Do I need a line conditioner?

[gus6464]

I was at BB last night and the sales guy told me that it could have been a surge that killed my Toshiba LCD. At first I wouldn't have listened to him but 2 months before this my Wii died as it just stopped powering on. So now I am thinking that I might have a surge problem in my apartment. I don't want my new plasma that is being delivered today to break on me so I was wondering if getting a line conditioner wouldn't be a bad decision after all. Right now I do have a Belkin Surge protector but I can switch out to a more heavy duty APC ones that I use for my PCs.

Could anyone recommend a good surge/conditioner that won't break the bank? Maybe like $100? Don't know if that would be too little or too much.

Are these any good?
http://www.buy.com/prod/monster-cable-powercenter-mp-hts-1000-mkii-8-outlets-surge-suppressor/q/loc/101/202732536.html

This Belkin one looks like a beast for $120 shipped.
http://www.buy.com/prod/pureav-ap21101-12-home-theater-surge-protector-11-outlet/q/loc/111/203330519.html

 

[Adam]

I have that exact Belkin unit, and that's not a bad price for it (I paid about $135 back in January). It works fine for me. I don't think that the line conditioning does much (well, does anything) to improve picture or sound, but it is supposed to be a good surge protector. A note about buying any of the power consoles for your component stack: the power outlets are on the back. Once it's installed in your stack, you need to be able to get to the back of it to plug things in. I hadn't considered that, and it was a little difficult to plug components into it in my center.

The display on that Belkin can't be completely turned off, and even on the dimmest setting it's equivalent to one of those indigo night lights.

I've seen this Belkin on sale at buy.com for $32 a couple of times and grabbed one for my parents. I wouldn't pay the current price of $73 for it, but I think at $32 it's a bargain. I probably would have gotten that instead of the console had I known about it.

 

[zildjian]

Normally I'd say you probably don't need it, but since you've had the problems you have had recently, who knows. I use a Monster HTS 3500 (not made anymore, old model), and I can tell zero difference before and after it's installation. I didn't have any static/ground loop problems before either. Basically I just wanted a little more peace of mind and a nice power strip to plug everything into. I still have to use a power strip from another outlet b/c I ran out of plugs in the line conditioner, and I still unplug everything when I'm home during an electrical storm.

I'd first decide what style you want, rack component style or large power strip format. The Belkin looks like a better buy price wise. If I get another one I'll probably just put it behind my A/V rack since rack space is a priority. The display looks nice on the Belkin if it's something you want to be able to see. I think a couple guys here have bought a Belkin model, maybe they can chime in. I have no complaints on my Monster one, but again, had no problems before so does it make a difference... not yet. It's one of those things you hope you never need. Insurance!

Edit: one FYI, if you want to have any hope of filing for the insurance claim if you get hit by lightning and the power condition doesn't protect your equipment, you have to have purchased it from an authorized dealer. Monster line conditioners on ebay may be great (that's where I got mine!!! and it was still in the box), but now I can't count on any of the "up to $250,000 insurance..." if I needed it. (as I knock on my wood table...). So put everything on your home owners insurance or insure the possessions in your apartment if you get one from an "unauthorized retailer". I assume buy.com is fine though. Or buy it from the Vatican gift shop, and you'll surely be protected from lightning strikes!

 

[gus6464]

Well right now I have a spare one of these that I use on my computers and I haven't had a problem with them.

Do you think this would suffice?

 

[Adam]

APC makes good units. That should work fine for the power cord side of things.

If you're running a coax cable from somewhere outside of your house (cable TV, satellite dish, external antenna), I'd suggest considering using a unit that also has surge protection for one or more coax lines. I got my parents that Belkin power strip that I mentioned just for the coax protection. That said, they have never once had a problem with a coax surge, and they've been using cable and/or external antenna for decades without any surge protection. It was just added insurance, and it was cheap at $32.

 

[mtrycrafts]

!

Edit: one FYI, if you want to have any hope of filing for the insurance claim if you get hit by lightning and the power condition doesn't protect your equipment, you have to have purchased it from an authorized dealer. Monster line conditioners on ebay may be great (that's where I got mine!!! and it was still in the box), but now I can't count on any of the "up to $250,000 insurance..." if I needed it. (as I knock on my wood table...). So put everything on your home owners insurance or insure the possessions in your apartment if you get one from an "unauthorized retailer". I assume buy.com is fine though. Or buy it from the Vatican gift shop, and you'll surely be protected from lightning strikes!

If one reads the fine print on the box, or paper inserts, the claimed insurance take effect after any home owners insurance. And, from the horror stories mentioned in the past, you will be lucky if you can prove to the company that their unit didn't protect. They have all sorts of ways to get out from paying, even the home owner's deductible.

 

[zildjian]

If one reads the fine print on the box, or paper inserts, the claimed insurance take effect after any home owners insurance. And, from the horror stories mentioned in the past, you will be lucky if you can prove to the company that their unit didn't protect. They have all sorts of ways to get out from paying, even the home owner's deductible.

I've heard that too. I'm happy w/ my home owners insurance, and they didn't give me any problems replacing things when lightning hit my house about 12+ years ago. I had to pay the $500 deductible, but after that there was a few hundred dollars that was covered. It didn't hurt any of the electronics or either of 2 TV's in the house other than two cordless phones, clock radio, and most of the security system components. I was on vacation and came home to find the nearest tree damaged by lightning, bark from the tree embedded in the mortal joint between the bricks on the house , and the ceiling in the garage was cracked. Luckily I was in the habit of unplugging my stereo if I was going to be out of town for a few days just in case of such events...being anal paid off that day! Also notice I said "stereo", no surround sound or center channel speakers in my house yet. Even if insurance was 100% for such damages, I'd rather have my equipment than the $$$, especially since my amps aren't made anymore and are getting too hard to find. I want them, not replacements or $. Now if it just took out my small CRT HDTV....

 

[Fastnbulbous]

Amp buzz

I recently set up an Acurus A200x3 amp to power my Opus speakers. There's an annoying buzz that's quite loud. A friend's troubleshooting guide for his amp says that amp based buzz/hum is due to AC line noise. Ideally the hi-fi stuff should not be on the same circuit as halogen lamps, light-dimmers, large appliances (esp. with motors, frige, microwave). If that's not possible, there are power conditioners that can be bought.

However, my apt has 20 separate circuits, so the washer/dryer, fridge, stove, microwave, dishwasher, etc. each have their very own separate 20 amp circuits. There are two separate outlet circuits in the kitchen, both 20 amps. The rest of the apt uses 15 amp circuits for outlets and lights.

I suppose the kitchen circuit that I have the amp plugged into might also serve the halogen lights mounted on the ceiling. However the buzz is there even when the lights are off. Argh.

I'm hoping a power conditioner will solve this problem. I looked at specs on a Rotel power conditioner, and its output is only 12 amps, and I need 15. So I need to do some research on what the best conditioner would be for my purposes and for the money. I'd rather not spend more than $120 or so.

Anyone have opinions on these Furman conditioners? I can't see what the difference is between the $55 M-8, and the $159 PL-8 II.

 

[skizzerflake]

I was at BB last night and the sales guy told me that it could have been a surge that killed my Toshiba LCD. At first I wouldn't have listened to him but 2 months before this my Wii died as it just stopped powering on. So now I am thinking that I might have a surge problem in my apartment. I don't want my new plasma that is being delivered today to break on me so I was wondering if getting a line conditioner wouldn't be a bad decision after all. Right now I do have a Belkin Surge protector but I can switch out to a more heavy duty APC ones that I use for my PCs.

Could anyone recommend a good surge/conditioner that won't break the bank? Maybe like $100? Don't know if that would be too little or too much.

Get one with an insurance policy. That will be the main thing of value. Also have homeowner's insurance. Even a fairly expensive unit won't do much with a close lightning strike, but if you get a check in the mail it will ease the pain. Last summer a strike 1 block from my house went right past several surge protectors and fried a TV, HT receiver, a wonderful old Carver stereo amp, a PC's power supply and ethernet card, DVD player and a printer. That was WITH good protection. The check really helped. The problem is that most surge protectors will block a surge that is several times the usual voltage, which might come from a transformer kicking in or out, but lightning can send 10's of thousands of volts through the line, arcing right past the surge protector.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Get one with an insurance policy. That will be the main thing of value. Also have homeowner's insurance. Even a fairly expensive unit won't do much with a close lightning strike, but if you get a check in the mail it will ease the pain. Last summer a strike 1 block from my house went right past several surge protectors and fried a TV, HT receiver, a wonderful old Carver stereo amp, a PC's power supply and ethernet card, DVD player and a printer. That was WITH good protection. The check really helped. The problem is that most surge protectors will block a surge that is several times the usual voltage, which might come from a transformer kicking in or out, but lightning can send 10's of thousands of volts through the line, arcing right past the surge protector.

What hassles if any did you have with either insurance? Did the surge suppressor insurance gave you a problem? Did they pay the home owners deductible or all.

 

[snickelfritz]

Line conditioners can mitigate differences in ground potential between cable, telephone and electric lines, but all devices connected to your system must pass through the conditioner for this to work.

This is normally not a problem, but some line conditioners have one-way flow through the satellite/cable I/O, and might not work correctly with dual-tuner receivers that "backfeed" a signal to other televisions in the house.

Be sure the line conditioner you choose has "bi-directional" satellite connections. (the latest Panamax units do)

 

[Rickster71]

Luckily I was in the habit of unplugging my stereo if I was going to be out of town for a few days just in case of such events...being anal paid off that day! Even if insurance was 100% for such damages, I'd rather have my equipment than the $$$, especially since my amps aren't made anymore and are getting too hard to find. I want them, not replacements or $.

I do the same thing. You just never know.
I also unplug all our computers, and printers.
This summer, my neighbors well head (well water) was hit. It's only a foot high, the lighting missed the much taller surrounding trees and our houses.
Go figure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can get a nice Line Conditioner on eBay.
Last time I looked, I saw some Panamax line conditioners on eBay for $50.
I've hooked up my Acurus 200X3 amps to my Panamax for over 10 years now.

 

[Fastnbulbous]

Right now I see the M5300-PM for $320, M5100-EX for $219, M4300-EX for $150. What model did you get for $50?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do the same thing. You just never know.
I also unplug all our computers, and printers.
This summer, my neighbors well head (well water) was hit. It's only a foot high, the lighting missed the much taller surrounding trees and our houses.
Go figure.

Would you recommend unplugging it from the outlet or just turn off the Surge Protector/Line Conditioner?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Right now I see the M5300-PM for $320, M5100-EX for $219, M4300-EX for $150. What model did you get for $50?

http://cgi.ebay.com/PANAMAX-SURGE-PROTECTOR-LINE-CONDITIONER-1000-Max-Plus_W0QQitemZ130165928444QQihZ003QQcategoryZ67781QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I bought the Panamax 1000 for $500 brand new about 10 years ago.

 

[zildjian]

Would you recommend unplugging it from the outlet or just turn off the Surge Protector/Line Conditioner?

Unplugging it from the outlet completely, not just turning off the power switch. Voltage as great as that from a lightning strike can jump across a broken circuit such as a power switch pretty easy.

 

[jostenmeat]

agreed with completely unplugging.

About insurance: though there aren't many posts regarding these situations, the bits I have read point out Tripp Lite as an excellent company. It seems they are good about helping the consumer out. It seems that most any other company makes it very difficult for the consumer- making them prove every little thing about how things were connected, and other points that I cannot recall at the moment. Essentially, making it near impossible to collect.

Otherwise I have a Monster HTS 3600 Mk II, I think its called. Was $150 Amazon. Everything is plugged into it. Some persons have said to plug my sub directly into the outlet for maximum current draw, but honestly I don't think I need anymore! However, the sub's cord would not be long enough as it is to reach the outlet anyways.

 

[no. 5]

Unplugging it from the outlet completely, not just turning off the power switch. Voltage as great as that from a lightning strike can jump across a broken circuit such as a power switch pretty easy.

I second that; lightning can travail miles through the air, the few millimeters between contacts on an open switch will serve no impediment.

 

[skizzerflake]

What hassles if any did you have with either insurance? Did the surge suppressor insurance gave you a problem? Did they pay the home owners deductible or all.

None. Allstate was very generous and when I explained that the Carver amp was old and a classic they increased the payout and gave me its original value (rather than the price of a 20 year old depreciated amp). Unfortunately, like most people, I assumed that I would never need it and didn't have suppressor insurance. I ended up pretty much breaking even on the deal. No complaints on the payout but since that incident, I have arranged power and plugs so I can unplug in an instant.