DLP, LCD, LCOS - Which one?

[elgringo]

Ok, I am finally looking to replace my analog Sony WEGA 36 w/ up to a 50" HDTV. I have read the article about upcoming technologies from the CES 2006show and I am more confused than ever. Here is my dilemma: my family room where the tv will go has a large sliding door opposite the tv, so a glass or protective cover is not good due to light and reflections. I need something that has good contrast and blacks. I am torn on which mfg to go with and which technology. Depth is not a concern since I have a great entertainment system, that has a bridge for expansion and a center console if I want to put the new tv on it. I won't be hanging on the wall. I sit 9 ft from the tv with seating off to the side about 5.5 ft away for those that don't steal my prime seating area.

I am leaning toward DLP, LCOS and LCD, but don't know what I should purchase. I do think that I want native 1080p so it is future ready.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[j_garcia]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19905

 

[runninkyle17]

None of them. Wait for SED to come out!!!!

 

[lbjazz]

First, forget about lcd. In general, they have tons of motion blur, aren't very bright, and have poor black level, contrast, etc. Just look at a shot of the winter olympics on one then look at a good dlp and you'll see a ton more detail in the white snow and ice than on the lcd.

A good dlp or LCoS is the way to go. As far as the 720p sets go, there isn't much noticeable difference between a good dlp such as a Samsung or Toshiba and a LCoS like the JCV's. I worked at a BB and our best seller was the 52" JVC HDILA, but I never hesitated to reccomend the Toshibas and Samsungs in most circustances.

You're really going to have to go out to the various stores in your area and take a look. However, try to make sure that what you're looking at on a particular set is really HD and that you're comparing the same source on each. This is very often a problem. At my BB store, for example, the standard feed we were running to all the HD's wasn't true HD. It was digital [if the set had a built in tuner (but not digital if it was plugged in using component cables, but then it was HD, but not digital] <-- (yes i'm aware that it is confusing, stupid, etc) but very often was degraded because it was split so much.

This being said, take a look around and you'll notice what you like and don't like. Take what the salesman says with a grain of salt. You'll see some tv's with good picture but you can't stand the way the set itself looks and vice versa. In the end, you'll get the set home, hook it up, have it calibrated (hopefully), and never know the difference between it and whatever else you were considering.

*Everything said here is from personal experience. If you think LCD's look great then more power to you. From my experience, they look awful compared to often equally priced DLP's and LCoS's.

 

[Jack Hammer]

If you think LCD's look great then more power to you. From my experience, they look awful compared to often equally priced DLP's and LCoS's.

I wouldn't say awful, but I agree with what lbjazz is saying. The LCD's I've looked at don't look as clear as the DLP or plasma screens when motion is involved. They seem a bit blurry to me when watching action scenes.

 

[JVC]

My choice would definately be the LCoS technology. The JVC HD-ILA and the Sony SXRD, look absolutely fabulous, hooked up to a High Def source. Standard def don't look as bad as some other sets either. My next tv is gonna be the JVC HD-ILA.

I agree with the idea of staying away from LCD. They all look fuzzy to me, and I don't like that. I do like the rear projected LCD though, such as the Sony XBR.

DLP's look good too. Though they aren't as bright as the LCoS sets. DLP's are also suseptible to the rainbow effect. Even if you don't see the rainbow, guests that come over to watch a movie with you, may see it.
Good luck with whatever you get! Keep us posted?

 

[BMXTRIX]

LCoS is nice, but I'm a fan of rear projection LCD if I am going the rear projection route. People seem rather clueless when they talk about motion blur with LCD and rear projection because it is not nearly the same as it is with flat panels as it is with rear projection. It has to do with chip size and response time, but LCD projection technology offers MUCH faster response time than flat panel displays do - so there is no more motion blur or smearing than there is with DLP. Keep in mind LCoS actually is a LCD/mirror hybrid that uses LCD as well. So, if you think LCD is poor, then saying LCoS is great is really inconsistent.

I might skip the LCD flat panel for a plasma, but I would get a LCD rear projection over a DLP for sure. And, if budget allowed, I might go with LCoS technology. Rainbows bug me and that kills the DLP deal for me right now... At least until LED lamps start to hit the market for DLP displays.

 

[JVC]

So, if you think LCD is poor, then saying LCoS is great is really inconsistent.

That's not true at all, when you look at an LCD tv, and the picture is fuzzy, and the picture on an LCoS is extremely sharp. When I've tried to watch an LCD tv, I have to walk away after about 3-4 minutes, rubbing my eyes. My eyes feel fatigued for awhile. This has happened with every LCD tv I've ever seen (except for the RPLCD).

As I said in my post above, the rear projected LCD's are another story. Until I saw the JVC HD-ILA, the best picture I'd seen on a tv was on the Sony 60" XBR rear projection LCD tv. It looked wonderful! But when I saw the JVC, it blew the Sony XBR away!

 

[kaiser_soze]

Too many people draw too many conclusions from a small number of samples. There is enormous variation in the image quality of LCD televisions, even within front projectors. Conventional rear-projection LCD is not the same as LCOS, btw, and positions the three panels orthogonally and use a prism to merge the three sources. As for motion blur, that is one are in which LCDs vary enormously. It depends on the hysteresis of the liquid cristal elements. The worst motion artifacts that I've ever seen, however, were on Mitsubishi's demo for the rear-projection DLP sets, using a special outputting 1080i or 1080p. Every DLP set that I've looked at has exhibited a very noticeable amount of smearing of the images around individual pixels. I've never been able to identify what would cause that, though, and am inclined to think that it is the result of excessive mpeg compression in the source. It seems that the retail outlets just don't know how to find a decent source to display the inherent sharpness of the latest 1080 sets. I didn't look at the equipment that was used with the Mitsubishi demo, but it was probably a PC with a video card capable of outputing 1080p via a DVI/HDMI port. But there was evident analog noise (snow) in the picture, which can only mean that the source started out as analog video, and together with the apparent fact that it is over-compressed as stored on the playing equipment, really makes me shake my head. The smearing around the individual pixels was compounded by motion to the point that I couldn't stand to look at it.

It may be that the artifacts that I've always seen on DLP are the result of the practice of time-multiplexing each of the little mirrors so that the number of physical mirrors is less than the number of pixels, by a ratio of 1:2 according to what I have read. But having said that, I still think it is more likely that it is the result of conversion of 720 to 1080. The errors that occur in those conversions are compounded by motion. This may also explain a lot of the motion artifacts that others have seen with LCD sets. But it is important that unless you have an outboard processor to do the upconversion, the TV set be able to do the upconversion in a way that does not cause the lines of contrast in the image to jump back and forth between adjacent screen pixels. Freedom from motion artifacts is something that you should inspect carefully no matter what type of set you by, and you should examine it when the picture is being delivered a signal that is not 1080 and has to be upconverted, since the imminent conversion to digital is not going to do away with 480 as a digital format, and certainly will not do away with 720. Ideally, the salespeople should demonstrate to you how well the set handles these conversions, giving you a demonstration for each signal format. But they typically can't even give you a good demonstration with a good 1080 source.

 

[JVC]

According to what I've read, there are no 1080p sources, at this time. I've heard that if you buy a 1080p set now, that by the time there are 1080p sources, you'll need a new tv anyway. I've also read that about 99.9% of the new 1080p sets won't even accept a 1080p signal. It's all upconversion right now. I'll have to see how good the upconversion looks......

 

[Naves74]

I recently purchased a samsung DLP set and I love it!! I have been doing my research for over a year before I bought it and had been demoing all kinds of TV's for me LCD just wasnt an option. The sacrafice of video quality for physical size just isnt worth it for me. For me it was between Lcos and DLP both look exceptional however, when I did my research I found that lots of people were having problems with the JVC sets.

I have found and I bet people will back me up on this one. Your best bet is to go watch the exact same DVD, HD program, or whatever you want on what ever sets you want to demo. Buying a display is a very personal choice that has to be judged by your eyes only.

 

[BMXTRIX]

That's not true at all, when you look at an LCD tv, and the picture is fuzzy, and the picture on an LCoS is extremely sharp. When I've tried to watch an LCD tv, I have to walk away after about 3-4 minutes, rubbing my eyes. My eyes feel fatigued for awhile. This has happened with every LCD tv I've ever seen (except for the RPLCD).

I was ONLY talking about RPLCD - Not flat panel LCD.

I recognize the failings of flat panel LCDs - but people interchange flat panel and rear projection LCD far to often, and usually when someone asks for differences between LCOS, LCD, and DLP - they aren't actually asking about LCD flat panels - but LCD rear projection.

When I look at a rear projection LCD the picture typically is very sharp and when I see them next to DLP I think they are often sharper than the DLPs that they are sitting next to. Or maybe it is just better color or something else... Since I'm not buying one I really only do more of a cursory look at both technologies.

They most definitely need a different naming convention for flat panel LCD and rear projection LCD. If people are getting the two confused here, imagine how bad the rest of the world is about it!?!

 

[ZoFo]

I went through this delima last year

And after looking at all of the new technologies out there I ended up getting a Sony CRT RPTV; the digital sets just were not quite there yet.

I had my set ISF Calibrated, lined the inside with a black material that asorbed excess light around the Red/Green/Blue bulbs and took of the protective cover; it's the best & most accurate display that I or any of my friends have ever seen, the contrast and black levels have to be seen to be belived! It also has the avantage of showing 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i in it's native resolution without upscaling/downscaling the image.

It does have it's disavantages though, it's "angled viewing" is not near that of a digital display and it's big and heavy. The 57" is selling for $2,000 now.

My next set will be digital and I am starting to look at them for my bedroom but I am not seeing any big improvements in the technologies compared to last year; maybe next year?

 

[Reorx]

Personally,
I am waiting till either late fall or early 2007 before buying any kind of HDTV.
There are way to many changes going on in the industry.
HDMI, DLP, LCD, blue-ray, HD DVD, just to name a few.

Being cutting edge is great, and is where I want to be.
Being bleeding edge is a waste of money, and is more for ego boosting among friends.

Think of all the early adopters of HDTV, and how their going to be screwed because their HDTV doesnt support HDCP....

Reorx

 

[Dan Driscoll]

If depth is not an issue and picture quality is your top concern, a CRT based RPTV is still the way to go. Digital displays have improved considerably the last few years, but for for overall PQ a properly set-up and calibrated CRT based set still rulz.

You might also want to consider a front projection system, rather than an RPTV.

BTW, I would recommend getting black-out curtains for that patio door, regardless of what technology path you decide to follow.

 

[JVC]

Naves74.........
You're right............The first generation sets did have a problem. Jvc recalled them, and fixed them for free. So, there really wasn't a problem afterall. I haven't heard of any problems with the second generation sets.

 

[corey]

Think of all the early adopters of HDTV, and how their going to be screwed because their HDTV doesnt support HDCP....

Reorx

Yes, but I've been watching my 51" HD RPTV for 3 years now. With any luck, it will last until some of this stuff settles down.

 

[corey]

didn't look at the equipment that was used with the Mitsubishi demo, but it was probably a PC with a video card capable of outputing 1080p via a DVI/HDMI port. But there was evident analog noise (snow) in the picture, which can only mean that the source started out as analog video, and together with the apparent fact that it is over-compressed as stored on the playing equipment, really makes me shake my head. The smearing around the individual pixels was compounded by motion to the point that I couldn't stand to look at it.

To say that you couldn't stand to look at a Mitsubishi 1080p HDTV is just silly. Maybe it was less that perfect, & that's something to talk about; but I've seen their 1080p TV, and the image is at least quite nice, I'd rate it damn fine.

 

[jcsprankle]

HP Microdisplay TV's accept 1080p signals

According to what I've read, there are no 1080p sources, at this time. I've heard that if you buy a 1080p set now, that by the time there are 1080p sources, you'll need a new tv anyway. I've also read that about 99.9% of the new 1080p sets won't even accept a 1080p signal. It's all upconversion right now. I'll have to see how good the upconversion looks......

JVC is right about this one...1080p sources are hard to find but they will come. Also correct about most TVs not being able to accept 1080p signals on their inputs.

One exception to this that I have seen is the HP Microdisplay DLP TVs. I work for HP (not in the Entertainment department that makes these TVs) and they had the 65" on display at the visitors center. This TV is gorgeous and it can accept 1080p signals on its component and HDMI interfaces.

Check it out: http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?storeName=storefronts&landing=&category=flat_panel_tvs&orderflow=1&a1=Type&v1=MDTV&product_code=L1737A%23ABA&catLevel=2

 

[beyondesign]

About 2 weeks ago the wife and I snapped up a 56" Sammy DLP (same model as Naves74). For the price, I don't think we could have done much better. The rainbow effect is evident but tends to manifest itself only when we're looking at anything but the screen ... which isn't often There are instances where compression rears its ugly mug (dark, almost black and super rich colors) but I'm betting the DVD player (Philips Q50) is more at fault than the TV. However, I haven't had a chance to tweak so maybe things will clear up a bit.

Anyhow, if you're in the north west (or anywhere really), watch OneCall.com. We got a decent deal and their customer service/support is outstanding.