to get it. Now should we look at those #'s? Sure.

So, I'm guessing we are in accord on this...?

 

[Trell]

Whoa whoa whoa. Who said he's my 'hero'?

I missattributed so for that you have my correction on the matter.

It's not gaslighting in any form or fashion. You and yours when something obvious gets pointed out move the goal posts.

Musk has been a citizen since 2002. He was going to Stanford and then started his own business. The TLDR is that he initially came over legally, wasn't a net drain, and was given 45 days to correct his status which he did.

The fact of the matter is:

1: Kicked off the EV revolution
2: Kicked off the EV infrastructure market
3: Kicked off large scale battery production/development
4: Completely revolutionized the LEO launch market globally
5: Completely revolutionized Satellite internet

View attachment 71154

Remember that blue bar represents ~11 million people out of a population of ~330 million.

From the same Paper:

Conclusion
Illegal immigrants are a significant net fiscal drain -- paying less in taxes than they use in public
services. The primary reason they create more in costs than they pay in taxes is their relative low
levels of education. Based on prior research, 69 percent of adult illegal immigrants have no
education beyond high school, compared to 35 percent of the U.S.-born. As a result, they tend to
earn modest wages and make modest tax contributions even when income and payroll taxes are
taken out of their pay. This fact, coupled with the relatively heavy demands they make on public
coffers -- especially for education, health care, and means-tested programs -- is the reason they
are a net fiscal drain.
We estimate that 59 percent of illegal immigrant households use one or more major welfare
programs, costing roughly $42 billion a year. At the local level, the largest single cost is for
public education. We estimate the cost of educating the children of illegal immigrants, most of
whom are U.S.-born, totals $69 billion per year. While illegal immigrants often receive other
services for their U.S.-born children, even when we estimate the net fiscal impact of just the
illegal immigrants themselves, excluding their U.S.-born children, we still find they create a
lifetime net fiscal drain of $68,000 on average (taxes paid minus benefits received).
Even though illegal immigrants are net fiscal drains, they do pay a significant amount in taxes.
We estimate illegal immigrants pay $25.9 billion a year to the federal government.
Unfortunately, their tax contributions do not cover their consumption of public services.

Source

Regarding your source link with the header:

>>>The Cost of Illegal Immigration to Taxpayers
Prepared Testimony of Steven A. Camarota
Director of Research
Center for Immigration Studies<<<

So, checking it up I found this interesting article from 2017. There are others as well.

Perhaps find a more credible link? That doesn't mean that the report's conclusion has no merit, though, but since you brought this particular topic up....

>>>Since 1985, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) has served as the anti-immigrant movement’s go-to think tank. The organizaton publishes dozens of reports and hundreds of blog pieces each year that are cited by elected officials and the media. But its reports have been widely criticized and debunked by groups such as the Immigration Policy Center, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, and the CATO Institute.

Speaking about CIS head Mark Krikorian on NPR, Alex Nowasteh, an Immigration Policy Analyst at CATO said in early 2017, "Oh, I'm convinced that he’s wrong about all the facts and issues. They're wrong about the impact of immigrants on the U.S. economy and on U.S. society.” In August, Illinois Rep. Luis Gutierrez said, "[CIS’] research is always questionable because they torture the data to make it arrive at the conclusion they desire, which is that immigrants are criminals and a burden on the U.S. and our economy. It is the worst kind of deception, but politicians, the conservative media and some Americans eat it up because it always looks somewhat legitimate at first glance.”

CIS’s veneer of legitimacy starts with its motto on the top of its website claiming the group is “low-immigration, pro-immigrant.” But the truth is that CIS was founded by white nationalist John Tanton and throughout its 30-plus years of existence, the group has promoted an immigration platform that has never strayed far from its origins. In between reports about the cost of undocumented immigration are others promoting age-old racist tropes about immigrants bringing disease into the country and blaming them for increases in crime, as well as fear-mongering around terrorism. In 2011, for instance, CIS attempted to add a “scholarly veneer” to the “terror babies” concept, arguing that birthright citizenship left the nation at risk of raising future terrorists.

The CIS reports follow a similar pattern: after posing the problem of immigration, they then shift focus to claims there are only two solutions to immigration reform – amnesty or mass deportation, and argue that neither of these options would be successful. In offering a third solution, attrition through enforcement, CIS reports focus on five main themes: 1) the relationship between ICE and undocumented immigrants, 2) immigrants are criminals and terrorists, 3) immigrants use a disproportionate amount of welfare, 4) immigrants negatively affect the U.S. economy, 5) the general public wants to reduce immigration.

The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) rounded up four debunked studies back in 2009. What follows is a look at more recent CIS studies, challenged by an array of immigration policy experts. When the economic analyses and arguments advanced by CIS come apart, the foundation for the “low immigration, pro-immigrant” vision of the organization shifts to what Tanton, CIS founder, said in a letter in 1993: "I've come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that."
...<<<

Center for Immigration Studies debunked

Since 1985, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) has served as the anti-immigrant movement’s go-to think tank. The organizaton publishes dozens of reports and hundreds of blog pieces each year that are cited by elected officials and the media. But its reports have been widely criticized and...

www.splcenter.org

 

[GO-NAD!]

Whoa whoa whoa. Who said he's my 'hero'?

I made an assumption, based on your hagiography of him.

I missattributed so for that you have my correction on the matter.

Noted.

It's not gaslighting in any form or fashion. You and yours when something obvious gets pointed out move the goal posts.

Claiming something is obvious when it isn't even true, never mind obvious, is just more gaslighting. Calling me and @adk highlander "rascists" is utter calumny.

Musk has been a citizen since 2002. He was going to Stanford and then started his own business. The TLDR is that he initially came over legally, wasn't a net drain, and was given 45 days to correct his status which he did.

The fact of the matter is:

1: Kicked off the EV revolution
2: Kicked off the EV infrastructure market
3: Kicked off large scale battery production/development
4: Completely revolutionized the LEO launch market globally
5: Completely revolutionized Satellite internet

View attachment 71154

Remember that blue bar represents ~11 million people out of a population of ~330 million.

From the same Paper:

Conclusion
Illegal immigrants are a significant net fiscal drain -- paying less in taxes than they use in public
services. The primary reason they create more in costs than they pay in taxes is their relative low
levels of education. Based on prior research, 69 percent of adult illegal immigrants have no
education beyond high school, compared to 35 percent of the U.S.-born. As a result, they tend to
earn modest wages and make modest tax contributions even when income and payroll taxes are
taken out of their pay. This fact, coupled with the relatively heavy demands they make on public
coffers -- especially for education, health care, and means-tested programs -- is the reason they
are a net fiscal drain.
We estimate that 59 percent of illegal immigrant households use one or more major welfare
programs, costing roughly $42 billion a year. At the local level, the largest single cost is for
public education. We estimate the cost of educating the children of illegal immigrants, most of
whom are U.S.-born, totals $69 billion per year. While illegal immigrants often receive other
services for their U.S.-born children, even when we estimate the net fiscal impact of just the
illegal immigrants themselves, excluding their U.S.-born children, we still find they create a
lifetime net fiscal drain of $68,000 on average (taxes paid minus benefits received).
Even though illegal immigrants are net fiscal drains, they do pay a significant amount in taxes.
We estimate illegal immigrants pay $25.9 billion a year to the federal government.
Unfortunately, their tax contributions do not cover their consumption of public services.

Source

I'm not questioning Musk's status in the US, or his business achievements (although his business practices can certainly be questioned). I'm saying he is a demagogue and a danger to American democracy.

Pointing out the relative contributions to the US economy - Musk vs illegal immigrants - is a non sequitur to me, as I made no argument one way or the other.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Whoa whoa whoa. Who said he's my 'hero'?

I missattributed so for that you have my correction on the matter.

It's not gaslighting in any form or fashion. You and yours when something obvious gets pointed out move the goal posts.

Musk has been a citizen since 2002. He was going to Stanford and then started his own business. The TLDR is that he initially came over legally, wasn't a net drain, and was given 45 days to correct his status which he did.

The fact of the matter is:

1: Kicked off the EV revolution
2: Kicked off the EV infrastructure market
3: Kicked off large scale battery production/development
4: Completely revolutionized the LEO launch market globally
5: Completely revolutionized Satellite internet

View attachment 71154

Remember that blue bar represents ~11 million people out of a population of ~330 million.

From the same Paper:

Conclusion
Illegal immigrants are a significant net fiscal drain -- paying less in taxes than they use in public
services. The primary reason they create more in costs than they pay in taxes is their relative low
levels of education. Based on prior research, 69 percent of adult illegal immigrants have no
education beyond high school, compared to 35 percent of the U.S.-born. As a result, they tend to
earn modest wages and make modest tax contributions even when income and payroll taxes are
taken out of their pay. This fact, coupled with the relatively heavy demands they make on public
coffers -- especially for education, health care, and means-tested programs -- is the reason they
are a net fiscal drain.
We estimate that 59 percent of illegal immigrant households use one or more major welfare
programs, costing roughly $42 billion a year. At the local level, the largest single cost is for
public education. We estimate the cost of educating the children of illegal immigrants, most of
whom are U.S.-born, totals $69 billion per year. While illegal immigrants often receive other
services for their U.S.-born children, even when we estimate the net fiscal impact of just the
illegal immigrants themselves, excluding their U.S.-born children, we still find they create a
lifetime net fiscal drain of $68,000 on average (taxes paid minus benefits received).
Even though illegal immigrants are net fiscal drains, they do pay a significant amount in taxes.
We estimate illegal immigrants pay $25.9 billion a year to the federal government.
Unfortunately, their tax contributions do not cover their consumption of public services.

Source

Kind of my issue with Musk. What did he revolutionize that is marketable? I'm just not seeing it in regard to EV and Tesla. What advances has he made that translate to industry use? Or just simply big advances in tech? My feeling is we're getting so much closer.....to what that says EVs will be the wave of the future? I hope cause its either something after FF or find another planet.

 

[mtrycrafts]

....

Voters need to stop being gullible, voting for what is promised and letting the elected get away with not following through.

That's the problem. Cure? Does not exist as it is too hard to acquire for most.

 

[jinjuku]

Kind of my issue with Musk. What did he revolutionize that is marketable?

I guess nothing but he still manages to have a personal market cap of $400,000,000,000. All smoke and mirrors eh?

I don't think Dems stand a chance in 2028 either now... Unbelievable sophistry.

 

[jinjuku]

. I'm saying he is a demagogue and a danger to American democracy.

And I'm done with the doomer generation. All worked up over nothing. I don't see any armband brigades outside my window.

 

[Dude#1279435]

I guess nothing but he still manages to have a personal market cap of $400,000,000,000. All smoke and mirrors eh?

I don't think Dems stand a chance in 2028 either now... Unbelievable sophistry.

Not exactly that but like what's the point of driverless vehicles? So you can read a book? I don't get it.

 

[jinjuku]

Not exactly that but like what's the point of driverless vehicles? So you can read a book? I don't get it.

I think it would be awesome for person with disability to be able to plug in a destination and simply get there.

I would love to see loosely interconnected self drive systems that is aware of other vehicles and they exchange basic conditions telemetry and reduced accidents.

I would love to see a loosely interconnected fleet that would fudging zipper merge correctly and reduce traffic snarl.

I would love to see an EV fleet with good battery chemistries that are recyclable, cold weather resistant, range capable, and lower pollution index when all is said and done.

 

[3db]

Funny how billionaires are going to decide on the fate of Medicare and SS for the common peeps. I'm sure Trump will once again reduce taxes for the ultra-rich. Oh well we voted for this.

Money looks after money and this is endemic to all countries, not only the US. What makes the US so special in this case is that they voted a convicted felon into office, (a MAJOR flaw in the US constitution that needs to be amended or fixed) one who played on the US's paranoia of its borders, one who's going to further decimate the middle class, and one that fractures instead of uniting the peoples of the US. Short sighted goals of the people who voted for Trump will be no better off than those who voted against him. Therein lies the biggest irony of all.

 

[davidscott]

So, what is Trump going to do about all the undocumented people at his hotels and golf courses?

 

[GO-NAD!]

And I'm done with the doomer generation. All worked up over nothing. I don't see any armband brigades outside my window.

If it turns out that I'm wrong, I'll be happy to admit it, because being right would be...unpleasant.

 

[jinjuku]

So, what is Trump going to do about all the undocumented people at his hotels and golf courses?

Tyson foods had some chicken processing plants raided because of hiring illegal immigrants.

They rehired locals at ~$3 more an hour.