Dual Center Speakers

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the link; it made it a lot easier to find

It is on the first page of this thread.

 

[Midcow2]

no perpertual motion - law of conservation of energy

Well you have two bites at the cherry so to speak. 3db for two sound sources and if the speakers are VERY close together and playing the same program, another 3db from driver gain. That is close to the OPs observation. He recorded 8 db, because of placement issues that would be possible.

Just to clear things up adding two or especially three speakers to the same connection can be harmful to your Amplifier.

For example if you have two 8 ohm speakers you are in effect creating a four ohm load. While the setting hasn't changed on your AVR you have significantly loaded your AVR. Power = V^2/R ( if inductive and capacitivie phase shift is disgarded for simplistic illustrative purposes). Therefore changing from 8 ohms to effective 4 ohms at the same voltage in effect doubles you power. This is even more dramatic if you connect three speakers because then your effective load is only 2.67 Ohmns.

Be very careful connectting mutliple speakers to the same channel ! You may end up literally with a smoking how connection! You dB increase in coming from an increased load ( i.e. lower) on the AVR. You cannot increase energy! It has to come from somewhere.

Now I need to go back and reread the start of this thread which I apparently missed because I couldn't find a link on "Having the fronts and center produce a seamless sound is crucial. The rears and center backs less so. The problem of blending center and fronts has been addressed previously and recently." Oh Well!!

see yah

 

[GlocksRock]

I'm sure he used a splitter and ran it off different channels from his amp, after all at that time he was using 2 emotiva amps, and probably had both speakers bi amped.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm sure he used a splitter and ran it off different channels from his amp, after all at that time he was using 2 emotiva amps, and probably had both speakers bi amped.

Absolutely correcto.

My preamp has 2 L+R outputs. The Center channel is on the Left channel of the preamp. To bi-amp each Center speaker, I had to use two Outlaw Y-Cable. That gave me 4 exact Center Channel signals = 4 RCA cables. Each RCA cable was fed into 1 separate amp = 4 amps.

So I was using 4 amps to power the 2 center speakers.

Now I have taken the advice and gotten rid the the 2nd center speaker and sold the 2nd Emo amp. In addition, I have stopped bi-amping altogether. Now I am just using 1 amp for each speaker = 5 amps for 5.1 HT.

I can't prove it, but it seems to me that single-amping actually produced BETTER SOUND than bi-amping!

So I think TLS Guy was right about bi-amping causing ERROR.

Like they say, if it's not broke, don't fix it, right?

Why bi-amp and potentially cause distortion and error?

Actually all this bi-amping and using 2 center speakers is a total contradiction to my system philosophy, which is SIMPLICITY.

My audio system is BARE BONES - pure analog without a single digital connection. It has absolutely no features whatsoever - no tuners, no phono, no EQ - absolutely nothing. So for me to go from simplicity to all this bi-amping and 2 center speakers is ironic, such as life.

 

[Penny]

So I was using 4 amps to power the 2 center speakers.

Four amps? Did you mean to say 4 seperate amp channels?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So I was using 4 amps to power the 2 center speakers.

Four amps? Did you mean to say 4 seperate amp channels?

The MPS-2 contains 7 mono-block amps, each has it's own power supply/toroidal transformer. The chassis just supplies the LED lights and the AC. So technically, there are 7 mono-block amps in the MPS-2.

If all the channels shared the power supply/toroidal transformer, I would consider that 4 separate amp channels.

 

[Midcow2]

Very Very nice system

Absolutely correcto.

My preamp has 2 L+R outputs. The Center channel is on the Left channel of the preamp. To bi-amp each Center speaker, I had to use two Outlaw Y-Cable. That gave me 4 exact Center Channel signals = 4 RCA cables. Each RCA cable was fed into 1 separate amp = 4 amps.

So I was using 4 amps to power the 2 center speakers.

Now I have taken the advice and gotten rid the the 2nd center speaker and sold the 2nd Emo amp. In addition, I have stopped bi-amping altogether. Now I am just using 1 amp for each speaker = 5 amps for 5.1 HT.

I can't prove it, but it seems to me that single-amping actually produced BETTER SOUND than bi-amping!

So I think TLS Guy was right about bi-amping causing ERROR.

Like they say, if it's not broke, don't fix it, right?

Why bi-amp and potentially cause distortion and error?

Actually all this bi-amping and using 2 center speakers is a total contradiction to my system philosophy, which is SIMPLICITY.

My audio system is BARE BONES - pure analog without a single digital connection. It has absolutely no features whatsoever - no tuners, no phono, no EQ - absolutely nothing. So for me to go from simplicity to all this bi-amping and 2 center speakers is ironic, such as life.

Wow sorry i ever doubted you AcuDefTechGuy !! You have an very,very nice system! My system sounds very good to me but yours is levels above mine even though I have some older Definitive Towers, I think they are 2002BP.

You are the true audiophile thanks for sharing your experiences and wisdom.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow sorry i ever doubted you AcuDefTechGuy !! You have an very,very nice system! My system sounds very good to me but yours is levels above mine even though I have some older Definitive Towers, I think they are 2002BP.

You are the true audiophile thanks for sharing your experiences and wisdom.

Gee, thanks. You are embarrassing me!

I love sharing my experiences and MISTAKES.

I don't know about the "WISDOM" part, though.

Before Seth, Greg, Mark, or Andrew have anything to say about that part....don't even go there.

I know the urge is there, but don't.

Take your fingers off the keyboard now and back away!

I'm just a humble little fish in this big audiophile pond.

 

[GlocksRock]

Just got the word my BP7001SC towers were just delivered... too bad I can't go home early today and start setting them up... hopefully the IPS-1 will have enough juice to push them good.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just got the word my BP7001SC towers were just delivered... too bad I can't go home early today and start setting them up... hopefully the IPS-1 will have enough juice to push them good.

I'm sure the internal 1,500 watts RMS amps of the BP7001SCs will do most of the work.

The tweeters will probably need like 1-10 watts at most, and the 6.5" midrange/upper bass drivers will probably need like 3-40 watts at most. So I'm sure the IPS 150 watts RMS amps will deliver more than enough juice.

 

[GlocksRock]

Do you really think the internal amps on the BP7001SCs are 1500 watts RMS? I don't see how the amp can make that much power with the electricity it's getting from the wall, wouldn't it trip the breaker?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you really think the internal amps on the BP7001SCs are 1500 watts RMS? I don't see how the amp can make that much power with the electricity it's getting from the wall, wouldn't it trip the breaker?

No. I don't think it will ever produce 1500 watts.

Heck, I don't think the IPS will ever HAVE TO produce 150 watts or MPS will ever HAVE TO produce 200 watts either.

And the Trinity will never produce 2000 watts.

 

[ParkerAudio]

After reading this thread I am thinking about doubling up all my speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After reading this thread I am thinking about doubling up all my speakers.

Well, did you see that $6 Million dollar system with something like 16 speakers? He had 3 center speakers and I think multiple speakers for each channel. That's where I got my dumb idea!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After reading this thread I am thinking about doubling up all my speakers.

Well, did you see that $6 Million dollar system with something like 16 speakers? He had 3 center speakers and I think multiple speakers for each channel. That's where I got my dumb idea!

Talk about some serious comb filtering issues!

 

[ParkerAudio]

Where can I see this system?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Where can I see this system?

http://gizmodo.com/353963/6-million-kipnis-home-theater-seats-3-might-be-worth-the-money