dvd playing on bluray player question...

[roleydre]

Every time i play a dvd in my lg bluray player or my ps3,i cant get the dvd to run at 24hz,it defaults to 60 hz everytime no matter wut the player is set on,do i need a regular dvd player to get it to run at 24hz or can dvds not do that,and could it be my tv also?....comment if you like...

 

[j_garcia]

Visually I don't think it will make any difference. There is a setting on the PS3 for "best upscaling" or something like that, that makes DVDs look pretty darn good (though it may be at 60FPS), so beyond that, I don't think there's an urgent benefit to going for 24FPS.

What display are you using? It is entirely possible that display is not capable of 24FPS, since not many are.

*edit, I looked it up and apparently it WILL make a difference, but only if you have a 24FPS capable display.

 

[roleydre]

I have an lg 47",and wen i play blurays it runs at 24fps,but dvds i cant get to do it,and the tv doesnot have option to change it to one or the other,but the blu players do,i set it to 24 on the player and i hit info on tv remote,and it sayd 1080p/60 for dvd and 1080p/24 for bluray,thanks for reply...

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have an lg 47",and wen i play blurays it runs at 24fps,but dvds i cant get to do it,and the tv doesnot have option to change it to one or the other,but the blu players do,i set it to 24 on the player and i hit info on tv remote,and it sayd 1080p/60 for dvd and 1080p/24 for bluray,thanks for reply...

I don't think DVDs will play at 24 frames as it is recorded in 480i. BD is recorded in 1080p/24 if the original was in 24 frames.

 

[j_garcia]

I don't think DVDs will play at 24 frames as it is recorded in 480i. BD is recorded in 1080p/24 if the original was in 24 frames.

That's what I initially thought too, but seems like it is a bit more complicated than that, and DVDs are 24P:

24p on DVD

DVDs, however, are capable of storing the native 24p frames. Every Hollywood movie is laid to disc as a 24p (actually 23.976p – see below) stream. With a progressive-scan DVD player and a progressive display, such as an HDTV, only the progressive frames are displayed and there is no conversion to an interlaced format – eliminating the appearance of any interlace or de-interlacing artifacts. When displayed on a standard NTSC TV (which only displays 60i) the DVD player will add 3:2 pulldown to the signal.

In traditional television broadcast and VHS, the video stream has 3:2 pulldown added. This material cannot be displayed progressively without the resolution loss of de-interlacing, unless the de-interlacer has accurate cadence detection.

BUT, with respect to the PS3, I found this info also, so perhaps it is the PS3 that doesn't do it, or at least not correctly:

...the PS3 only outputs 24p from 24p native sources - i.e. BD releases.

I've not heard of it de-interlacing 60i 3:2 material containing 24p material to 1080/24p native. This would be much more of a challenge - especially as you'd have to cope with 60i native, cadence break, reverse cadence etc. material I guess - which isn't an issue with BD where you know that a track will be 24p because it is encoded as such, whereas the only way of knowing SD DVDs are 24p is by detecting the cadence.

 

[roleydre]

Thanx guys,im gonna try and get an upscaling dvd player with hdmi out and see if i can get the tv to run it at 24fps,thanx again for your replys i appreciate it...

 

[mtrycrafts]

That's what I initially thought too, but seems like it is a bit more complicated than that, and DVDs are 24P:



BUT, with respect to the PS3, I found this info also, so perhaps it is the PS3 that doesn't do it, or at least not correctly:

How do you read this then, under frame size and frame rate?
DVD-Video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read it as 29.97 interlaced mpeg 2.

 

[jostenmeat]

Every time i play a dvd in my lg bluray player or my ps3,i cant get the dvd to run at 24hz,it defaults to 60 hz everytime no matter wut the player is set on,do i need a regular dvd player to get it to run at 24hz or can dvds not do that,and could it be my tv also?....comment if you like...

If the DVD player can successfully output 24p, and your TV shows it, then obviously it's not the TV.

However I have a very, very, very hard time that there is a modern bluray player that can't output 24p. That would be just downright silly.

So I don't know what's going on. You should always* list all of the components in question, the model #s, and even more helpful to the helpers is to attach manual PDFs.

It's film based stuff that is 24 fps, both DVD and BD. TV/video stuff is usually 60 fps, AFAIK.

1080i/60 can look pretty damn good for sure, it's just with motion panning or motion that it can look bad IMO. In my limited experiences, it's easiest to see with rolling credits, outside of the fast wild cat running down a mountainside in a nature doc, or something like that (TV/video with motion).

 

[roleydre]

Sry bout that,im on my fone so i cant put on here,the manuals,but the blu player is an LG-BD550. The tv is an lg 47LH90,and i have all my hdmis hooked up to my strdh800 then out to tv...i always forget my model numbers on stuff i kno it makes it easier for you guys to help,thanks for the reply...

 

[mtrycrafts]

If the DVD player can successfully output 24p, and your TV shows it, then obviously it's not the TV.

However I have a very, very, very hard time that there is a modern bluray player that can't output 24p. That would be just downright silly.

So I don't know what's going on. You should always* list all of the components in question, the model #s, and even more helpful to the helpers is to attach manual PDFs.

It's film based stuff that is 24 fps, both DVD and BD. TV/video stuff is usually 60 fps, AFAIK.

1080i/60 can look pretty damn good for sure, it's just with motion panning or motion that it can look bad IMO. In my limited experiences, it's easiest to see with rolling credits, outside of the fast wild cat running down a mountainside in a nature doc, or something like that (TV/video with motion).

You need to explain to me then why the standard on a DVD is mpeg 2 and 29.97 interlaced frame rate:
DVD-Video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure, BD playes may reconvert it to 24 frames but that is not what is on the DVD disc.

 

[jostenmeat]

You need to explain to me then why the standard on a DVD is mpeg 2 and 29.97 interlaced frame rate:
DVD-Video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure, BD playes may reconvert it to 24 frames but that is not what is on the DVD disc.

I think you are mixing up DVD-Video with "all DVDs". Video at 29.97 fps or say 30 for short, is interlaced into alternating subfields, for 60i (I shouldn't have said "fps" previously). Whenever I put on a BD recorded at 60i, and I hit "info", it shows up as BD-Video. The "video" never shows up if it's 24p.

I'm certainly no expert, but maybe if you run some searches such as NTSC Video vs NTSC Film or NTSC movie, you might find some different info.

As far as I understood it, the FILM DVDs were recorded at 24 fps, and then the actual DVD players telecined it, aka 3:2 pulldown.

But, maybe you're right? Someone else will know.

BMX, where are you?

 

[jostenmeat]

Sry bout that,im on my fone so i cant put on here,the manuals,but the blu player is an LG-BD550. The tv is an lg 47LH90,and i have all my hdmis hooked up to my strdh800 then out to tv...i always forget my model numbers on stuff i kno it makes it easier for you guys to help,thanks for the reply...

Player manual, pg 26, set to "24hz". It seems to say you can only select that once the setting for 1080p resolution has already been chosen.

Alright looking up TV . . .

Looks like there is setting for "Real Cinema" to allow acceptance of 24p.

There is a very outside chance that you might have to enable 24p EVERY time you fire up the player, if it's like some other poorly designed units of the past, but don't quote me on that one. Worth testing I guess.

Hm, check out page 73 or thereabouts: "Expert Picture Control", then select "Real Cinema".

Aha, this is for mtrycrafts: page 74 it says "Real Cinema: DVD and Blu-ray movies are recorded in 24 frames per second (fps) . . ."

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think you are mixing up DVD-Video with "all DVDs". Video at 29.97 fps or say 30 for short, is interlaced into alternating subfields, for 60i (I shouldn't have said "fps" previously). Whenever I put on a BD recorded at 60i, and I hit "info", it shows up as BD-Video. The "video" never shows up if it's 24p.

I'm certainly no expert, but maybe if you run some searches such as NTSC Video vs NTSC Film or NTSC movie, you might find some different info.

As far as I understood it, the FILM DVDs were recorded at 24 fps, and then the actual DVD players telecined it, aka 3:2 pulldown.

But, maybe you're right? Someone else will know.

BMX, where are you?

This is what it also said at wiki:
Commercial DVD movies are encoded using a combination of MPEG-2 compressed video and audio of varying formats...



The following formats are allowed for MPEG-2 video[7][better source needed]:
At 25 frames per second, interlaced (commonly used in regions with 50 Hz image scanning frequency):
720 × 576 pixels (same resolution as D-1)
704 × 576 pixels
352 × 576 pixels (same as the China Video Disc standard)
352 x 288 pixels
At 29.97 frames per second, interlaced (commonly used in regions with 60 Hz image scanning frequency):
720 × 480 pixels (same resolution as D-1)
704 × 480 pixels
352 × 480 pixels (same as the China Video Disc standard)
352 x 240 pixels

So, movies are encoded with Mpeg2. Above it specifies the Mpeg 2 criteria. I don't see any 24 frames mentioned.
And, if a BD player is set to output 1080p/24, it will upsample the DVD to that hence querying the TV will not show what is on the DVD, only what the player is outputting.

 

[mtrycrafts]

..

Aha, this is for mtrycrafts: page 74 it says "Real Cinema: DVD and Blu-ray movies are recorded in 24 frames per second (fps) . . ."

That is what the player will output. But, I have been known to be wrong, from time to time.

 

[mtrycrafts]

More info

From the home page here on video processing in DVD players:
Video Processing in DVD Players, Receivers and Displays — Reviews and News from Audioholics


Deinterlacing - This is the process of converting an interlaced signal (like that found on a DVD or in many cableTV signals) to progressive scan demanded by most HDTVs and EDTVs. The tricky part is that DVD sources are stored at 24 frames per second and video plays back primarily at ~30 frames per second. To do the conversion, video processors must correctly convert by using "pull down" technology to interleave (combine) fields (every other line of a frame of picture) and create an image that is smooth and error-free.

 

[roleydre]

Thanks jostenmeats,i found my blu player manual,but i dont have my tv manual,thx for that info,i tryed what was said and my lg tv still says its running at 60fps...

 

[mtrycrafts]

another source

I think you are mixing up DVD-Video with "all DVDs". Video at 29.97 fps or say 30 for short, is interlaced into alternating subfields, for 60i (I shouldn't have said "fps" previously). Whenever I put on a BD recorded at 60i, and I hit "info", it shows up as BD-Video. The "video" never shows up if it's 24p.

I'm certainly no expert, but maybe if you run some searches such as NTSC Video vs NTSC Film or NTSC movie, you might find some different info.

As far as I understood it, the FILM DVDs were recorded at 24 fps, and then the actual DVD players telecined it, aka 3:2 pulldown.

But, maybe you're right? Someone else will know.

BMX, where are you?

I am considering updating my BD player and reading the Oppo 103 manual on line. On page 22 it shows what is what for 'source direct' medial. DVD is listed as 480i.

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks jostenmeats,i found my blu player manual,but i dont have my tv manual,thx for that info,i tryed what was said and my lg tv still says its running at 60fps...

Look, I can't really spend the time to sleuth this out with you, no offense, it's just that it gets tricky, and there are variables too. First of all, and I really mean firstly here, you need to know if the DVD itself is 24 fps. Most film DVDs are, but apparently not all! Then not all TV-DVDs are 60, but a few might be 24!

The greatest likelihood, regardless of the disc itself, is that your player cannot output 24p DVDs as such, and will always follow the "flags" to apply 2:3 pulldown (I pretty much always call it 3:2 like many do, but 2:3 is probably the more accurate-technical term, ok whatever . . .)

Now, you can try contacting LG directly I suppose, see what they say.

I almost might advise asking in an owner's thread for your player. Right? I mean, who better to ask than a whole bunch of AV geeks that happen to own the same player? Look around at AVS, there's gotta be an owner's thread there.

I'm guessing the player can't do it. You never know I guess, maybe you could have better chances with some FW update of the past, and if you've never updated, that shouldn't hurt to do. Still, I have my doubts. (FWIW, my brother's Sony bdp of old couldn't even *read* a DVD, at all, nada, until its first FW.)

Lastly, if you sit pretty far away, the effect of motion judder simply isn't as offensive IMO. This could be a big deal for a projector owner for instance, but for a 47" at typical living room distance, to really nitpick over 480 sources of old, I dunno.

Oh, I read someone say that a more modern DVD would probably have better chances of being recorded correctly (I guess there's a lot to it), than an older one, who knows how true that is, but anyway . . .

Good luck to you sir. Let us know if you figure anything out.

p.s. the manual was easy to find, just google model # with the word "manual" and it's one of the first results, if not first. It's a PDF from mftr site, just DL/open, print it out.

 

[jostenmeat]

I am considering updating my BD player and reading the Oppo 103 manual on line. On page 22 it shows what is what for 'source direct' medial. DVD is listed as 480i.

-crafts, I've never even seen an Oppo BDP in person, so I'm not one who is familiar, I didn't grab the manual either, but if the Oppo 93 could playback 24p DVDs as 24p, I must imagine the 103 should be able to as well. At least by some FW iteration, eventually.

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/bdp9x-firmware-71-0723B.aspx

1. Added "DVD 24p Conversion". This feature restores the original 24 film frames from DVD-Video and outputs it as 1080p/24Hz. To enable this feature, enter the Video Setup in the Setup Menu, set the "1080p24 Output" to be "Auto" or "On", and set the "DVD 24p Conversion" to be "On". Note: the actual DVD 24Hz conversion quality can be affected by the display’s processing and video source, especially for a non-3:2 pulldown cadence source.

 

[roleydre]

thanks,i really had tried everything i could to get it to work before i asked the question,i was really just trying to figure out why it wouldnt work,the manual that came with the tv was on a disc and i couldnt load it to my computer,i had seen and been through most of the options on the tv,just didnt know what some of them meant,thx to you i know what one of them is now,sry if i was misleading you into thinkin i was relying on you for info,now im glad you did,and thx for the info you gave...

im thinking since the lg player and tv link up when you watch something on it ,that since its a blu player it wont play anything at 24 but blu rays,thats just what im thinking,and i asked my buddy to play a dvd on his blu player and he couldnt get it to run at 24hz either....but thanks for your time and info...