Downsizing thoughts ..........

Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
while not immediate the wife and I are contemplating the 'downsizing move' and with that my audio gear will be part of the equation. With Denon's new 110 anniversary toys they seem to have joined the ranks of Technics and Yammie with a nice looking integrated amp solution. Most here have far more first hand experience with Denon, Yamaha and Technics than I do, thoughts .......

 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
eliminate monoblock amps, line stage and a phono-pre.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Moving into one of them new-fangled mini homes where a few cubic feet make that big a difference? :) You downsizing the speakers/subs, too? I'm the opposite, I retired into a space large enough to play with all my accumulated toys.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
just in the thinking stages right now, my current 2 channel rig occupies a dedicated room (14'6" x 24'6") , if and when we move it's unlikely I'll have such. Regardless, I'd love comments on the integrated offerings from the aforementioned 'three' !
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

pessimistic optimist
Oh and go watch Gene's YouTube videos of the umboxing and test results. Good stuff.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Field Marshall
You didn't ask so this is a superfluous response and you can simply ignore it if you like.
@lovinthehd mentioned downsizing in to enough space to play with all your toys which I take to mean getting a bigger space. I love that idea. Rightsizing !

Here's the thing, we "downsized" a few years ago by moving from a fairly large space to one more modest (meaning smaller). We both absolutely HATED it. For different reasons mind you, but, in the end we both hated the restrictions and limitations and the doing without stuff.

All our kids are gone and yet we still loved our own space and what it let each of us do. So, unless the downsizing is driven by economics (and that sucks in its own way) one might think long and hard about downsizing and instead look at rightsizing. We are just two folks rumbling around in this wonderful home that's just a freakin' palace. But, it lets us both breath and both of us get space for using our own toys in our own way.

I know you didn't ask, but, being happy at home is a paramount life happiness issue.

On the original idea of the new Denon integrated amps: I took a long look at those today and was sorely tempted.
My only issue is I already own Denon equipment throughout the house and am pleased as punch with all of it. @PENG helped me pick them out and they are simply outstanding. I wouldn't gain anything with the new integrated amp except some cool factor. YMMV. Up to you. Great product to think about
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
just in the thinking stages right now, my current 2 channel rig occupies a dedicated room (14'6" x 24'6") , if and when we move it's unlikely I'll have such. Regardless, I'd love comments on the integrated offerings from the aforementioned 'three' !
Is downsizing really worth the cost of downsizing? Real estate commissions, closing costs, moving costs, getting the new house the way you want it... are you contemplating a change of city or state too?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
while not immediate the wife and I are contemplating the 'downsizing move' and with that my audio gear will be part of the equation. With Denon's new 110 anniversary toys they seem to have joined the ranks of Technics and Yammie with a nice looking integrated amp solution. Most here have far more first hand experience with Denon, Yamaha and Technics than I do, thoughts .......

The question is why are you downsizing?

If you are aging, then I think the biggest consideration is nursing home prevention. They are expensive, and not a good place to be unless you don't know you are there.
So the reasons we moved from the lake, were because the upkeep would get the better of me sooner rather than later.

We moved 220 miles closer to family.

We built a home largely to ADA specs. There are no steps in or out of the house, front or back. It is on grade. The master bedroom and master bath are fully to ADA specs, with hand rails, no door on the shower, with a wide opening and easily able to accommodate a shower chair. The bath tub is walk in. There is ample room in the kitchen and all living areas. The house is two story and there is a staircase, but also an elevator.

Bedrooms are reduced as we won't get multiple visitors, but enough bedrooms for the grandchildren to stay over. The larger bedroom doubles as a sewing/hobby room for my wife. She produced industrial numbers of masks for the family and especially the school system, literally hundreds.

She likes her own audio space and has the in wall system in the main living room. The AV theater was significantly enlarged over what we had previously for family and friends. The former one was too small. So this will be a bonus to be able to seat 9 and 10 at a push. Covid came along within 6 months of moving in, but as we emerge I expect that theater will continue to fill.

We have a family room that dubs as space with kitchenette for visitors. It has a nice audio system also, that the grandchildren use for gaming. I love this room also.

Compared to the lake home, I have a much reduced workshop in size. It still has a large two stage air compressor, welder drill press etc. so I don't have to pay though the nose for a lot of artisans. I kept almost all of my hand tools.

So yes, right sizing is the answer. Make sure you have your own spaces, and can continue your interests. If you make a move when older, I can't stress enough the nursing home avoidance either. I can tell you assisted living is also a penal sentence.

So plan ahead, and plan ahead. Well drawn up and executed plans are the key.

This all got a real test when my wife had a total foot reconstruction in March of last year, with complications and prolonged recovery. Our plans passed muster with flying colors. It made her care easy, and she was still able to enjoy the whole house to the full, during her entire recovery.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Back to the PMA-110 after watching Gene's video....a bit pricey but sure seems like a nice bit of kit! Nice solid amp section and good phono sectios (MM & MC). Good dacs. The price for the optical disc player is beyond my range of interest, I guess if you must have a matching series but Gene says he's got that coming up for review, too. Always curious about a Denon cartridge, never tried one but it generally gathered praise from what I've read.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
SQ will be the same among these Integrated amps. The biggest difference to me is the aesthetics. :D
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks for the moving responses gents, all good points and that's why we're in the thinking stage. While are existing house is relatively small (2100 sq ft) and my property modest (1.5 acres) reducing both is what we are thinking about. As for relocation, probably in the same area (family)
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
SQ will be the same among these Integrated amps. The biggest difference to me is the aesthetics. :D
I haven't looked closely, are all three amps of the same topology ? I'm thinking the Denon might be the least powerful ?

I've got to do a closer comparo ......
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I haven't looked closely, are all three amps of the same topology ? I'm thinking the Denon might be the least powerful ?

I've got to do a closer comparo ......
Which 3 are you considering, you have only listed one, the Denon PMA-A110 so far unless I missed a post for some reason.

Without knowing your output power requirements. My concerns with integrated amps are generally the following:

- More often than not they usually short change you on the DAC section, not that they would sound different but they would limit the digital files you can choose from. I believe "CD quality" is already below the threshold of audibility in terms of "sound quality" but there are much more high quality recordings (most important afaic) in the 24bit/192 kHz, DSD256 and DSD512 groups. I would only choose from the ones that don't have onboard digital front end so that I can get choose my own digital front end, be it desktop DAC, network streamer etc.

- Those in the below $5,000 group are typically not more powerful than the mid range AVRs such as the RX-A3080, AVR-X4700H and SR7015. Gene's rave review on the PMA-A110's 4 and 2 Ohm measured output on his bench appeared to be based on the conservative rated output spec of only 80 W into 8 Ohms and 160 W into 4 Ohms. If you look at the numbers though, you will see that it really isn't more powerful than the X3300W he measured a few years ago. So imo, its mostly hypes about that anniversary integrated amp. I like numbers and do rely heavily on bench measurements, but I also believe for real world use, anything with THD+N less than 0.05%, 20,20,000 Hz, from 0.01 W to 2Xrated output would be good enough for anyone except those listen in an near anechoic class hifi room at very low to reference level.

So if it is about the look, then surely the PMA-A110 looks great, but you may find the Marantz Model 30 just as good or better. The Marantz has better specs in general, more powerful and have pre outs, for about the same money. The most important thing for such integrated amps, in my opinion, is the power output into 4 Ohms because while the specified THD+N is just one factor and are typically low enough, it could be a huge problem if you push it to well into the clipping range. At some point THD would shoot straight up, we all have seen enough curves to know that would be bad if you need the power that the amps just cannot deliver without clipping.

On the Denon side, their integrated amps are much more expensive in the sense that the more you pay the less "watts" you get. By the time you pay almost $8,000, you will get only 50 W into 8 Ohms and 100 W into 4 Ohms, no wonder they don't offer those models outside of Asia, where more rich audiophiles are found nowadays. That means Denon integrated amps are bad news if you need more than 200 W into 4 Ohms.

So I would look on the Marantz side of Sound United, or Yamaha's A-S2200 that may not be that powerful either but has the beautiful analog meters and you do get 100 W/200 W 8/4 Ohms in the below $3,500 range. If you are not limited by your budget than there are 200 W/400 W rated ones out there too obviously.

As always, I would suggest you take the first step of making sure you know what you maximum power requirement is going to be in the downsized room. Only then you can choose from those you like and has more power than you need, to ensure in terms of sound quality you won't be going backward from what you have now.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
Peng, thanks for the reply ! my point of reference with respect to Yammie and Technics was their top flight integrated amps, though I believe they are at a higher $$ level. I've got to do some checking..........

it was Gene's review of the Denon and it's basically 'do-all capability' that got me thinking .......
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Peng, thanks for the reply ! my point of reference with respect to Yammie and Technics was their top flight integrated amps, though I believe they are at a higher $$ level. I've got to do some checking..........

it was Gene's review of the Denon and it's basically 'do-all capability' that got me thinking .......
And thank you for the clarification. I think those integrated amps are great. Again, the important thing is to make sure they can deliver the juice, without clipping under the worse case scenario. Such nice amps should in fact sound the same (all amps don't sound the same, but those do, will..;)) if operating well below their clipping point.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for the moving responses gents, all good points and that's why we're in the thinking stage. While are existing house is relatively small (2100 sq ft) and my property modest (1.5 acres) reducing both is what we are thinking about. As for relocation, probably in the same area (family)
Will you be building or buying?

Right now is a bad time to build because of lumber prices- if you're only in the early stage, I would find out what's available WRT existing homes, but keep up on materials pricing, too.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic General
while not immediate the wife and I are contemplating the 'downsizing move' and with that my audio gear will be part of the equation. With Denon's new 110 anniversary toys they seem to have joined the ranks of Technics and Yammie with a nice looking integrated amp solution. Most here have far more first hand experience with Denon, Yamaha and Technics than I do, thoughts .......

When I was researching my next "all-in-one" integrated (coming from the disasterous Pioneer Elite AVR two channel experiment) I was looking at, in addition to and in the PMA-A110's price range, the following (in no particular order):

Marantz Model 30 https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/collections/integrated-amplifiers?page=3&sort_by=price-descending&grid_list=grid-view

Parasound HINT 6 https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/collections/integrated-amplifiers/products/parasound-hint-6-halo-integrated-amplifier

Arcam SA30 https://www.crutchfield.com/p_410SA30/Arcam-SA30.html?tp=34948

Rotel RA-1592 https://www.crutchfield.com/p_440A1592B/Rotel-RA-1592-Black.html

NAD M10 https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/collections/integrated-amplifiers/products/nad-electronics-m10-bluos-streaming-amplifier-1

Of all the listed models, I thought the Marantz was the best looking; Parasound has good analog bass management and the most power; Arcam and NAD both have good apps and Dirac Live. All of the above seem to be excellent choices and it all comes down to features and (especially for me, aesthetics).

In the end, to keep the price down without sacrificing too many features (mainly a dedicated app) I bought the Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated and am extremely happy with it! https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/collections/integrated-amplifiers/products/parasound-200-integrated-integrated-amplifier-and-dac

Good luck in the hunt
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
When I was researching my next "all-in-one" integrated (coming from the disastrous Pioneer Elite AVR two channel experiment)...
IMO, these "all-in-one" Integrated amps with USB and DACs are basically just stereo receivers. :D

I thought you were looking for ANALOG integrated amps. The higher-end Yamaha A-S1200 and A-S2200 don't have USB or DACs since they are purely analog integrated amps.



Only the LOWER-END Yamaha A-S801 has USB and DAC. :D
 

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