Electro Voice 30w 30inch sub woofer

[tinidus]

Sorry members, I have cooled down a bit. I assumed as a novice incorrectly that this was a place to cut other people down. I will try to avoid conflict and have a small laugh here and there.
The cone on these speakers are molded foam. I hooked a tone generator up to this a few hours ago and it was wild. I turned it down to a little below 20 cycles and things were falling off the walls. I could not hear a tone but felt like I was in a jar of jelly. I contacted an old musician who agreed with me that the 160 watts was a conservative number EV put out. He said it is more around 300-400 watts peak that is when I thought it would be 500 or 600 watts. I went to buy the plans for the 76 cubic foot cab someone bought it. Must have been TLS GUY.
That cab is huge takes it down to 17hz that's wild. In my opinion the thiel/smalls does not come into play because I plan to port the cab. Sure it might not take a thousand watts but I would like to see people try and stay sane in my living room if I do build these cabs. Put 120 watts in you get 123 db at 30hz......... I am interested to see what the specs are for the huge 76 cubic foot cab. I bet women would enjoy my couch a little too much. Thanks Guys.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry members, I have cooled down a bit. I assumed as a novice incorrectly that this was a place to cut other people down. I will try to avoid conflict and have a small laugh here and there.
The cone on these speakers are molded foam. I hooked a tone generator up to this a few hours ago and it was wild. I turned it down to a little below 20 cycles and things were falling off the walls. I could not hear a tone but felt like I was in a jar of jelly. I contacted an old musician who agreed with me that the 160 watts was a conservative number EV put out. He said it is more around 300-400 watts peak that is when I thought it would be 500 or 600 watts. I went to buy the plans for the 76 cubic foot cab someone bought it. Must have been TLS GUY.
That cab is huge takes it down to 17hz that's wild. In my opinion the thiel/smalls does not come into play because I plan to port the cab. Sure it might not take a thousand watts but I would like to see people try and stay sane in my living room if I do build these cabs. Put 120 watts in you get 123 db at 30hz......... I am interested to see what the specs are for the huge 76 cubic foot cab. I bet women would enjoy my couch a little too much. Thanks Guys.

Welcome back!

The Thiel/Small parameters definitely come into play with a ported enclosure, in fact that is where they are most critical. A small misalignment is highly significant and impairs results. The T/S parameters have to be taken into account designing sealed, ported, transmission lines, and according to Dr Edgar, horns also.

As far as power. Regard it as 160 watts. Under domestic conditions a 10 watt amp will be plenty. With that unit properly loaded a 10 watt amp will create as high an spl as any subs talked about on these forums.

I will have the manual soon. I will look at it, add the data to my base and load it to the national T/S data base. I will model sealed, ported, and if it looks promising a TL alignment.

I will post all the results here. I will post a copy of the brochure on my website, and then you can purchase it.

Sorry I beat you to the punch, but you will have it in the end if you wish, and a lot of others will get this data along the way, and for years to come.

It was just dumb luck or serendipity you made that post when you did. It will all work out for the best.

We will help you put that speaker to the best possible use.

 

[Seth=L]

I apologize tinidus, I meant no offense. Receivers in the past where conservatively (or at least correctly rated after the big FCC crackdown on power ratings [I think it was the FCC?]). Now receivers are often rated way above what should be standard.

 

[sparky77]

Since my last post I have found an original E/V manual for that driver, including plans for the E/V enclosure for it. The T/S parameters are included. Since the post only had 5 hours to run, I have bought it. I doubt there are many of those around.

I hope what you bought includes more details than this does.

 

[TLS Guy]

I hope what you bought includes more details than this does.

So do I, but it looks like the same document. This driver likely predates, Thiel and Small's paper. I can not find a set of T/S parameters for that driver anywhere.

The curves tell you a lot though. You can tell by the impedance curve that huge enclosure does load the driver correctly.

The normal loading loads it correctly and F3 is 26 Hz. Not very impressive. The mistuned alignment extends the lower limit, but F3 is a very unimpressive 30 Hz. They say you can EQ it, however in ported enclosures you really can't as distortion rises drastically and limits total output from the driver.

You can tell that that driver is actually only a 60 watt driver and not 160 watts. However the driver is very efficient and produces 3 acoustic watts from its maximum 60 watt drive. This is about 10 times the efficiency of a modern driver.

So a modern driver would need about 600 watts for the same output, if it could take it.

So basically this driver will be comparable or slightly exceed the spl of a modern sub, but not actually have as good a deep bass reach and require, the work, expense and inconvenience of a huge enclosure. Basically the driver is of historic interest and not really practical. Also, I think if you drive that speaker with an amp over 50 to 60 watts it will soon be a boat anchor.

 

[annunaki]

I would not say it is necessarily efficient. It is more, simply, physics at play. It has a massive surface area advantage. It simply does not need to move far to move a lot of air. If the cone is very light, a smaller motor and lower power could be used.

In any case, I have a feeling this driver may not be worth the hassle. 76ft^3 is a massive enclosure, even for a 30" driver. I believe Clarion sold a 32" woofer a few years back. That may be something to look for if you are into ultra large woofers.

Linearity will be an issue with any driver that old (specifically nearing it's excursion envelope), as there have been significant increases there in just the last 7-10 yrs.

 

[tinidus]

These two speakers are what is left from my father years upon years ago. He had a total of six. Four were in cabs that were somewhat small for the speaker. When my parents split my mother sold the four for $100 dollars each. She is notorious for doing things like that. I remember playing ontop of the cabs and my sister and I could put our bodies way into the ports and feel the massive air movement, I was about four years of age. I stored these when I left home on my own pretty young. I moved to a new house in Naples FL and realized I still had these while relocating from California. I said someday I will build cabs for these. That was years ago as well. I always thought they could not compare to the subs of now days. I have more subs than I probably need but it is a free country and I would have more if I could afford it. I must have eight 18" subs some peavey black widows some eminence's and some celestions. I have six 15" mostly black widows. I have a host of smaller subs that I consider mid range because that is what I use them for. A ton of tens some eights oh yea the 12" too.
I am no expert that's for sure, hence me joining this here forum for enlightenment. I have to admit thiel/smalls is getting technical for me.
I did find some info on the smaller cab designs I have.
Low Frequency 3-db-Down point: 30 hz
also I have an old graph for the power input vs Duty Factor for the speaker itself. It shows The POWER INPUT, WATTS RMS DURING ON-TIME and it is up to 160 watts. The surface area for the speaker is 500 square inches. It also says at full power input cone motion is within the linear range.
I even hooked it up to my triton keyboard and the cone was really going up and down for the low keys. I agree a 76 cubic foot cab is huge seeing no one can hear 17hz. On the old falling apart plans it shows instructions for wall mounting. I could also mount the speakers on the wall that connects with my garage and use my garage as a cab. hahaha

 

[annunaki]

I see an infinite baffle as the only realistic type of solution for this driver, assuming it's suitable based upon specifications.

 

[tinidus]

Hello Audiophiles,
What other infinite baffles could I use other than my garage or attic...(bring on the crazy ideas I think I am running out)? Would the plans for the 76 cubic foot cab suffice as an infinite baffle, or is big just not that big? Would backward mounting ever come into play here as an option? Should I suspend them from ceiling and bolt them cone to cone and reverse one? Its okay to laugh at that one...But I might experiment it.
Please feel free to elaborate your opinions and or ideas some of them are bound to be within my means.

 

[tinidus]

Hello Audiophiles,
What other infinite baffles could I use other than my garage or attic...(bring on the crazy ideas I think I am running out)? Would the plans for the 76 cubic foot cab suffice as an infinite baffle, or is big just not that big? Would backward mounting ever come into play here as an option? Should I suspend them from ceiling and bolt them cone to cone and reverse one? Its okay to laugh at that one...But I might experiment it.
Please feel free to elaborate your opinions and or ideas some of them are bound to be within my means.

Does professor T/S paper adhere to infinite baffles as well?

 

[TLS Guy]

Does professor T/S paper adhere to infinite baffles as well?

Not directly at that time, but we do know what parameters are important for infinite baffle. Let me see what we get out of the EV document, when I get it.

In the meantime look at this website. This guy is the undisputed world expert on open baffle, and has done careful work on it. He is highly regarded.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I apologize tinidus, I meant no offense. Receivers in the past where conservatively (or at least correctly rated after the big FCC crackdown on power ratings [I think it was the FCC?]). Now receivers are often rated way above what should be standard.

I think it is the FTC that cares about lying in advertisements
And, they have set up a standard protocol to measure the amps. Some may follow it, others use different setups that is usually disclosed.

 

[mtrycrafts]

So do I, but it looks like the same document. This driver likely predates, Thiel and Small's paper. I can not find a set of T/S parameters for that driver anywhere.

The curves tell you a lot though. You can tell by the impedance curve that huge enclosure does load the driver correctly.

The normal loading loads it correctly and F3 is 26 Hz. Not very impressive. The mistuned alignment extends the lower limit, but F3 is a very unimpressive 30 Hz. They say you can EQ it, however in ported enclosures you really can't as distortion rises drastically and limits total output from the driver.

You can tell that that driver is actually only a 60 watt driver and not 160 watts. However the driver is very efficient and produces 3 acoustic watts from its maximum 60 watt drive. This is about 10 times the efficiency of a modern driver.

So a modern driver would need about 600 watts for the same output, if it could take it.

So basically this driver will be comparable or slightly exceed the spl of a modern sub, but not actually have as good a deep bass reach and require, the work, expense and inconvenience of a huge enclosure. Basically the driver is of historic interest and not really practical. Also, I think if you drive that speaker with an amp over 50 to 60 watts it will soon be a boat anchor.

And, modern subs don't need half a room as an enclosure

 

[mtrycrafts]

I could also mount the speakers on the wall that connects with my garage and use my garage as a cab. hahaha

Yes, just make sure your garage doors are tight or it will rattle and the neighbors might get very curious what is going on in there

 

[Haoleb]

with a sensitivity of 54db it would seem you like you'd need about 50,000 watts to get that puppy up to speed!

 

[TLS Guy]

with a sensitivity of 54db it would seem you like you'd need about 50,000 watts to get that puppy up to speed!

It's 101db 1 watt at 1 meter!

 

[tinidus]

It is 105 db @ 1 watt ....

 

[colin.p]

Like this guy did

http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm

Wow, I must be right up there with the esoteric crowd, I have the SAME turntable. (of course, the rest of my stuff is all crap, but I have the SAME turntable).
Now I can go around and brag how cool I am.

(ahem) Sir Colin

 

[jinjuku]

. I contacted an old musician who agreed with me that the 160 watts was a conservative number EV put out. He said it is more around 300-400 watts peak that is when I thought it would be 500 or 600 watts.

It seems alot of equipment back then was very under rated. I have a Crown DC300A. Even at 27 yrs old both channels don't start clipping until they hit 198 watt's per channel. The thing runs almost a full 25% above it's manufacturer spec.

 

[Adam]

Wow, I must be right up there with the esoteric crowd, I have the SAME turntable. (of course, the rest of my stuff is all crap, but I have the SAME turntable).
Now I can go around and brag how cool I am.

(ahem) Sir Colin

Cool, indeed, Sir Colin! Do you also have your turntable mounted on top of rusty springs?

[Sorry...back to the thread.]