DIY Speaker Cable Face Off!

P

philh

Full Audioholic
I would love to see an audio review of maybe the "best" cable and "worst" cable.
 
K

Kobus

Audiophyte
If I want to bi-amp a high-end speaker, would it then be neccesary to use 12 X cat5's per speaker (6 from each amp), or how many would be sufficient ?.
 
M

Marroug

Audiophyte
Another CAT5 to try...

First of all, thanks for putting all the data out there after what seems to have been a very time consuming, but fruitful, test.

You may wish to try a different CAT5 setup. It is will most likely change (for the better) some of the short falls of your CAT5 v4 (namely C), but is even more work to make...

Basically, you strip off the other (blue in your case) insulator, but keep the twisted pairs twisted. Then braid the multiple twisted pairs together. After that, just at the ends for connection to the banana plugs, separate the individual twisted pairs into their individual conductors. Convienently, each twisted pair is maked with a colored wire and a "white" or "marked" colored wire. Combine all the colored wires together, and all the "white" wires together... (okay guys, no race jokes... thanks...). This will make the CAT5 act as it does in it's use in ethernet: each conductor having a return conductor twisted around it. This makes for a very consistant (and low) C!

So it's a lot of work, but it makes the CAT5 DYI speaker cable actually work well. Give it try...

Travis Gregg
http://www.HATProductions.com

PS... I'll try to post a pic for reference...
 
P

philh

Full Audioholic
Marroug said:
First of all, thanks for putting all the data out there after what seems to have been a very time consuming, but fruitful, test.

You may wish to try a different CAT5 setup. It is will most likely change (for the better) some of the short falls of your CAT5 v4 (namely C), but is even more work to make...

Basically, you strip off the other (blue in your case) insulator, but keep the twisted pairs twisted. Then braid the multiple twisted pairs together. After that, just at the ends for connection to the banana plugs, separate the individual twisted pairs into their individual conductors. Convienently, each twisted pair is maked with a colored wire and a "white" or "marked" colored wire. Combine all the colored wires together, and all the "white" wires together... (okay guys, no race jokes... thanks...). This will make the CAT5 act as it does in it's use in ethernet: each conductor having a return conductor twisted around it. This makes for a very consistant (and low) C!

So it's a lot of work, but it makes the CAT5 DYI speaker cable actually work well. Give it try...

Travis Gregg
http://www.HATProductions.com

PS... I'll try to post a pic for reference...

That's how I made mine, it looks kewl, it was inexpensive, and I could tell a difference from the decades old zip cord. Fun experiment
 
pikers

pikers

Audioholic
gene said:
The measurements are directly responsible for the sonic signature a cable imposes on a particular system or the lack thereof with the preface that well designed cables are sonically indistinguishable.


Since that's wrong, why bother with this at all? How did this get to be such a long thread? Let's have fun discussing what test instruments said, not what anyone heard. :rolleyes:

Irrelevant.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
pikers said:
Since that's wrong, why bother with this at all? How did this get to be such a long thread? Let's have fun discussing what test instruments said, not what anyone heard. :rolleyes:

Irrelevant.

What is wrong? You know this because??? Evidence please, not fluff.
No one heard cables of equivalent size, period. But, we can entertain your evidence, if you want. Link, citation, anything will do. Thanks. Oh, don't bother with stories. I have lots of stories. Santa was good to me last christmass ;)
 
Mudcat

Mudcat

Senior Audioholic
Marroug said:
You may wish to try a different CAT5 setup. It is will most likely change (for the better) some of the short falls of your CAT5 v4 (namely C), but is even more work to make...

Basically, you strip off the other (blue in your case) insulator, but keep the twisted pairs twisted. Then braid the multiple twisted pairs together. After that, just at the ends for connection to the banana plugs, separate the individual twisted pairs into their individual conductors. Convienently, each twisted pair is maked with a colored wire and a "white" or "marked" colored wire. Combine all the colored wires together, and all the "white" wires together... (okay guys, no race jokes... thanks...). This will make the CAT5 act as it does in it's use in ethernet: each conductor having a return conductor twisted around it. This makes for a very consistant (and low) C!
This sound like the Chris VenHaus braided CAT5 cable, that John Risch has orgasms over. I think it has been tested by Gene a long time ago, which is why I did not make this version.
 
P

philh

Full Audioholic
Mudcat said:
This sound like the Chris VenHaus braided CAT5 cable, that John Risch has orgasms over. I think it has been tested by Gene a long time ago, which is why I did not make this version.
If you'd be interested in testing it, I'd make a copy of my CAT5 braided cable. Just removed the outer sheathing, braided three cables together and soldered the ends. It was fun, it's pretty, it was cheap (excess unused cable), and best of all it works :)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
philh said:
If you'd be interested in testing it, I'd make a copy of my CAT5 braided cable. Just removed the outer sheathing, braided three cables together and soldered the ends. It was fun, it's pretty, it was cheap (excess unused cable), and best of all it works :)

Is that 3 pairs of cables? 3 pos and 3 neg? What ga is a single wire?
 
P

philh

Full Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
Is that 3 pairs of cables? 3 pos and 3 neg? What ga is a single wire?
Off the top of my head, think it's 24g, and it should be 4 pairs, 4 pos & 4 neg
 
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pikers

pikers

Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
What is wrong? You know this because??? Evidence please, not fluff.
No one heard cables of equivalent size, period. But, we can entertain your evidence, if you want. Link, citation, anything will do. Thanks. Oh, don't bother with stories. I have lots of stories. Santa was good to me last christmass ;)
...It's been heard countless times?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
pikers said:
...It's been heard countless times?

No, it has been imagined countless times, yes. A perception is not necessarily reality.
I see water bending steel pipes all the time. Is that reality? Or, an illusion?
People claim all sorts of things that are not real. Human senses are very gullible.
 
pikers

pikers

Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
No, it has been imagined countless times, yes. A perception is not necessarily reality.
I see water bending steel pipes all the time. Is that reality? Or, an illusion?
People claim all sorts of things that are not real. Human senses are very gullible.
Absolutely. Another source of gullibility (or arrogance, really), is on the part of pure objectivists (scientists) that place unrealistic and biased tests in front of you to make you fail.

Truth is, I don't care which cable is in place. That immediately removes your theory about imagining things, because I could care less which one sounds better.

Since the test is easily repeatable (I've owned these interconnects for years), I could easily tell you which one was in place, in use with my equipment.

You're the plaintiff; you prove me wrong!
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
pikers said:
Absolutely. Another source of gullibility (or arrogance, really), is on the part of pure objectivists (scientists) that place unrealistic and biased tests in front of you to make you fail.
pikers said:
Biased tests? How so. Please elaborate but try to make me understand. No one wants you to fail. That doesn't advance knowledge.

Truth is, I don't care which cable is in place. That immediately removes your theory about imagining things, because I could care less which one sounds better.


Ah, you still don't get it. Bias is subconscious, no on/off switch, cannot be willed away. So, you have no idea but your bias does.

Since the test is easily repeatable (I've owned these interconnects for years), I could easily tell you which one was in place, in use with my equipment.

Your flawed testing is repeatable, or audibl differences exists with bias controlled protocols? If the latter, please cite those tests.


You're the plaintiff; you prove me wrong!

This isn't a court of law. You have the burden, as the claimant of miracles, you prove that you are right. That is how it is done in the court of science.
 
pikers

pikers

Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
pikers said:
Absolutely. Another source of gullibility (or arrogance, really), is on the part of pure objectivists (scientists) that place unrealistic and biased tests in front of you to make you fail.
pikers said:
Biased tests? How so. Please elaborate but try to make me understand. No one wants you to fail. That doesn't advance knowledge.

Truth is, I don't care which cable is in place. That immediately removes your theory about imagining things, because I could care less which one sounds better.


Ah, you still don't get it. Bias is subconscious, no on/off switch, cannot be willed away. So, you have no idea but your bias does.

Since the test is easily repeatable (I've owned these interconnects for years), I could easily tell you which one was in place, in use with my equipment.

Your flawed testing is repeatable, or audibl differences exists with bias controlled protocols? If the latter, please cite those tests.


You're the plaintiff; you prove me wrong!

This isn't a court of law. You have the burden, as the claimant of miracles, you prove that you are right. That is how it is done in the court of science.

You really have issues. Miracles? The fact that I could pick my cabling out in a DBT with familiar gear makes me, what, a sorceror?

Your blind faith in scientific testing is admirable, as it removes the need to think. Gotta appreciate the simpicity there. However, it seems you get short-circuited when someone comes along to say "hey, I'll take your test, and I'll pass with flying colors." Then of course my testing is "flawed" somehow, because of course it's impossible to distinguish?

Taking two well-constructed interconnects that have known audible properties to their owner, using gear that has known audible properties, and hearing a difference, is not complex. This is very easy to do, and I wonder why you can't see that. I don't need to ses them, or know the brand, or whatever. Those things may affect a test, I agree, but not here.

To say there's no on/off switch for bias; this intrigues me. I assume you mean for "preference." You'd be wrong. Anyone willing to remain objective in the interest of science is easily willed into being. No more difficult than being a judge. We shouldn't care about anything but taking the steps required to improve your system, based on the specific gear owned. Saying it cannot be willed away is just a theory (like evolution) only far more assumptive...

Any two interconnects might sound similar or different, but once you are aware of those differences it's a repeatable known quantity.

Welcome....To the real world.... ;)
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
pikers said:
mtrycrafts said:



You really have issues. Miracles? The fact that I could pick my cabling out in a DBT with familiar gear makes me, what, a sorceror?


Well, so far you have an unfounded claim. Evidence you have zero. You passing a DBT? Funny.


Your blind faith in scientific testing is admirable, as it removes the need to think.

Yep shows you how much you know about science and testing, right.


However, it seems you get short-circuited when someone comes along to say "hey, I'll take your test, and I'll pass with flying colors." Then of course my testing is "flawed" somehow, because of course it's impossible to distinguish?

Many have tried, none have passed. So why do you think you are so different? And, yes, your protocol is flawed.



Taking two well-constructed interconnects that have known audible properties to their owner


Hellow? those known properties are in another dimension, that of the mind, not reality.

using gear that has known audible properties, and hearing a difference, is not complex.


Same dimension, same reality, a singular one ion the mind alone.


This is very easy to do, and I wonder why you can't see that.

Oh, can see very well. History is full of such claims and zero successes.


I don't need to ses them, or know the brand, or whatever. Those things may affect a test, I agree, but not here.

But not here??? You have an immunity pass from someone???



To say there's no on/off switch for bias; this intrigues me. I assume you mean for "preference."

No, bias. Preference is not a bias.


Any two interconnects might sound similar or different, but once you are aware of those differences it's a repeatable known quantity.

Actually, you cannot be aware when bias is the method of awareness. But, you can try. Many have tried, none have prevailed.
 
J

JeepFan

Audiophyte
Bi-Wiring using the Cat 5 V5 method

Mudcat,

Hopefully you are still looking in on this thread every now and then. Just wanted to say thanks for doing all the work to let us all know how it works and how it's done.

I was building some cable for friends and family as gifts and my dad has some speakers that are bi-wireable. Would it be a good idea to braid six twisted pairs together to make the 2 sets of wires together for a Bi-Wire Cat 5 V5? This would be for ease of running cables and would take quite as much Tech Flex.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

CJ
 
D

deviousz

Audiophyte
parts

Mudcat:

So sounds like the v3 way is the easiest to assemble and finish. I'm trying to figure out what exactly I'll need. This is it right?:

Techflex sleeves
GLS plugs
heat shrink tubing

There seem to be many types of techflex sleeving. Which ones? Which sleeves were used as well?

Thanks!!
 
Mudcat

Mudcat

Senior Audioholic
JeepFan said:
I was building some cable for friends and family as gifts and my dad has some speakers that are bi-wireable. Would it be a good idea to braid six twisted pairs together to make the 2 sets of wires together for a Bi-Wire Cat 5 V5? This would be for ease of running cables and would take quite as much Tech Flex.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

CJ
Don't bother bi-wiring, 99.9% of the time there is no benefit, Bi-amping, that's another story, but will you be using the B speakers on your amp or seperate amps. So, just use 8 inch jumpers, one end connected to the other speaker connector with the other wire and a speaker connector at the opposite end. See attached picture.

If you check out my latest concoctions, they're pretty enough to not need techflex:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15282

Post number 10.

deviousz said:
So sounds like the v3 way is the easiest to assemble and finish. I'm trying to figure out what exactly I'll need. This is it right?:

Techflex sleeves
GLS plugs
heat shrink tubing

There seem to be many types of techflex sleeving. Which ones? Which sleeves were used as well?

See my response above. But to actually answer, Techflex is all the same material (except for speciality junk like mylar, or high heat applications), so just pick something that will fit and with looks you like.

Parts Express now sells large diameter cable boots
 

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D

deviousz

Audiophyte
Excuse my total ignorance here, but from this page at Parts Express it looks like there are a few different types of Techflex:

flexopet
clean cut
flexo wrap

And regarding sizes, I have no idea what will fit. I'd like to put together either the v1 or the v3, since you mentioned that the v3 is easier.

If we can reference the picture you posted so we can spell this out for me it would be greatly appreciated.



#1: Techflex right? But what type & size for v1 or v3?
#2: What are these?
#3: Again, Techflex right? But what type & size for v1 or v3?
#4: What are these?

TIA, apparently I have no DIY skillz....
 

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