haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
Another thing here guys is the simple fuel prices.....
Today, the price of Diesel around her is NOK 24.78 per liter, that translates to USD 8.92 per gallon

Maybe there would be some outrage in US with such fuel prices, I reckon it´s something like around $4 or less per gallen, way way way below what we do have here..... so cost of fuel is a major driver for EV cars all across Nordics...
 
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haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
I don't think you see me writing that Norway doesn't have a very high adoption of EVs?

I'm also not saying your numbers are wrong or false.

I'm simply saying that you can't take sales statistics (especially not for a single brand) and extrapolate these to indicate the extend of adoption of EVs. That is what I find misleading. It's not something those numbers can actually do.

Note that Eppie for example immediately pondered over the fact that Canada isn't on the list despite seeing Tesla's on the road. I had the same notion - I see Tesla's left and right and there are substantially more EVs and specifically Tesla's here than your table would indicate.

If you look at more meaningful sources, for example the registration data of EVs in the EU27 as percentage of new registrations, you'll find a picture much more in line with reality, when speaking of EV adoption. Note that this is still old data (2022 as your table).

Please note how many countries shift position significantly in the "ranking" when you factor in inhabitants, all car brands and look at registrations (graph on the left) vs sales numbers from a single brand.

In my opinion, this data is much more valid as an indication of EV adoption, but even so still only for 2022 in isolation. It's not an accumulative number. So it doesn't tell us what is on the street, but rather how what is on the streets is changing.

To expand on that point, Denmark had registered a total of 100,000 EVs by October 12, 2023 and 200,000 EVs by end of the same year. So the first 100,000 vehicles took around a decade while the next 100,000 took less than three months. So in a changing market like EVs, it's not always reliable to study snapshots of two years ago.



I'm raising this point because it is exceptionally difficult to actually find reliable, neutral and comparable information on specifically the cumulative adoption of EVs by country - and probably because of that, most of the EV debate seems to constantly revolve around drawing conclusions from statistical sources that aren't really suited to make those conclusions. Not to even begin on the lobbying and other influences on the majority of available data out there.

In my opinion it's a plague of the EV debate because if reliable and accurate data is presented in a loyal way, everyone benefits except perhaps those with vested interests (lobbying) and honestly, I couldn't care less if their perspectives arent honoured.

You see the exact same with fires, where data is misused or not used. Every EV fire gets massive attention, yet statistically they are significantly less likely to burst into flames than ICE vehicles. The issue is rather to put out the fires in EVs, and when we discuss this with valid data, we find effective solutions, like different methods of firefighting. But when we misuse data, we get dumb poop like "Ban EVs from ferries and parking structures, and if you own one, park it outside your garage well clear of anything."

Valid data and loyal use of it is important. :)
I agree that new car sales and EV adoption rate is two very different things indeed, the guys buying a Tesla and decommissioning an older EV does not count to the EV adoption rate, but if we look at what is happening around here it has been a momentous rate of petrol and diesel cars going out ... to be replaced by EV´s

It may also be that the source I cited is very unreliable, probably official figures from, say Tesla would be better!
I am not sure if there are any valid reliable sources to EV adoption .....

Again, it´s a debate how much more environmental friendly some EV´s are, we need to look into the whole lifecycle of the car, including the production line, and the production line of batteries and so on ....

About fire, yes there was a major fire in a parking garage outside Stavanger Airport some years ago, even closing down the whole airport. the source of the fire was a Diesel car, I don´t remember which brand.-
 
mono-bloc

mono-bloc

Full Audioholic
The problem is charging power supplies via a plug in, has been super seeded, It's dead technology. And has been superseded with on board chargers, powered by a very small petrol engine.This allows for unlimited millage , without the fear of the battery going flat. This was tested using AUDI prototypes.

 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
The problem is charging power supplies via a plug in, has been super seeded, It's dead technology. And has been superseded with on board chargers, powered by a very small petrol engine.This allows for unlimited millage , without the fear of the battery going flat. This was tested using AUDI prototypes.

Hybrids have been around a long time. Hybrids that use the motor only there to charge the battery are maybe 5 or so years old, and those still support being plugged in. Theoretically, if your battery does not drop below a certain level, the motor would not turn on. "Unlimited" mileage is not exactly true, that gas motor still runs on fuel that needs to be filled up and it won't instantly charge the battery to full. I presume the motor keeps the battery at some level of charge to maintain a certain range. "ReFuel" is something I hadn't heard of, but can they produce it as consumer demand levels for a reasonable cost?

eFuel is something a number of manufacturers are trying to push forward as cleaner and sustainable and usable by existing gas motors. Audi, Porsche, Siemens, and many others are on board with it. We will have to see if that catches on.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
eFuel is something a number of manufacturers are trying to push forward as cleaner and sustainable and usable by existing gas motors. Audi, Porsche, Siemens, and many others are on board with it. We will have to see if that catches on.
eFuel is well .... :rolleyes:
If you need extremely energy demanding plants, to make the eFuel...

Airbus now working towards zero emission Hydrogen driven airplanes, sounds good!

From what I heard it is extremely energy demanding to create the Hydrogen, so I wonder if net effect is negative? or positive?

At least then we do also need zero emission power plants, then we are good :cool:
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
eFuel is well .... :rolleyes:
If you need extremely energy demanding plants, to make the eFuel...

Airbus now working towards zero emission Hydrogen driven airplanes, sounds good!

From what I heard it is extremely energy demanding to create the Hydrogen, so I wonder if net effect is negative? or positive?

At least then we do also need zero emission power plants, then we are good :cool:
Shell shut down most of its hydrogen distribution in Ca. despite the hydrogen cars (I am sure that is very low percentage). So that might tell you that it isn't exactly positive. There is no hydrogen infrastructure, so that is basically the same battle as EVs. eFuel is expensive because nobody mass produces it yet, but it won't solve anyone's problems anytime soon I am sure and it won't catch on as long as regular gas production exists.

Regular gas hybrids are likely here for the foreseeable future, despite the proposed roadmaps of most manufacturers.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
Shell shut down most of its hydrogen distribution in Ca. despite the hydrogen cars (I am sure that is very low percentage). So that might tell you that it isn't exactly positive. There is no hydrogen infrastructure, so that is basically the same battle as EVs. eFuel is expensive because nobody mass produces it yet, but it won't solve anyone's problems anytime soon I am sure and it won't catch on as long as regular gas production exists.

Regular gas hybrids are likely here for the foreseeable future, despite the proposed roadmaps of most manufacturers.
eFuel = Hype? :rolleyes:
 
N

nicoleise

Junior Audioholic
About fire, yes there was a major fire in a parking garage outside Stavanger Airport some years ago, even closing down the whole airport. the source of the fire was a Diesel car, I don´t remember which brand.-
Yea, I remember that and it's a great example of getting facts wrong in the public debate too. It was all over the news here as well, and as I recall the Norwegian police initially reported that the fire has started in an EV, but (slightly) later corrected themselves that it actually started in an older diesel car (an Opel Zarifa MPV if my memory serves me well).

The fire raged for days and it was reported that the presence of many EVs that subsequently caught fire made the fire fighting difficult. I can't remember how many cars burned, but I think it was in the hundreds?

I think firefighters everywhere (globally) learned a lot from that fire. It wasn't long after that we really started seeing almost every fire station adding to their arsenal's large blankets, extra tow equipment, robots that can drive under burning cars, lift them up and drive them outside and water filled containers intended to submerge BEVs and HEVs into for 24-48 hours in the event of a fire. And probably at least as important; formulate strategies for fire fighting (any) vehicles inside closed structures, and for fighting fires in EVs in "non-academic scenarios".

That fire I believe also sparked the (misinformed) debate here that still today is brought up every single time there's a vehicle fire, EV or not and never mind the cause of the fire.

Even if a news paper uploads an article about a 30 year old ICE car wrapped around a tree in an accident, completely engulfed in flames, people will still be like "Don't ever buy these fire trap EVs".

It's so tiresome. I wouldn't mind it one bit if it had any merit in reality, but when something wrong gets repeated so much that you see more and more people buy into it because of that, it just seems so wasteful.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Yea, I remember that and it's a great example of getting facts wrong in the public debate too. It was all over the news here as well, and as I recall the Norwegian police initially reported that the fire has started in an EV, but (slightly) later corrected themselves that it actually started in an older diesel car (an Opel Zarifa MPV if my memory serves me well).

The fire raged for days and it was reported that the presence of many EVs that subsequently caught fire made the fire fighting difficult. I can't remember how many cars burned, but I think it was in the hundreds?

I think firefighters everywhere (globally) learned a lot from that fire. It wasn't long after that we really started seeing almost every fire station adding to their arsenal's large blankets, extra tow equipment, robots that can drive under burning cars, lift them up and drive them outside and water filled containers intended to submerge BEVs and HEVs into for 24-48 hours in the event of a fire. And probably at least as important; formulate strategies for fire fighting (any) vehicles inside closed structures, and for fighting fires in EVs in "non-academic scenarios".

That fire I believe also sparked the (misinformed) debate here that still today is brought up every single time there's a vehicle fire, EV or not and never mind the cause of the fire.

Even if a news paper uploads an article about a 30 year old ICE car wrapped around a tree in an accident, completely engulfed in flames, people will still be like "Don't ever buy these fire trap EVs".

It's so tiresome. I wouldn't mind it one bit if it had any merit in reality, but when something wrong gets repeated so much that you see more and more people buy into it because of that, it just seems so wasteful.

The fire trucks around here now include the foam used to put out airplane fuel fires, since there are two major airports in the area, to use on EVs as well as the blankets.
 
N

nicoleise

Junior Audioholic

The fire trucks around here now include the foam used to put out airplane fuel fires, since there are two major airports in the area, to use on EVs as well as the blankets.
Oh. That's another interesting approach, since that foam works by starving the fire of oxygen as well, and can (as with airplane fires) be deployed both rapidly and also from a "safe" distance.

I'm unsure why this approach hasn't been brought up here as we do have foam tenders (different foam though) in most fire departments.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan

A MAJOR smartphone maker has unveiled its first EV that their CEO and founder aims to be "comparable to Porsche and Tesla."

Boasting an eye-watering acceleration and an impressive range of over 500 miles, the gorgeous-looking saloon - which was formally launched on Thursday night in Beijing - could shake up other car makers across the industry.

Chinese electronics brand Xiaomi, best-known for their range of smartphones, has entered the bold world of EVs with its new Speed Ultra 7, or SU7.

It may just be the first of many, as Lei Jun, founder and CEO of Xiaomi, revealed on Weibo that the company is aiming to rub shoulders with the very best EV makers.

He said: “Xiaomi wants to build a ‘dream car’ comparable to Porsche and Tesla.

“If we want to build good cars, we must seriously learn from these two best car manufacturers in the world."

The all-electric motor comes in three different specs; SU7, SU7 Pro and SU7 Max, with the base model managing 434 miles of range while the PRO can hit 516 miles.

All eyes are on the SU7 Max though, capable of 503 miles on a single charge with an ouput of 664 bhp.

It's claimed this top-of-the-range EV will be able to hit 0-62 mph in precisely 2.78 seconds - which certainly matches its hot rival the Porsche Taycan.

Naturally, for a smartphone maker, the SU7 will have a large central touchscreen with the brand’s own HyperOS infotainment system.

And although Xiaomi rivals Apple in the world of smartphones, they've included the option for Apple CarPlay connectivity, too.

However, UK petrolheads interested in the SU7 will have to remain patient for now, as it’s not yet clear if Xiaomi will be selling its EV outside of China.

However, if they do, the next question surrounds pricing.

In China, the standard car will start at 219,900 Yuan, which is roughly £24,000, while the Max will come in at the very reasonable equivalent of £34,000.

Of course, if the SU7 does enter the UK market, it's expected that those prices will rise significantly, with the possibility of UK tariffs being imposed on Chinese EVs.

Meanwhile, this news comes after Nissan revealed plans to release 30 new car models in the next two years with more than half of them to be EVs – and they'll include AI driving tech.

And elsewhere, Lamborghini has revealed a change to its iconic logo - as fans cry "nothing will beat the old one."
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
The problem is charging power supplies via a plug in, has been super seeded, It's dead technology. And has been superseded with on board chargers, powered by a very small petrol engine.This allows for unlimited millage , without the fear of the battery going flat. This was tested using AUDI prototypes.

A pretty interesting RS Q e-tron hybrid racing car and its not small either.

Screenshot 2024-03-30 085016.jpg
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
I kind of fancy the new Renault 5 E-tech, looks super-cool to me, nice for city driving
It´s rumours of prices starting at €25.000, coming around in January 2025.

In Norway we get 220HP, and there is a 300HP Alpine branded version that should be a pocket rocket

But I reckon it is too small for you US guys ;)




 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Tesla appears to be prepping to make their compact here in TX, instead of completely in China, in an effort to ensure it gets the tax credit. Tax credit is lower for a $25k car though, IF they can make it at that price. They still say they can.

I am deciding if I want to replace my car now or wait a bit. I will have the money shortly, now that they totaled my car. The 2025 Hyundai models with the larger battery, and supposedly NACS, won't go on sale here until later in the year. They are on sale now in Korea.
 
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mono-bloc

mono-bloc

Full Audioholic
A pretty interesting RS Q e-tron hybrid racing car and its not small either
Audi introduced three cars in the latest Dakar desert rally, All finished One section was over 1000 kilometres

Really the technology is European based. Like a lot of things. You yanks just steal it and then claim ownership.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Tesla appears to be prepping to make their compact here in TX, instead of completely in China, in an effort to ensure it gets the tax credit. Tax credit is lower for a $25k car though, IF they can make it at that price. They still say they can.
Tesla has apparently postponed or scrapped their new compact saying it will be too difficult to make a profit in the current market.

Audi introduced three cars in the latest Dakar desert rally, All finished One section was over 1000 kilometres

Really the technology is European based. Like a lot of things. You yanks just steal it and then claim ownership.
Yes, the first electric vehicle was invented in Scotland in the 1800s. But the first commercially mass produced was in the US.


The first significant EVs were the GM EV, a lease only car. The second was the Toyota RAV4 EV, which was powered by a Tesla drivetrain while Tesla was basically still a startup.
 

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