Dual sealed subs using RL-s12's?

[KEW]

No, that room is not too large. The speakers will outright break your drywall if you want to do that.

I think that actually might have a pretty high WAF!
She'd love telling the story of how I was destroying the house with my audio antics!

Again, if 25Hz or so response is sufficient, the P7000S is really all you need. You still need to use a Behringer DCX2496 or comparable device, of course.
Any other, larger amp, you will likely have to do the fan swap. A Behringer EP2500 per speaker is ideal bridged. About 2000 clean watts per driver. But you have to do the fan mods, and don't forget you need a 20 AMP 120V circuit for EACH of the EP2500 amplifiers if you actually want a chance to get anywhere near their actual power capability in actual use. The P7000S is sufficient if you are happy with flat 25Hz response - and the P7000S is also extremely energy efficient.
-Chris

P7000S it is!

 

[KEW]

If you don't want to have to use so much power, and not have to use a processor to re-shape the response, then I will recommend building small ported cabinets using either the JL 10W7 or JL 8W7 drivers. While the W7 is not the equal of the TC LMS, the W7 is still one of the best drivers available, next to TC Sounds drivers. Do not mistake these for small SPL or low SQ. They are designed to optimize both. The 8", in the real world, bests most high quality 12" conventional subwoofers. The 10w7 will work superbly in the pre-fabbed 3 cubic foot PE cabinet, coupled with 3 x 3" diameter vents. Note: Do NOT dare attempt to use less port area - even 3 x 3" ports is not ideal. This 10" driver will equal most high quality conventional 15" subwoofers. The 8" operates ideally with about 450-500 watts RMS, and the 10" with about 650-750 watts RMS each.
-Chris

Before I totally commit to the RL-s12, I should ask after the JL options above.
1) How big would these small ported cabinets be?
2) I have been thinking "sealed" primarily because my not-so-expensive 30 year old acoustic suspension speakers have tighter mid-bass than most of the modern ported speakers I have heard. I also thought a ported sub required a much larger cabinet. Am I mistaken?
3) Say if I went with an 8W7, driver in a small ported cabinet, what audible difference might I hear, given I don't need too loud or too low?

Thanks!

 

[lsiberian]

Before I totally commit to the RL-s12, I should ask after the JL options above.
1) How big would these small ported cabinets be?
2) I have been thinking "sealed" primarily because my not-so-expensive 30 year old acoustic suspension speakers have tighter mid-bass than most of the modern ported speakers I have heard. I also thought a ported sub required a much larger cabinet. Am I mistaken?
3) Say if I went with an 8W7, driver in a small ported cabinet, what audible difference might I hear, given I don't need too loud or too low?

Thanks!

The 8w7 is the best small sub on the market atm. It's ideal for making dual subs as stands for the big ones.

Still the SQ of an LMS sealed will best it. The driver is so clean that it can be over-driven before the distortion becomes noticeable.

 

[TLS Guy]

Before I totally commit to the RL-s12, I should ask after the JL options above.
1) How big would these small ported cabinets be?
2) I have been thinking "sealed" primarily because my not-so-expensive 30 year old acoustic suspension speakers have tighter mid-bass than most of the modern ported speakers I have heard. I also thought a ported sub required a much larger cabinet. Am I mistaken?
3) Say if I went with an 8W7, driver in a small ported cabinet, what audible difference might I hear, given I don't need too loud or too low?

Thanks!

I think that driver would be fine. You would not have to power it like a jet plain and equalize the piss out of it.

Here are the details.

You will get 110 db out of it, which will be plenty given your specification. F3 is 23 Hz which is good performance.

 

[WmAx]

Before I totally commit to the RL-s12, I should ask after the JL options above.
1) How big would these small ported cabinets be?
2) I have been thinking "sealed" primarily because my not-so-expensive 30 year old acoustic suspension speakers have tighter mid-bass than most of the modern ported speakers I have heard. I also thought a ported sub required a much larger cabinet. Am I mistaken?
3) Say if I went with an 8W7, driver in a small ported cabinet, what audible difference might I hear, given I don't need too loud or too low?

Thanks!

Because of the large vents needed for the 8W7, when you combine the actual net volume plus vent area, the cabinet would be roughly the same size, externally, as the sealed RL-S 12" cabinet.

Do not mistake the 8" W7 as a compromise on output or extension. It will best most conventional 12" high quality drivers, despite just being an '8'.

As for differences, well, a more complex cabinet and less output potential compared to the 12" LMS drivers. Also, you can use a smaller amplifier for the JL 8W7 drivers as compared to what you need for the 12" LMS drivers.

-Chris

 

[KEW]

Thanks TLS Guy for the charts. They look pretty amazing not to have any EQ and I like the idea of obtaining performance without having to go to great lengths (power and EQ-wise) to reach a flat FR.

However, I got distracted from the bottom line.
The sealed cabinet offering from PE is realistically what allows me to even consider DIY.
I can cut the circles and mount the interconnects and assemble the subs in 2-4 afternoons.
Right now, life is simply too crowded (both shop space and schedule) to take on building two ported cabinets.

 

[KEW]

The boring details

Okay:
The big stuff is established:
2 ea. 2 cu. ft. cabinets from Parts Express
2 ea. RL-s12 from Sound Splinter
1 ea. P7000S from zzouunds
1 ea. DCX2496 from Amazon

Can anyone give me some recommendations on the details:

Speaker terminals for banana plugs - For their recessed terminals, PE doesn't indicate what material the cups are made from. I suspect they are plastic and that seems like it might be a weak point for a powerful sealed sub. Does anyone know of a sturdy metal cup. Am I being too picky? Is it better to just surface mount the terminals?

Sealing - Do the speakers and speaker terminal cups come with gaskets? Is it best to use some type of caulk type sealant? What about the seams of the cabinet?

Connection - What do I need for the RL-s12 terminals? Are these spade lugs? Obviously this needs to be a sound connection. What about on the other end of the wire at the inside end of the speaker terminals? What is recommended?

What am I forgetting? - There is always that little detail that delays assembly. Is there something I've left out?

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks TLS Guy for the charts. They look pretty amazing not to have any EQ and I like the idea of obtaining performance without having to go to great lengths (power and EQ-wise) to reach a flat FR.

However, I got distracted from the bottom line.
The sealed cabinet offering from PE is realistically what allows me to even consider DIY.
I can cut the circles and mount the interconnects and assemble the subs in 2-4 afternoons.
Right now, life is simply too crowded (both shop space and schedule) to take on building two ported cabinets.

If you can cut circles consider building a sonosub. It seems many folks enjoy the results. I think it may be the simplest to build. If all goes well it should only require a drill, a router(with jasper jig and spiral cutting bit) and some clamps. I plan to do a trial run on my JL Audio 8w6's before tackling the TC Sounds driver. I've seen insane in room FR's from the sonosub RL-s12 drivers.

 

[Warpdrv]

weather stripping works pretty good to seal the driver to the cab.
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Hardware-Fasteners-Weather-Stripping/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xkkZard7/R-100166566/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

May I suggest that you use Speakon connectors, they are fantastic and solid twist and lock connectors of the utmost quality. I use those for all 4 of my subs, and would not go back to the post connector personally... they can vibrate loose, something that can not happen with speakons. All speakon connections can handle up to 10ga wire, I have only needed 12 for my purposes.


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=092-053

2 of those, 1 for each box mounted and screwed to the box.

4 of these - 2 for each of the box connections, 2 for the back of the amp. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=092-190

You can see where they mount on the back of the amps.
One for each channel.

What is your reciever? XLR out ?, or your going to need an RCA to XLR adapter, and 2 more XLR cables from DCX to the Yamaha Amp, 1 for each channel. MonoPrice - good quality cables, I'm happy with mine...

 

[KEW]

lsiberian,
The sonotube does look like an easy build, but the WAF would not fly. Basically, she wants things unobtrusive. I have an idea to make nice looking end tables out of the PE boxes without too much trouble. I am wondering how much they will vibrate. But thanks for pointing out that option.


Warpdrv,
Thanks,
That is exactly the kind of stuff I need!

I found this variation of the Speakon connector which I think will work better for keeping the speaker sealed (more screws and larger overlap for seal):

About how much clearance do I need for the speakon connector proud of the sub box (I'm thinking of coming up through the floor and having the connection underneath the sub - need to know how long the legs should be, or if it is feasible).

What type of cable do I need from monoprice. Standard speaker cable? or something special? The exploded view doesn't show how the connection works.

Thanks!

 

[Warpdrv]

those 4 screw connectors will work just fine.
I think you would need about at least 3" for the connector, but you can find the right angle version I have seen. Look around. That will save you some on the clearance.

 

[KEW]

those 4 screw connectors will work just fine.
I think you would need about at least 3" for the connector, but you can find the right angle version I have seen. Look around. That will save you some on the clearance.

Got it!
Thanks!

 

[KEW]

 

[WmAx]

State of the art.

That unit weighs under 30lbs (thanks to a high quality switch mode power supply) and outputs nearly 1000 x 2, 20Hz-20,000Hz, both channels simultaneous.

-Chris

 

[KEW]

I was surprised that it didn't have a toroidal transformer! I thought they were the hot thing??
Live and learn!

 

[KEW]

I've got the cabinets!
The specs and drawing below are what I've found for dimensions.

Mounting Depth: 21.2 cm
Total Depth: 23.3 cm
Outside Diameter: 32.3 cm
Weight: 44 lbs
Magnet Width: 18.8 cm
Mounting Cutout: 28.2 cm
Displacement: 0.19 cu ft

It looks like the grill will not really work without modification. It is about .75" proud of the baffle and the mounting flange appears to be .80" tall, so surface mounting the flange would give interference even before considering the extension of the driver.
The front baffle is 1" thick, so I am thinking of laminating a 3/4" thick piece of ply or mdf to it as reinforcement, then sinking the flange 0.8" into the baffle so it is flush on the top. This would allow 0.75 inches of extension before the driver contacted the grill. The grill is just fabric and I hope it wouldn't cause damage to the surround. Of course for music, at low-medium levels, I would be surprised if the driver ever reached the 0.75" stroke.

Does my reasoning and plan sound right?

I will wait until I can measure the drivers before I make any cuts. I'm not sure if the 0.8" includes the surround or not:

One last question, does a sealed speaker need to be sealed such that a pressure difference could be maintained for days?

Thanks!

 

[Warpdrv]

I'd love to see pics of the boxes as well when you get a chance...

I would personally add a 3/4" ply to the inside of the baffle, and use that as the driver mount, and cut the hole on the baffle the diameter of the driver plus gasket, so it mounts to the 3/4" ply.

The Gasket is roughly 3/4" thick, so the driver will be a touch recessed in the front baffle, with weather stripping behind it it should be pretty flush. Not sure if the surround will hit the grill or not at that point, they do have pretty good excursion, but I doubt you will be pushing things that far.

Awesome looking driver... You will love them...

 

[KEW]

 

[KEW]

 

[KEW]

I'd love to see pics of the boxes as well when you get a chance...

Here are the feet. Front baffle (sitting on top) is rabbeted to nest into front of box.

It is about 8-7/8" from the front edge to the brace which is about perfect for the RL-s12. I'll leave a little mdf under the flange to make sure the driver doesn't contact the brace.

All interior joints have a bead of glue/sealant. It is hard, not pliable. Perhaps epoxy.

Baffles and hardware to fasten baffles (4 screws for front and 8 for rear. T-nuts pressed into mdf for bolts to engage.

Baffles - outside up.

I don't think I'll get the chance to start on this until after the New Year.