Dolby Pro Logic II help

[5.1 DTS guy]

Hi, I just bought a digital optical cord for my audio out on my playstation 2, and since most PS2 games use Pro Logic II (its advertised on the box), how do I utilize it? I went to the audio menu and selected it, but on my receiver it only shows a stereo signal. It does says Pro Logic but it always says pro logic on the receiver when I'm not getting a digital signal/no decoders from the source. I expected Pro Logic II to come up on my receiver. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Brian_the_King]

Have you tried more than one game?

 

[ltheis]

I also have a yamaha reciver and had a similar problem w/ dvd's in DTS turns out the only way the Yamaha reciver would read a DTS signal was throught the digital coax input, wich is only for the "cd player". The answer is to switch the recivers input to "cd" then it should automaticly switch to pro logic II.

 

[Brian_the_King]

^^
I like that idea more than mine ;p

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

Have you tried more than one game?

ya i tried most of my games and nothing happens

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

I also have a yamaha reciver and had a similar problem w/ dvd's in DTS turns out the only way the Yamaha reciver would read a DTS signal was throught the digital coax input, wich is only for the "cd player". The answer is to switch the recivers input to "cd" then it should automaticly switch to pro logic II.

Well all my dvds enable DTS or Dolby Digital and one of my grand theft auto games enables DTS on the receiver, its just my pro logic II games and I can't see why the input would make a difference. sorry but can u clarify just a little more because if I switch to CD input then there's just no sound.

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

anyone know what i should do? thanks for any help.

 

[ltheis]

Ok the only way the HTR-5830 can read a digital input signal is throught either the digital coax or optical inputs. When you turn the reciver to cd it recives signal from the analog (rca) and digital coax inputs and picks the better source. When you select dvd it reads from the analog and optical inputs again picking the best source. When you select anything else on the reciver it only reads from the analog inputs. Your reciver can not read a digital signal through the analog inputs. Trust me run a digital coax cable from the ps2 to the reciver, select "cd" for input and enjoy.

 

[Jedi2016]

Just because it's a digital cable doesn't mean it's a digital signal.

I'm not sure of the technicalities of it, but digital signals contain a "marker" of sorts that tells the reciever what kind of signal it's getting. So when you're watching a DVD through coax, it can tell the difference between stereo, PLII, mono, DD, DTS, etc, and select the proper decoder.

An analog signal doesn't have that. And since a PLII signal is carried on only two channels, that's all the reciever can see. It sees two channels coming in, so it makes it stereo.

So, all you have to do is tell the reciever what to do with it. This is one of those circumstances where your reciever isn't going to do all the work for you. Basically, just flip through the various input modes on your reciever until you find a "Pro Logic II" setting, at which point you'll see the little display on your reciever switch to all five channels. I have mine set to "Pro Logic II Music" (since the "Movie" setting loses all of the bass for some reason, and my reciever doesn't have a "Game" setting).

 

[Buckle-meister]

Beat me to it Jedi2016!

I agree with Jedi2016. It would appear that you have Dolby Prologic set as the default decoder for the particular input in question. The receiver's menu will tell you how to change it to Dolby Prologic II.

I expected Pro Logic II to come up on my receiver.

If your receiver is the Yamaha HTR 5830 as Itheis indicates, then it will indeed.

Regards

 

[Jedi2016]

Beat me to it Jedi2016!

I only know it because I had the same issue when I hooked my PS2 into my 5.1 system.

My PS2 (which is on it's own input) is "permanently" set to PLII, so it uses it even in games that don't support it (doesn't sound as good as full PLII, but it's better than stereo, because it at least uses all of the channels). Luckily, because I'm using an optical cable, it will still "override" whenever it recieves a true digital signal (like a DD5.1 FMV or something), and then it'll switch back to PLII once it gets the analog signal again.

I also had to tell it that the incoming signal will always be PCM. It used to have an issue where it would "wait" to confirm the incoming signal before decoding it. So whenever the game went silent, it would "forget" what it was recieving, and when the sound kicked back in again, it wouldn't decode it right away. Drove me bonkers until I read the manual and realized I could lock it into a specific input type. So now it just automatically decodes it like a PCM signal (which is what the PS2 outputs), unless it recieves specific instructions otherwise from the console (i.e. a DD5.1 signal).

What worries me is that that "decoding delay" may return with the new PS3, which will be using digital signals only. I don't know if I'll be able to set it to a single input type to avoid it. As long as there's some sound coming through the cable, it's fine, but if it ever goes dead silent (which games occasionally do), it'll get all wonky for a minute.

It's a Sony... err... something-or-other, by the way. One of their system-in-a-box things that had the reciever and all the speakers. Bought it about a year and a half ago.

 

[Buckle-meister]

I also had to tell it that the incoming signal will always be PCM. It used to have an issue where it would "wait" to confirm the incoming signal before decoding it. So whenever the game went silent, it would "forget" what it was recieving, and when the sound kicked back in again, it wouldn't decode it right away.

I know what you mean about the pause to decide which signal the receiver is getting. What I can't understand is why the receiver would 'forget' the signal.

Example: If I switch my receiver to CD input even though the CD player is off, the receiver displays 'Direct analogue' (I have it set to 'Auto' signal detection). However, as soon as I switch on the CD player, even though I'm not playing anything, the receiver correctly displays 'Direct PCM'. Thus, it doesn't matter whether or not I'm playing music; 'Direct PCM' will remain untill I either change input, or switch off the CD player.

It's very odd that your receiver somehow 'forgets' the signal when there's no sound. I can't imagine why it would do this.

Regards

 

[Jedi2016]

I haven't figured it out yet myself.

Here's an example of how it happens:

Let's say I'm playing an FPS game.. MOA: Frontline, for example (about the only FPS I own.. hehe). While I'm running around, with footsteps and such, I can glance up at my reciever and see all the little "speakers" lit up (the ones that tell you what the system is using), with the window simply displaying "PLYSTN2" (which I programmed as the label for the Video2 input).

Now, if I'm in a quiet portion of the game with no ambient sound effects, if I stop moving, making no sound at all, those little "speakers" on the reciever will disappear.. the PS2 is outputting no audio signal whatsoever, and so the reciever "drops" it.

Then, if I suddenly fire my weapon, the "speakers" on the reciever will activate, and it'll scroll across "PCM 48KHZ" (or whatever). But, it happens a split-second too late, and all I hear out of the speakers is the sound of my rifle shot fading off into the distance.

Drives you nuts.

That's why I had to dig around through the manual and find a way to "lock" it into PCM mode permanently. So unless it's told differently by a digital signal, it'll decode PCM without having to figure it out first. So I no longer have the issue of missing sound.

I think the feature was added due to CDs, like you mention. That the reciever may "drop" the signal between songs, where it's recieving no signal at all, and then have to "recognize" the incoming signal at the beginning of the next song. This "PCM Lock" feature was no doubt added to alleviate that annoyance.

As I said, I just hope it's not a big issue with the next-gen consoles, since I'll no longer be able to use that feature.. I don't think I can "lock" it into Dolby Digital mode, it'll have to figure it out based on the incoming signal, which will be going through the same optical cable I'm using now. As long as the games are programmed in such a way that there's always some sound coming through, then it won't be a problem.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...I'm in a quiet portion of the game with no ambient sound effects...I stop moving, making no sound at all...I suddenly fire my weapon...But, it happens a split-second too late, and all I hear...is the sound of my rifle shot fading off into the distance.

Drives you nuts.

I know! Use a silencer! Or, or a throwing knife!

Regards

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

OK. Heres an update. First of all, yes, my receiver is a Yamaha. Secondly, my PS2 only has an optical audio out and my dvd player only has a coaxial out, so I have my dvd player connected to my cd input (which is coaxial) and my PS2 connected to my DVD input (which is optical). There is one more optical input and that is for my TV/cable box (but as of now I only have basic cable so I am using the analog inputs). Anyways I set my receiver to Pro Logic II Music to play a Pro Logic II enabled game, and it still only showed a stereo signal on my receiver. I hear surround sound though (because my receiver decoded it seperately) but I'm just wondering if the receiver is suppose to receive more information. I don't understand how a receiver can be intelligent like you guys have been talking about, and pick up the best signal or forget a signal. My receiver is pretty straight foward and I just set it to PL II Music. When I watch a DVD with DD or DTS enabled, the receiver picks it up, but the only thing my receiver picks up when playing a PL II game is that the audio is outputed via PCM. So basically, nothing is suppose to show up on my receiver automatically, and by me turning to PL II Music, I'm getting the best possible audio?

Anyways, on another note, is it okay for me to be inputting my dvd player audio through the CD input on my receiver (given I have no other choice). Is there any disadvantages of it? Everything sounds top-notch though. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Hi Ho]

Just because it's a digital cable doesn't mean it's a digital signal.

If it's an optical cable or a coaxial cable connected to digital inputs and outputs then you will get nothing but digital.

On my receiver, if it is getting a stereo signal and it is set to "surround" it will enable ProLogic II.

 

[Jedi2016]

As far as I know, all of the connections are the same.. I think those labels are only there to help people hook up stuff together.

My Sony reciever has one coax and one optical input. The coax is labeled "DVD", and the optical is labeled "Video2" (which is where my PS2 is hooked up anyway). I'm assuming there's a way of switching the input if necessary if something is plugged into a "different" port. My friend has an RCA reciever and his has two audio options for the DVD setting... DVD/ANL and DVD/COAX. Obviously, he uses the Coax option, since that's where his audio is coming in.

As for the PLII sound you're getting.. as long as you're hearing a surround signal (i.e. things coming from the rear speakers), then your reciever is working properly. What you see on the display might be a representation of the signal that the reciever is getting rather than what it's doing with it. At it's heart, a PLII signal is only two channels of audio. It's just mixed in such a way (through phase variances or something, I think), that a reciever can "pull" the audio out of those two channels and split it up over five. Every PLII signal is encoded the exact same way, so the reciever just does it's default PLII decoding to it, and off it goes, every time.

As for how "smart" they are? I don't think they are, really.. hehe. What it is is that digital signals carry a special marker that the reciever can understand. Think of it like a Post-It note that says "DTS 5.1" or whatever, that it's sending to the reciever. The reciever sees that marker, and applies the proper decoder to it. It only does whatever the device tells it to do. But this marker is ONLY sent as part of a digital signal, like DTS or Dolby Digital. The PCM signal sent by the PS2 is analog.. it's the same signal that comes in through the red/white composite cables, except that it's now being sent through an optical wire instead. The reciever can't tell the difference. But because it doesn't carry any sort of digital marker, it takes it a split second longer to analyze the signal to decide what to do with it.

As long as you're telling it to do PLII decoding on the PS2's signal, and as long as you're hearing surround sound, then you're fine.

 

[Jedi2016]

If it's an optical cable or a coaxial cable connected to digital inputs and outputs then you will get nothing but digital.

PCM is an analog format. The fact that it's carried by a digital cable doesn't change that. Otherwise, it would automatically decode PLII without being told, yes?

 

[Hi Ho]

My receiver engages PL II with any stereo signal regardless of whether it is digital or not.

Regarding PCM, I know it is not technically a digital format but it is still sent in a "digital fashion".

 

[5.1 DTS guy]

Ya, PL and PL II work with stereo signals and digital signals. So basically I'm getting almost identical sound on my games then what I had with just analogue connecters. I guess the real point of having digital audio with a PS2 is when games utilize DD or DTS maybe?