Dynamic range of vinyl

[lovinthehd]

Sorry to ressurect this old thread but Im on a mission. Someone in another forum has claimed that the loudness wars has spilled over to DVD and BluRay movie soundtracks and as a result has made it as or less dynamic than vinyl. I know vinyl at its very best is 75db. I don't know the numbers for CD, DVD, and BluRay. I also believe that the loudness war has not spilled into DVD and BluRay media. Anyone have links I can read. I found one and am still looking.

One guy claims it?

 

[3db]

One guy claims it?

Issue resolved. I was to absolute in my statement stating that BluRzy and DVD presented a greater challenge dynamically to amplifiers then all vinyl. I tend to collect action, Marvel, and SciFi flicks so my comparison was made on those genres. In my haste, I forgot to scope in old remakes, drama, and comedies. My bad.

On another note, people have been complaining about the later Disney releases being compressed. I own some of these and they are still far more dynamic than any vinyl that I own.

 

[lovinthehd]

Issue resolved. I was to absolute in my statement stating that BluRzy and DVD presented a greater challenge dynamically to amplifiers then all vinyl. I tend to collect action, Marvel, and SciFi flicks so my comparison was made on those genres. In my haste, I forgot to scope in old remakes, drama, and comedies. My bad.

On another note, people have been complaining about the later Disney releases being compressed. I own some of these and they are still far more dynamic than any vinyl that I own.

I think the issue being reported on Disney releases isn't compression particularly, but cutting off content below 30hz. It would be nice if we had more recordings taking advantage of the dynamic range digital can offer....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think the issue being reported on Disney releases isn't compression particularly, but cutting off content below 30hz. It would be nice if we had more recordings taking advantage of the dynamic range digital can offer....

Yeah the biggest thing is the 30hz neuter jobs. Second is the overall levels people are complaining about too. Some say a MV bump by about 5 to7db brings them back in line, but others disagree. I have found the MV bump to work mostly, BUT I still think that DR could be just a little higher. Age of I Ultron is a good example, and Infinity war too although better. End game imo is better in that regard than most of the marvel stuff but DC wins the day. Ime the Wonder Woman track is much better and bigger, and iirc has better extension. Batman VS Superman too.

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah the biggest thing is the 30hz neuter jobs. Second is the overall levels people are complaining about too. Some say a MV bump by about 5 to7db brings them back in line, but others disagree. I have found the MV bump to work mostly, BUT I still think that DR could be just a little higher. Age of I Ultron is a good example, and Infinity war too although better. End game imo is better in that regard than most of the marvel stuff but DC wins the day. Ime the Wonder Woman track is much better and bigger, and iirc has better extension. Batman VS Superman too.

That neuter at 30hz must be for soundbars. LOL

 

[NINaudio]

That neuter at 30hz must be for soundbars. LOL

If it was really for soundbars they'd neuter it at 120!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If it was really for soundbars they'd neuter it at 120!

Your generosity is duly noted!!! Lol

 

[sterling shoote]

Since an LPs dynamic range is established somewhere during its production, meaning it is what it is, not what it could be, the only relevance to me is whether or not I find a particular LP to be more or less attractive than alternative recording storage mediums. But, to understand attractiveness, does not one need to buy both LP and CD versions of same music to know for sure which delivers the most compelling sound? Nah, no new digitally mastered LPs for me, I've moved on to Apple Music downloads, multi-channel SACD, and multi-channel FLAC downloads.

 

[Bucknekked]

Classical music also really lost its way, for most of the twentieth century. As Sir Thomas Beecham remarked, "not one nth. part of it will survive." Most of it is already forgotten and a footnote to hubris. Actually beautiful music was being written through most of what I have called The Age of Ugliness.

Ok Mark, you have thrown down the gauntlet, now I need some examples of this beautiful music you speak of.
I have tried various times to find my way with classical music. I haven't found the right pieces so far.
Here's your opportunity to provide some teaching and some help.
Can you list some examples of the beautiful music that I can go out and get? You know more than most the challenges of naming/cataloging and finding a particular recording. If you can list me some, I will make the honest effort to go out and get them and give them a careful audition.

 

[highfigh]

I don't know about measurements, but in most cases when I switch from listening to CD's from vinyl, I have to turn the volume up to listen at the same levels as before.

This is obvious to me that LP's do not have the dynamic range of most CD recordings, although DR isn't always the whole story sound quality.

The difference in volume is purely because the phono preamp and cartridge output create a situation where the level is higher. With a lower output cartridge, you wouldn't have to turn it up, or if you did, not by the same degree.

CDs have a theoretical limit of 96dB dynamic range but that doesn't take inherent background noise into consideration. LPs have inherent limitations- if you want full frequency response, the level needs to be lower and if you can give up some of the low end, you can raise the level.

 

[highfigh]

OK, thanks for that info.

I guess then that this tells me that most built in Phono pre-amps leave something to be desired.

Can anybody recommend a relativity inexpensive phono preamp that can put out as much as the average CD/DVD output?

You wrote that the level of the CD player is lower than the turntable- how does that make phono preamps inadequate? Unless the phono preamp has a level control that can allow for precisely reaching a specific level, it's just hitting a happy medium.