Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
WRT future gasoline prices, do you think this will be driven by supply & demand, or governments shoving their/global agendas down peoples' throats, just to fit the narrative that all fossil fuels are bad and ignoring the facts about Methane & water vapor being worse greenhouse gases than CO2?
The set of options you mentioned present a false choice. Simple supply & demand conditions for petroleum products do not now exist, nor in my memory, did they ever. Most of the agendas that governments have shoved down people's throats involve guaranteed subsidies and long-term profits for big oil. We already have over 100 years of experience with big oil corporations. They absolutely will act out of greed and self-preservation.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
When was this supply & demand of gasoline prices independent of government agenda?

It never was.
A long time ago, but it's OPEC+ that determines price, not the US government, other than when they US gov't) interfere with supply. I'm referring more to adding fees, taxes and other BS to the cost, like some kind of "We have set a time limit and you can't stop us, so we're going to make it unaffordable in order to force you to change".

If the US government was causing the price to be increased unnecessarily in about 1969, I would like to return to that time because my dad paid 14.9 cents/gallon when we were driving back from a trip.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The set of options you mentioned present a false choice. Simple supply & demand conditions for petroleum products do not now exist, nor in my memory, did they ever. Most of the agendas that governments have shoved down people's throats involve guaranteed subsidies and long-term profits for big oil. We already have over 100 years of experience with big oil corporations. They absolutely will act out of greed and self-preservation.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
They know their market. If they went full EV, it would probably not sell to the same crowd.
At this point in time I agree, hell there is a sizable contingent of the Corvette community that hasn't even accepted the C8 platform, let alone a full blown EV version of it !

But as far as 'the same crowd', those of us that know Corvettes, like Harley, know that crowd is getting mighty old and 'new blood' is the answer for survival !
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Now that I've had my new EV (Volvo C40) for about 3 months, I've got a few comments. All of them are favorable :). One of my biggest worries before buying an EV was how would I react to "driving a computer" instead of driving a fully analog car, like I've done since the late 60s. So far, my experience has been better than expected.

Today, I ran my car's first operating system software update. Volvo had notified me (by email & through the smartphone app) that v.2.7 was available. All I had to do was drive the car, and the new system update downloaded automatically. Next, the car told me it would take up to 1.5 hours to install the software. All I had to do was touch the INSTALL button, park & lock the car, and leave it alone. It would notify me through my phone when it was done. All that happened as promised. It actually took less than a ½ hour.

So why am I happy about all this? That's how things should be, right? The car's operating system, developed by Volvo/Polestar with cooperation from Google, works well. The instruction menus & prompts I see are easy to understand & follow. They make it clear & obvious what I have to do. Nothing was ambiguous or written in a way that raised more questions that it answered. Obviously, all this was written – and proofread – by a native English speaker. I can think of plenty of examples (i.e Microsoft or Denon) where this effort wasn't so successful.

I don't know how well other EV cars do with their operating system–user interfaces. I would hope they also work well. Driving a car while trying to deal with a computer interface is quite different than when sitting at home or at work with a PC. After 3 months, I'm happy with what I've experienced.

Remember that I went from a 2000 Volvo S70 sedan with all analog controls for the driver – to a 2023 EV with essentially all computerized digital controls. Yes, there's a steering wheel & and "gas" pedal that I use as I've always done, but they are really digital – I "drive by wire" with them too. Here are a few other unexpected but pleasant surprises I've had:
  • The 4 optical sensors are great. Their peripheral-view make parking & driving in narrow spaces quite easy.

  • The electric heat pump works very well. (I haven't used the AC yet.) On a cold morning I can turn on the heat before going out to the car. I can even program this to work by a timer. If I wasn't retired, this would be great each morning.

  • The heated seats & steering wheel are simply wonderful. Much better than I expected. They are meant to supplement the cabin heating. Instead of heating the cabin to 72° F, I run it to 68°, and heat the seat & steering wheel as needed for comfort. This works well, although I don't often drive on cold mornings.

  • The car's Google Map navigation system is much better than what's on my phone. It always shows 2 displays, one on the dash board, and the other on the central screen. The dash board shows the next step in detail, and the central screen shows the big picture. I can see both whenever I want. The voice prompts, coming through the car's audio system, are clear and easy to understand. Changing volume is no different than changing the volume of music on the car's audio system.

  • The car's seats are as good as Volvo seats have always been, that is excellent. They are comfortable and highly adjustable. In contrast, Telsa's seats were not as good, on a ½ hour test drive. I'm 6 feet tall and my wife is 5'2". We both are happy sitting in the car.
I'm not saying only the Volvo C40 has this, nor am I saying that no other EV has this. What I am saying is that I like what Volvo has done. I believe it stems from the fact that Volvo is a car maker that had to learn about integrating a computer system into a motor vehicle. A company like Tesla is first a computer tech company that had to learn how to make cars. In my experience, I'm glad I chose Volvo's product.

In short, I like driving my Volvo C40 EV. I might have also liked the Tesla Model Y that I also test drove. But I continue to be extremely glad I didn't buy the Tesla. Tesla's price was way too high, buying one without the $15,000 automated driver system option wasn't really an option, and I hated the idea of giving my money to that SOB Elon Musk.

Later this spring, I'll take my first road trip. Only then will I understand if charging on a road trip works well or not so well. Stay tuned.
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
In short, I like driving my Volvo C40 EV. I might have also liked the Tesla Model Y that I also test drove. But I continue to be extremely glad I didn't buy the Tesla. Tesla's price was way too high, buying one without the $15,000 automated driver system option wasn't really an option, and I hated the idea of giving my money to that SOB Elon Musk.
That $15K might be money well-spent if your steering wheel falls off though.
Tesla being investigated for steering wheels coming off on Model Y | CNN Business
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Sounds like an assembly / manufacturing failure for the steering wheels. It means there was no check in place to ensure that was done correctly. I agree, I have a hard time giving that guy my money.

My black car is smogged and ready to go up for sale, so once that happens I will be on the lookout for an EV. The '24 Polestar 2 is an option, but I am interested to see the 4 also once they release it. The 4 is supposed to actually go on sale in Nov. but it hasn't been spec'ed or shown - that is supposedly coming soon. Camouflaged images show it right around the same size/appearance as the Model Y:



The Ionic 5N is really what I am after and it also comes out late this year. No pricing or actual date released yet. Read an article yesterday by someone who was invited to actually drive the new N in Sweden and the impression was it is a fun car with drivers in mind :)
 
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flyboylr45

flyboylr45

Senior Audioholic
Exactly. Sports car drivers are generally not interested in moving to EV's yet.
Well, I had 3 electric cars. I have a Nissan Leaf which I bought for my mom, a Tesla Model Y Dual Motor for my wife and I had a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Between all 3, my electric bill went up about $30 a month. All of them are great cars if you commute back and forth to work and have level 2 charging capabilities at home. It would be a no brainer. You do save $$ if you were shopping for a comparable gas vehicle. Now, if you were to compare a Model Y or even the Nissan Leaf to a Toyota Corolla then it would take a while before you would see any savings. As far as the Sports car drivers, I’ve always been into cars and how they feel on the road. I had a C7 Z51 which I used to track at different tracks around the US. The Model 3 Performance I had was super fast and felt great. You could feel the acceleration start to peter off after about 70mph. Yes, the (NO) sound of the engine took away from the Sports car experience even though the car felt sporty. I sold the Performance and got an M4 with a manual transmission. Yes, the Tesla is faster off the line, even faster than the C7 Corvette it replaced but, the M4 is a different experience. Different materials inside and just an overall different experience. The electric cars are boring, practical but , boring. Even the maintenance on them is boring, because there almost isn’t any to be done. I think when they do become more mainstream (affordable), they will replace the ICE car. Now with Tesla opening up some chargers to off brand EVs, they will become more popular. It will be interesting to see how that burdens Tesla users. I drive from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale a few times a month for work and the chargers were usually pretty busy with just Tesla cars, can imagine that waiting will be the name of the game in the near future as anyone will be able to charge in them, not just Tesla owners. We shall see…
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Might be joining the EV crowd soon...
Kind of eager.

I'll share more as this develops.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Might be joining the EV crowd soon...
Kind of eager. I'll share more as this develops.
If you're going EV anytime soon, it's time now to look at your circuit breaker panel to see if it's easily expandable or not. You also should think now about where you plan to install a Level 2 charger. In a garage, under some kind of covered parking such as a carport, or outdoors? Personally, I'd prefer at least covered parking to keep the charger & yourself out of the rain. But to be honest, the chargers I've seen are rated as 'all weather'.

Back to circuit breakers … my old panel, installed new with the house in 1993 was fine, as long as I didn't try to add more circuits. It had 200 amp service with 30 slots for breakers. It was already full. A single level 2 charger, will require 240 Volts – 2 standard slots ganged together. And it requires at least 50A – for my EV. It depends on what EV you get, but the trend is getting larger & larger. Some EV pick-up trucks have huge batteries, and use an 80A charger. Compare that to a typical home circuit of 120V 15A. (Or an audiophile-grade circuit of 120V and 20A ;).)

I had to replace my circuit breaker panel with a larger 42 slot box. That cost me 5 figures! Where I live, the county will inspect any electical work this large, so I got an electrician to do the work. Get more than 1 estimate. (If you really want to know how much it cost, ask by PM.)

In the new box, I had the electrician install a 240V 100A circuit that ran out to a sub-panel in my detached 2-car garage. You read that right, 100 amps. I decided to set it up now for easy expansion for 2 chargers in the future. At present, I have one level 2 charger. To add another charger, all I have to do is add another 50A line from the garage sub-panel for the second charger. My wife & I are both retired and we don't drive everyday anymore. At this point, I think one charger is enough for us. But for a future owner, that could easily change.

Buy a charger you can mount permanently, on a wall. Most come with an easy way to coil & hang the heavy cable. All EVs come with a charger and ~20 foot cable capable of both Level 1 (120V slow charging) and Level 2 (240V faster charging). My first thought was why buy a 2nd charger? The car dealer talked me out of this idea. Keep the portable charger & cable supplied with the EV in the front trunk (the frunk). It's just too easy to leave that clunky charger & heavy, stiff cable in the garage. If you need it on the road you won't have it.

When I bought mine, I was in a hurry, and I was bewildered at the large choice when I shopped at Home Depot/Lowes. The cheaper chargers provide less current, as low as 16A. My car can use as much as 48A, so a 50A charger is common now. In the near future, bigger current chargers like 80A could easily be the norm.

I also didn't really understand the deal about a smart charger with built-in control software vs. a dumb charger. Telsa provides sells a dumb charger for $400 because the car has the software in it. So does my car. I paid $750 for a smart charger sold by ChargePoint, when I didn't really need it. It works well. It can charge EVs at 16, 32, 40, or 50 amps. And it communicates to me via a smartphone app. But that duplicated what my Volvo EV already does.

So, when you look for EVs, ask three questions: 1) What Level 2 current charger is needed by the EV, 2) Does the EV have all the software for charging built-in or not? Do you need a smart charger or a dumb one, and 3) Does your existing WiFi reach the location where you plan to put the EV & charger? For the smart EV & smart charger to actually communicate with my phone, I had to expand my WiFi to reach the garage. Blue Tooth was said to be an option, but I couldn't get it to work reliably. When you think about where you want that charger, also think about your WiFi coverage. That's yet another expense.

My electrician suggested a charger brand called Juice Box. They come in a variety of fixed charge currents, that vary widely in price. The Juice Box model for 50 amp charging cost $100 less than the smart & variable ChargePoint I got. I didn't buy it because I was in a hurry, and didn't know precisely what I needed.

So, be prepared by seeing if your electricity service can be expanded for at least a 240V 50A charger; find out what your EV will require for fast (about 8 hours) Level 2 charging, be prepared to spend some money on this. In my opinion, an EV without a Level 2 charger at home is not worth having. I like being able to control & monitor the charging process from my phone while I'm in the house. I can set up a timer to charge at night when lower electricity rates are available.
 
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