Dual sub - front and back - but what phase?

[johnp98]

I have two subwoofer coming from a single output from my AVR. One is at the front of the room and midline and ~6ft away and the other is at the back of the room midline and only ~2ft away. Unfortunately they can not be a symmetric distance away.

I have a marantz 7003 so can run audyssey on them but that only takes the average of the distances does it not?

My question is should I try and set the phase of the two subs? If so which one?

Unfortunately I do not have any good mics to run REW or other measuring techniques but
My impressing is setting the phase is in essence changing the distance... So as a way to make the changes more specific / precise could I run audyssey with only one sub playing and record the distance and then fiddle with the other sub and re run audyssey with only that sub until it gets close to that other distance (and then do the official final run with both of them now both connect)? Does that seem reasonable?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have two subwoofer coming from a single output from my AVR. One is at the front of the room and midline and ~6ft away and the other is at the back of the room midline and only ~2ft away. Unfortunately they can not be a symmetric distance away.

I have a marantz 7003 so can run audyssey on them but that only takes the average of the distances does it not?

My question is should I try and set the phase of the two subs? If so which one?

Unfortunately I do not have any good mics to run REW or other measuring techniques but
My impressing is setting the phase is in essence changing the distance... So as a way to make the changes more specific / precise could I run audyssey with only one sub playing and record the distance and then fiddle with the other sub and re run audyssey with only that sub until it gets close to that other distance (and then do the official final run with both of them now both connect)? Does that seem reasonable?

I would try to set the phase and then
Run audyssey. Do you have a helper? You can try a few things. Run the internal test tone and sit in the LP with an spl meter(you said no equipment so not sure if you have one. Spl meter Apps are not good enough but better than ear). Adjust the phase of the rear sub until you get the most output on the meter. You might want to double check each subs spl individually again after that. Then run audyssey. Even xt32 with subeq eq’s the subs as one. So if you can get the phase and spl matched, just run audyssey and it will think you have one.
Or you can do like you said and set up the first sub and add the second manually. Problem is you’ll only have audyssey EQing one of them and you might cause more issues than you solve. Sorry for the patchwork post, I’m multitasking. Something I’m not very good at. Lol.

There’s a similar way to make sure the XO region is smooth too by using a test tone that is the same as the XO point. 80hz for example.

 

[Jamesrxx951]

I have a similar setup but with 4 subs. Audyssey wouldn't work for me when had 2 subs. Running REW showed a lot of areas that needed fixed. The bass was boomy and my wife didn't like it, I didn't either. So I bought a MiniDSP and 2 more subs. I already had a mic. $80.00 on amazon. I only use one output for sub with the minidsp. But I have found with all 4 subs they all require some delay at the listening seat. After setup I have way more bass output but pretty flat across the board. I also found having the mains hooked up as part of the sweep helped with integration. But my wife is much happier with the bass. Even though it is louder. At least in my marantz receiver audyessey does a terrible job with bass management. It pulls a ton of bass out. So I have to go and set my mains and surrounds to small and crossover at 80hz. That makes a huge difference. But bass is still rolled off after 25hz. To get that lower range I have to turn audyessey off.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have a similar setup but with 4 subs. Audyssey wouldn't work for me when had 2 subs. Running REW showed a lot of areas that needed fixed. The bass was boomy and my wife didn't like it, I didn't either. So I bought a MiniDSP and 2 more subs. I already had a mic. $80.00 on amazon. I only use one output for sub with the minidsp. But I have found with all 4 subs they all require some delay at the listening seat. After setup I have way more bass output but pretty flat across the board. I also found having the mains hooked up as part of the sweep helped with integration. But my wife is much happier with the bass. Even though it is louder. At least in my marantz receiver audyessey does a terrible job with bass management. It pulls a ton of bass out. So I have to go and set my mains and surrounds to small and crossover at 80hz. That makes a huge difference. But bass is still rolled off after 25hz. To get that lower range I have to turn audyessey off.

What subwoofer you using? I’m curious about this. It seems like audyssey found f3 to be around 25hz? Could be room induced or placement too, but it’s interesting. I use audyssey and rew/minidsp with 3 subs and Marantz 6012 and I’m pretty flat to 14hz. Ime audyssey does pretty good. It’s definitely not perfect though. I used to use a behringer feedback destroyer for EQ but the minidsp is much more granular, and easier to use.

 

[Jamesrxx951]

What subwoofer you using? I’m curious about this. It seems like audyssey found f3 to be around 25hz? Could be room induced or placement too, but it’s interesting. I use audyssey and rew/minidsp with 3 subs and Marantz 6012 and I’m pretty flat to 14hz. Ime audyssey does pretty good. It’s definitely not perfect though. I used to use a behringer feedback destroyer for EQ but the minidsp is much more granular, and easier to use.

I am using 2 SVS PB2000'2 up front and 2 HSU VTX2's in the back. If I turn off EQ I have no issues below 20 Hz. I made my sweeps from 15hz -200 in REW. If I perform a sweep with EQ on, it's not much below 25HZ. Marantz 6013 receiver.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am using 2 SVS PB2000'2 up front and 2 HSU VTX2's in the back. If I turn off EQ I have no issues below 20 Hz. I made my sweeps from 15hz -200 in REW. If I perform a sweep with EQ on, it's not much below 25HZ. Marantz 6013 receiver.

So you setup your subs with minidsp/rew then ran Audyssey? Audyssey set your mains not to use bass managements (which isn't Audyssey, that's the avr manufacturer that does that) and you then changed to use bass management and set xover of 80hz. Then toggling between Audyssey on and off you find little under 25hz in measuring when on, and improved low end with it off? I also find that odd but want to make sure I understand your steps....

 

[Jamesrxx951]

So you setup your subs with minidsp/rew then ran Audyssey? Audyssey set your mains not to use bass managements (which isn't Audyssey, that's the avr manufacturer that does that) and you then changed to use bass management and set xover of 80hz. Then toggling between Audyssey on and off you find little under 25hz in measuring when on, and improved low end with it off? I also find that odd but want to make sure I understand your steps....

To match my subs all eq is off. I first set my crossover in the reciever to 250 hz and disconnect the mains. Matched all subs and then turned on the mains and dropped the crossover to 80. I found that when I did that it affected the 80hz area. So I kept 80hz for mains and eq off. Reran all my measurements and adjusted the subs in the mini dsp. Once the mains and subs looked good, I ran audyessey. I had to turn the volume down in the dsp to get audysessey to run the test. It don't like loud subs at all. Ran it. It turns my mains and surrounds to large. Fronts full bandwidth and surrounds at 60hz. Subs barely work like that. I did contact marantz and they confirmed I need to adjust in manual settings. So everything is set at 80 and my 4 atmos speakers at 90hz. When I run REW it drops 25 and below pretty hard. Turn off audysessey and solid above 16 hz again. I have the marantz remote app in my tablet and when I play bass heavy music I still get better punch with it off. Sound is better above subs with it on. I would love to know how to keep both punch and better sound with audysessey.

 

[lovinthehd]

To match my subs all eq is off. I first set my crossover in the reciever to 250 hz and disconnect the mains. Matched all subs and then turned on the mains and dropped the crossover to 80. I found that when I did that it affected the 80hz area. So I kept 80hz for mains and eq off. Reran all my measurements and adjusted the subs in the mini dsp. Once the mains and subs looked good, I ran audyessey. I had to turn the volume down in the dsp to get audysessey to run the test. It don't like loud subs at all. Ran it. It turns my mains and surrounds to large. Fronts full bandwidth and surrounds at 60hz. Subs barely work like that. I did contact marantz and they confirmed I need to adjust in manual settings. So everything is set at 80 and my 4 atmos speakers at 90hz. When I run REW it drops 25 and below pretty hard. Turn off audysessey and solid above 16 hz again. I have the marantz remote app in my tablet and when I play bass heavy music I still get better punch with it off. Sound is better above subs with it on. I would love to know how to keep both punch and better sound with audysessey.

I wonder if its the app, sounds like issues maybe @Pogre can shed some light on? Yes with no bass management when set to large/not to use bass management, the sub would have less output, that's why the Marantz setting it to not use bass management should immediately be changed via manual settings after running Audyssey (and Audyssey wouldn't have just recommended when indicating use of a sub to always set to small/use bass management and a starting xover of 80hz). How many mic positions are you measuring via REW? Audyssey/avr when asking for sub level is just trying to set a level that will match with the mains, but many do like to bump up the sub trim level a few dBs after running Audyssey, too....

 

[Pogre]

I'm a little confused as to what's happening? I ran Audyssey then tweaked with REW and got my best results that way. Audyssey does great with distances and levels but has a tough time taming my in room fr. It trimmed my 63 hz frequency band by 10 decibels to make up for a big peak a little bit lower in the band, which did make a flatter overall response but it really had a negative effect on my mid bass.

That's where the Mini comes in for me. I use it to dial it in the rest of the way as flat as I can and have had some decent results.