Dolby Pro Logic II help

[Hi Ho]

The only reason I can think of to use a digital connection with a PS2 is for watching DVD's. As far as I know, there aren't any games that have discrete 5.1 surround sound.

 

[Jedi2016]

Yep, what Hi Ho said. With the digital cable, you can enjoy digital audio with movies, and apparently there's a slight improvement in the quality of the in-game audio, but I've never noticed it.

The PS2 is incapable of producing 5.1 sound in-game.. it's just too old. The only time you get 5.1 in a game is during an intro or a pre-recorded cutscene (the cutscene intros to the MGS games, for example, are DD5.1, while the game itself is PLII).

Keep that cable handy, though... the PS3's right around the corner, and that one WILL use DD5.1 or DTS5.1 in every game.

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

Ya I don't watch movies with my PS2 anymore, but I do notice a slight improvement in game audio quality. I do plan on buying a PS3 so it's good I bought the optical cable. How much do you guys think PS3 will be? Anyways, Grand Theft Auto Vice City had DTS sound but it was only 4.1 (no center channel), but that's surprising given the games pretty old.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...my PS2 only has an optical audio out and my dvd player only has a coaxial out, so I have my dvd player connected to my cd input (which is coaxial) and my PS2 connected to my DVD input (which is optical). There is one more optical input and that is for my TV/cable box (but as of now I only have basic cable so I am using the analog inputs).

Ok. I've downloaded your manual, and you can reassign the above noted inputs so that when you select DVD with the remote, the receiver will switch to the DVD player even though it's connected to the CD jack etc. Refer to page 44 of the manual. In the receivers menu, you will be able to assign the DVD Input to the coaxial CD jack and the PS2, through the optical DVD jack, to the CD Input. This assumes that you are happy to consider the PS2 as your CD player over your DVD player (though clearly both will play CDs equally well when using a digital connection). If not, simply assign as you prefer.

Anyways I set my receiver to Pro Logic II Music to play a Pro Logic II enabled game, and it still only showed a stereo signal on my receiver. I hear surround sound though (because my receiver decoded it seperately) but I'm just wondering if the receiver is suppose to receive more information.

As an example, I use the analogue lead from my Gamecube to my Yamaha (not a HTR-5830) receiver. The receiver correctly shows only the two stereo 'speakers' on its display, but it also shows the Prologic II indicator lit up even when not receiving a signal, as this is the decoder that I have set as default for the input that I use. I am therefore convinced that your Yamaha should also show the PLII indicator too.

Go through the following checklist and see if the points have been met.

1. On page 26 of the manual, set the Input Mode to 'Auto' (I suspect you already have it there). This will result in the receiver AUTOmatically detecting and displaying the PCM indicator and, for any digital input, the little 'speaker' indicators on the display.

2. On page 28 of the manual, set the Decoder to 'Prologic II'. This should cause the 'PLII' indictor to light up on the display (even if the receiver isn't receiving an input signal).

I don't understand how a receiver can be intelligent like you guys have been talking about, and pick up the best signal or forget a signal.

All the receiver is doing is detecting how many signals it is receiving for a given input, and selecting what it has been told to by its electronics. Thus, if you happen to have analogue cables and a digital cable connected to say the CD jacks, the receiver will automatically give priority to the digital connection. Were you to pull the digital cable out, you would see the receiver's display switch off the PCM indicator, and the receiver to automatically (if Auto input was selected) switch to the analogue connection.

...the only thing my receiver picks up when playing a PL II game is that the audio is outputed via PCM. So basically, nothing is suppose to show up on my receiver automatically, and by me turning to PL II Music, I'm getting the best possible audio?

Refer to the checklist above. I'm convinced that once you set the Decoder to Prologic II, the indicator will light up regardless of whether or not a signal is actually present.

Anyways, on another note, is it okay for me to be inputting my dvd player audio through the CD input on my receiver (given I have no other choice). Is there any disadvantages of it? Everything sounds top-notch though.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using any audio input for any component (though obviously not mixing analogue jacks with digital jacks etc), but for ease of use, it's handy to reassign the inputs to match the components. Refer above for help with this.

Robbie

 

[Jedi2016]

...I use the analogue lead from my Gamecube to my Yamaha (not a HTR-5830) receiver. The receiver correctly shows only the two stereo 'speakers' on its display, but it also shows the Prologic II indicator...

Yeah, I think that's just the difference between manufacturers. Yamaha shows you what the system is recieving, while Sony shows you what the system is outputting. So yes, seeing only two speakers on your Yamaha is exactly what you should see.

How much do you guys think PS3 will be? Anyways, Grand Theft Auto Vice City had DTS sound but it was only 4.1 (no center channel), but that's surprising given the games pretty old.

The price of the PS3 hasn't been announced yet. Most likely somewhere between $350-400, about the cost of the Xbox360. Probably closer to the $400 mark. Which I think is still a good deal, even though it's more expensive than consoles have traditionally been. For one, it's a stupidly-powerful game system, and it's also a Blu-Ray player. Can't beat that for $400.

There are a handful of games that use DTS in-game, but just a few. The reason is that DTS is software-driven, so as long as the system can devote a bit of power to it, it can do the encoding in the game. Dolby Digital, as I understand it, actually requires a chip of some sort, or a special piece of firmware somewhere.. something the PS2 is lacking. I think it's mainly because those little chippy thingies simply didn't exist when the system was built six years ago. So yes, it can do DTS, if the developers choose to devote the power to it, but it can't do Dolby Digital except in pre-recorded video or cutscene audio.

 

[MDS]

PCM and auto signal detection

PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) is a digital format - it is the format of the data on a CD, WAV (or AIFF) files on your harddrive, and it is the underlying format for lossy compression files too (mp3, wma, aac, etc). It is the lowest common denominator in digital audio - a 'raw' format, which incidentally is why some dvd players use the term 'raw' instead of 'bitstream' for specifying that you want the digital data output rather than having it converted to analog by the player.

PLII is a matrix decoder that can take any 2 channel analog or digital (pcm or dolby digital) signal and turn it into 5.1 channels. Some receivers also allow you to apply PLII to DTS signals.

If a game says it is PLII encoded, it is still PCM and will still play in stereo without engaging the PLII decoder. The only way the receiver will automatically switch to the PLII decoder for such a signal is if it has menu settings where you can set the 'default' format for any particular signal type. For example, if you set PLII Music as the default for 2 channel PCM signals, it will always switch to the PLII Music decoder every time it sees 2 channel PCM.

As far as digital signals having a 'marker' that identifies the type, that is actually a good layman description. An S/PDIF frame has bits that identify the type of signal. If audio is lost for a split second, the receiver will have to identify the type again - unless you set it permanently as one poster said he had to do. It's generally best to leave it on auto but there are rare cases where its necessary to specify the type and that is why receivers allow you to do it.

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

OK, I think everything is pretty resolved here and I understand everything now. Thanks alot for your help guys, and thanks buckle-meister for the explanations, I'm gonna go through the manual now and see what I can do.

 

[Jedi2016]

As far as digital signals having a 'marker' that identifies the type, that is actually a good layman description. An S/PDIF frame has bits that identify the type of signal. If audio is lost for a split second, the receiver will have to identify the type again - unless you set it permanently as one poster said he had to do. It's generally best to leave it on auto but there are rare cases where its necessary to specify the type and that is why receivers allow you to do it.

I think mine only allows you to lock the audio mode with PCM only.. it won't do it for the digital formats like DD or DTS.

And even when it's locked like that, it's still overridden when it recieves a digital signal.. if a DD5.1 signal comes through the cable, it'll switch to DD5.1, then back to PCM once it's gone. So everything's shiny for now, I'm just worried about what's going to happen when I get a PS3.

 

[bobbydigital]

One PS2 game that does transmit true 5.1 signal is GTA: vice city which was DTS and sounded awesome. Its a shame they changed to PL11 for San Andreas

What is the point of being able to toggle between PL11 and stereo sound in a video game if the recievers still recieving a stereo signal no matter what and then applying whatever processing you choose?

 

[Buckle-meister]

What is the point of being able to toggle between PL11 and stereo sound in a video game if the recievers still recieving a stereo signal no matter what and then applying whatever processing you choose?

Not quite sure I understand your question, but here goes:

Prologic II allows you to take a two-channel signal and extrapolate it up to 5.1 sound. There may however be instances when you don't want to use PLII even if you have the capability to do so. For example, I personally would never play CD's using PLII, but when it comes to games, I'm quite happy to use it. The receiver is simply giving you the option to do whatever you prefer.

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

One PS2 game that does transmit true 5.1 signal is GTA: vice city which was DTS and sounded awesome.

Ya, I already said that. It has 4.1, theres no use of the center channel.