DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[TjMV3]

That dickish stuff gets people everytime.

As it should.

 

[mnnc]

Power To The People!!!!!!!!!!!! Get'em man.

 

[SimpleSetup]

Anybody know if the OP got the money back?

 

[MinusTheBear]

Over/Under on the AV123 forum opening back up by May 1st. I say over.

 

[dylancash]

Over/Under on the AV123 forum opening back up by May 1st. I say over.

Are you talking about 2009?

 

[freeride]

Cory-my take on reader's digest version

Company went from higher margin products to lower mass market approach.

Mark bet big in Columbia and lost his *** converting a furniture factory into a speaker factory and due to a fluctuating US dollar. In the meantime, he lightened up in China. Mark thought he could make the LS for a profit, but is probably giving away money every time he delivers one. Columbia never made near initial expectations and margins went south.

Add Columbia build up+the yields being NO WHERE near estimates+trying to satisfify all + living large+ and falling behind on lots + issues with QC, crappy part substitutions in China for the big electronics return, ergo ALL = Major MLS train de-railment.


AV123 is probably going to survive, but in a smaller way and with reduced product line. MLS is a good guy who is digging himself a whole his body is not able to climb out of.

He tried to hit one out of the park, but went down swinging, and the fans are just as shocked and in disbelief. But the old slugger will be going back to spring training and trying and get in shape for next season.

PM

Seems like this thread lost its focus. Everyone should read nhpm510's post. I think he is right on the money.

I ordered an MFW-15 from Mark, as part of the Columbia deal, in April of '08, and didn't get it until October of '08. I was supposed to get it within a couple weeks.

I watched this whole saga unfold on the AV123 forums, as I waited with baited breath to see if my MFW-15 would ever arrive. Well...it did. It was cheap, and Mark never charged me for shipping. There is no way he made any money off the sub he sold me. Maybe enough for lunch at Taco Bell, but not enough to sustain business.

He was losing money big when the value of the dollar dropped against the Peso.

It sounds like the hole he was in last year is turning into a pit. That's a bummer, because I think he had good intentions. He was very direct and honest with me on the phone, but he is also overly optomistic.

Also, you folks should be clear about what your complaining about. Deals through MLS should not be treated the same as deals through AV123. If you didn't shop on the AV123 website, put speakers in the shopping cart, and then check out...then you probably paid MLS through PayPal, like I did...which is not a AV123 purchase. Regardless of the name of the company, any PayPal payment sent to "anybody"@mac.com...is not dealing with AV123.

I sure hope MLS delivers on the orders I've been reading about on this thread. Some of you poor b@stards have sunk a LOT of money into his good intentions.

Even after reading this entire thread, and from my personal experience with unknown wait times, I would still buy from AV123. But only if I got them on the phone, and had some assurances about when my order would be shipped. I have been extremely pleased with my MFW-15, and would still consider other AV123 products...but only from AV123 (I don't know about pre-orders though...makes me nervous).

Unfortunately, I wouldn't buy straight from MLS, because frankly, he isn't dependable with his health failing, and he doesn't have a backup plan for when he is out of commission. The unknowns, and the waiting is too stressful for me.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Seems like this thread lost its focus. Everyone should read nhpm510's post. I think he is right on the money.

I ordered an MFW-15 from Mark, as part of the Columbia deal, in April of '08, and didn't get it until October of '08. I was supposed to get it within a couple weeks.

I watched this whole saga unfold on the AV123 forums, as I waited with baited breath to see if my MFW-15 would ever arrive. Well...it did. It was cheap, and Mark never charged me for shipping. There is no way he made any money off the sub he sold me. Maybe enough for lunch at Taco Bell, but not enough to sustain business.

He was losing money big when the value of the dollar dropped against the Peso.

It sounds like the hole he was in last year is turning into a pit. That's a bummer, because I think he had good intentions. He was very direct and honest with me on the phone, but he is also overly optomistic.

Also, you folks should be clear about what your complaining about. Deals through MLS should not be treated the same as deals through AV123. If you didn't shop on the AV123 website, put speakers in the shopping cart, and then check out...then you probably paid MLS through PayPal, like I did...which is not a AV123 purchase. Regardless of the name of the company, any PayPal payment sent to "anybody"@mac.com...is not dealing with AV123.

I sure hope MLS delivers on the orders I've been reading about on this thread. Some of you poor b@stards have sunk a LOT of money into his good intentions.

Even after reading this entire thread, and from my personal experience with unknown wait times, I would still buy from AV123. But only if I got them on the phone, and had some assurances about when my order would be shipped. I have been extremely pleased with my MFW-15, and would still consider other AV123 products...but only from AV123 (I don't know about pre-orders though...makes me nervous).

Unfortunately, I wouldn't buy straight from MLS, because frankly, he isn't dependable with his health failing, and he doesn't have a backup plan for when he is out of commission. The unknowns, and the waiting is too stressful for me.

The ongoing theme I have seen in this thread is that people have bought AV123 products directly from the owner rather than through the company. Why people would think that isn't shady to begin with, is absolutely amazing to me. Part of the blame of you guys getting screwed over should be held personally for not having the insight that buying a companies product direct from the owner on the side is just plain shady. If someone is ligitimately running a business, there is no legal means by which he would be better off selling stuff not through the company.

So, giving up the protection of a company (such as personal protection from lawsuits, which he gave up by selling directly), there has to be something very fishy going on. Now I'm not saying you guys should sue him personally, because he probably doesn't have a dime to his name and it would cost a fair amount to sue over a couple grand. The best you'd get is maybe your money back and some more for your time, but, when your talking about inexpensive speakers its not really worth it.

To speculate, AV123, the company, is paying for these speakers he is selling personally to get built, but he is then selling them personally to put the money in his pocket rather than the business that is probably going under. He wants to seperate the money from the business. So he is basically not only f**king you guys, but also his employees by selling direct. He could sell cheaply direct, because the business was taking the hit and he was taking the profits directly. You guys paid him through a paypal or something, right?! He was just glamming the money and letting the business take a hit, and its not like any bank or agency would really look much at it because lots of businesses are doing bad now... so the chances of catching someone doing something like this is like small potatos.

Now, honestly, I have no way of officially knowing this, but, that just seems to be the case from what I can gather from this thread.

 

[jonnythan]

Perusing this through Paypal is almost a worthless endeavor in my past experience with them.

I've had the exact opposite experience. I've used Paypal's claim services and been fully satisfied 3 out of 4 times. And the fourth time, they recovered $210 of the $250 I sent to a fraudulent seller.

 

[ivseenbetter]

Seems like this thread lost its focus. Everyone should read nhpm510's post. I think he is right on the money.

I ordered an MFW-15 from Mark, as part of the Columbia deal, in April of '08, and didn't get it until October of '08. I was supposed to get it within a couple weeks.

I watched this whole saga unfold on the AV123 forums, as I waited with baited breath to see if my MFW-15 would ever arrive. Well...it did. It was cheap, and Mark never charged me for shipping. There is no way he made any money off the sub he sold me. Maybe enough for lunch at Taco Bell, but not enough to sustain business.

He was losing money big when the value of the dollar dropped against the Peso.

It sounds like the hole he was in last year is turning into a pit. That's a bummer, because I think he had good intentions. He was very direct and honest with me on the phone, but he is also overly optomistic.

Also, you folks should be clear about what your complaining about. Deals through MLS should not be treated the same as deals through AV123. If you didn't shop on the AV123 website, put speakers in the shopping cart, and then check out...then you probably paid MLS through PayPal, like I did...which is not a AV123 purchase. Regardless of the name of the company, any PayPal payment sent to "anybody"@mac.com...is not dealing with AV123.

I sure hope MLS delivers on the orders I've been reading about on this thread. Some of you poor b@stards have sunk a LOT of money into his good intentions.

Even after reading this entire thread, and from my personal experience with unknown wait times, I would still buy from AV123. But only if I got them on the phone, and had some assurances about when my order would be shipped. I have been extremely pleased with my MFW-15, and would still consider other AV123 products...but only from AV123 (I don't know about pre-orders though...makes me nervous).

Unfortunately, I wouldn't buy straight from MLS, because frankly, he isn't dependable with his health failing, and he doesn't have a backup plan for when he is out of commission. The unknowns, and the waiting is too stressful for me.

Thanks! And I agree. Bash MLS...not AV123. MFW's rock and so do the rocket line and as long as you order them on the AV123 website you should have nooo problems.

 

[Alex2507]

I've had the exact opposite experience. I've used Paypal's claim services and been fully satisfied 3 out of 4 times. And the fourth time, they recovered $210 of the $250 I sent to a fraudulent seller.

I've had the exact opposite experience. I've used Paypal's claim services and been f^%&ed hard 3 out of 4 times. And the fourth time, they told me to go f^%& myself. Well, not exactly but it sounds good, doesn't it?

I'm with Matt on this.

Who the hell is buying up that store credit for AV123?

 

[MinusTheBear]

He wants to seperate the money from the business. So he is basically not only f**king you guys, but also his employees by selling direct.

If AV123 employees make any sort of commission on sales then they are getting screwed. I cant help but believe these personal transactions take up money, time and resources from the actual employees and company itself. Its obvious this situation has been a burden on the company. I find it difficult to separate them other than where the money was sent.

 

[dylancash]

Also, you folks should be clear about what your complaining about. Deals through MLS should not be treated the same as deals through AV123. If you didn't shop on the AV123 website, put speakers in the shopping cart, and then check out...then you probably paid MLS through PayPal, like I did...which is not a AV123 purchase. Regardless of the name of the company, any PayPal payment sent to "anybody"@mac.com...is not dealing with AV123.
...

Unfortunately, I wouldn't buy straight from MLS, because frankly, he isn't dependable with his health failing, and he doesn't have a backup plan for when he is out of commission. The unknowns, and the waiting is too stressful for me.

As somebody who probably has owned over 15k of AV123 gear since 1999 I will let you know that not once did I ever put anything in my cart or pick up the phone and call. I always sent a direct email to Mark or Sean as that was the way it was done in the early days and continued for the old timers. They had my card on file and took care of it. Everything I purchased was from AV123. Whenever they started doing the Graham Co. I wasn't aware of and it appears as though not many else were either, or at least it wasn't covered by AV123. I just wanted to show another side of the story because I don't want the people who were swindled to look like fools for buying stuff in the same manner a lot of people were expected to there. I am not owed anything but I completely empathize with the people who dealt directly with Mark, as I had many times, and now find that he no longer represents AV123. Pretty lame switcheroo to me.

 

[dylancash]

Thanks! And I agree. Bash MLS...not AV123. MFW's rock and so do the rocket line and as long as you order them on the AV123 website you should have nooo problems.

My good friend is on his third amp for his MFW and he bought through AV123. Maybe you should call him and tell him he has nooo problems.

 

[freeride]

Well, this is a pretty complicated story. I suppose only MLS knows the complete version. My history with the company only goes back 1 year, so I should be careful how I speculate.

I do hope they pull out of this mess. My MFW15, with a complete Palisander finish, is one of the most beautiful pieces of furniture/equipment in my house, and it was cheaper than DIY. I'd love to own Rockets someday, but between the economy and the unreliability of MLS...it will be a while.

 

[worduphod]

Simple question: has ANYONE ordered and received an AV123 product in the past 30-60 days? Anyone? If so, post here and let's get some sort of idea if they are completely out of business or not, which products are shipping, which are not, etc. It may be that they are taking orders on everything but only emptying out their current inventory.

We don't know. But the bottom line is it doesn't pass the smell test.[/QUOTE]


I ordered the rocket 850 package at the end of January 2009. I received the package in a timely maner and in perfect condition. I was also given a great price on this package (below their current pre-order price). I also order two MFW's at the end of December 08. These also arived in a timely fashion and in perfect condition (as of this post, amps are still working fine).

I think the key with AV123, at this time, is to order items that are in stock. Seems like the majority of the problems arise from pre-paid, pre-orders.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Simple question: has ANYONE ordered and received an AV123 product in the past 30-60 days? Anyone?

This is the Internet, no one has any money, we are all just a bunch of strokes.

 

[ivseenbetter]

My good friend is on his third amp for his MFW and he bought through AV123. Maybe you should call him and tell him he has nooo problems.

I'm sorry about your friends problem. I don't think calling him up and telling he he has "nooo problems" would be accepted well by him. I'll pass on that. But there are folks that have had noooo problems and I have been one of them. And I haven't even had my gear for that long. I'm a fairly new AV123 customer. I'm just trying to point out that I still think AV123 is a good product.

 

[calnbs]

That answer is simple: YES. People have been receiving their ELT Package and some of the instock Rocket RS450 Package as recently as a few days ago. They have delivered on their last X-mas special sale as well....late but delivered. Even some of the MFW 15 have been delivered (with the older amp), which some people took the chance despite recent problems....they are willing to bet that AV123 will take care of the situation if it arises.

Now, have they delivered the LS speakers.....Don't hold your breath. I wouldn't touch anything from AV123 if its not in production.

To safe guard yourself if you still chose to buy AV123 products...Just DON'T buy the PRE-PAY method. They have a 2nd option, which is to pay when the speakers are ready to ship...Of'course, it'll cost more but better than the alternative. ALWAYS buy with YOUR CREDIT CARD and ask your CC within the time period you can dispute those charges, should any problems arise. Should you or should you not buy.....ONLY YOU can determine that.

 

[JimmyTango]

I've had the exact opposite experience. I've used Paypal's claim services and been fully satisfied 3 out of 4 times. And the fourth time, they recovered $210 of the $250 I sent to a fraudulent seller.

That is because the people you sent the money to had the money still in their paypal account, except the 4th who only had $210 of the $250 in the account.

This is the extent of paypal's 'powers,' they can and will only refund you if the person has the funds in their account. there is no extra protection they give you, the buyer.

All paypal does is charge a sh1t load in fees to do the CC processing, many times 3x what a bank would charge a seller. you are taking more money out of the person selling something under a 100% false pretense that you are getting 'better, safer, protection.'

 

[jonnythan]

That is because the people you sent the money to had the money still in their paypal account, except the 4th who only had $210 of the $250 in the account.

This is the extent of paypal's 'powers,' they can and will only refund you if the person has the funds in their account. there is no extra protection they give you, the buyer.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzt. Nope. Wrongo. Paypal can and does pull money directly from one's primary funding source to settle claims.