DIY Speaker Cable Face Off!

[Mudcat]

How do we know these are facts, proven? Maybe the originator made a mistake someplace> Maybe his instruments were not calibrated, or ceritfied? How do we know anything?

Because I said so. So there.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Roughly how long did it take to braid the Cat 5 cables, Mudcat? I've wanted to try that, but I've always been held back by my profound laziness.

 

[Mudcat]

It took about 2 or 3 minutes to make/braid the CAT5 V1 - V4, and about 15 minutes to make the V5 as pictured.

Do you know how long that is to sombody with AD...


Uh what were we talking about?

 

[Mudcat]

Actually, about 1 hour for each type V1 through V5. That includes stripping all the wires for, and attaching the connectors.

 

[Dan Banquer]

DIY Article

Nice job Mudcat! Have you done any audibility testing?
d.b.

 

[Mudcat]

Nice job Mudcat! Have you done any audibility testing?
d.b.

If this means did I hook them up to a speaker to see if they actually worked, yes.

If you are asking if I compared them to something else, again yes (no audible differences detected when compared to one another when hooked up to Mirage Onmi 7s play test tones in mono).

If you are asking did I listen to them and hear hallelujahs or halitosis or Halifax Nova Scotia, no.

 

[Dan Banquer]

DIY Speaker Cable

Audibility for Halitosis?
You know Mudcat, every now and then you give yourself away and we once again realize you're a mechanical engineer. In any case, have you tried treating the cables with Listerine?

d.b.

 

[Mudcat]

OOoommmph.

And Mudcat takes one in the groin.

"I don't care what universe you're from, that's gotta hurt."

 

[Mudcat]

In any case, have you tried treating the cables with Listerine?

Naw, can't stand those mediciny smelling cables. I use scope, higher alcohol content. Cleans em up nice, and I can drink the effluent.

 

[Leprkon]

Mudcat, the burning question remains- which set did you leave on your system ?

 

[tsteves]

Mudcat
"no audible differences detected when compared to one another when hooked up to Mirage Onmi 7s"
As much as I hate to say it, that's not a real test. Don't you have any "real" speakers?

 

[Mudcat]

Mudcat, the burning question remains- which set did you leave on your system ?

CAT5-V3 for FR(A) & FL(A) & PR & PL , Lowes 10/4 for FR(B) & FL(B) & C, and Sound King V2 for the SR/SL/RSR/RSL.

Thats 11 speakers, all driven by seperate amps (except for the two presence speakers), talk about wall to wall sound. The room is big though, 22 x 35 x 9 feet high.


http://www.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2380

As much as I hate to say it, that's not a real test.

You are entirely correct. I hope Mr. DBT standard (mtrycrafts) does not take me to task, or I'll have to get Shinerman to pull my finger when I'm in his (mtrycrafts) vacinity.

Don't you have any "real" speakers?

HeHeHeHe Oh man I'm laughing so hard I'm going to pee in my pants.
Didn't you start a thread about how great your B{l}ose Acoutomass sounds?

 

[Kevin Haskins]

For DIY cables I think it would be of value to show an accurate build time. You know what they say.... time is money and unless you enjoy braiding cable it can be a factor in what someone might decide to use.

One other factor to consider is the ease of termination. I find quality terminations that are easy to use, durable and fit well on my binding post are a very important factor in what I use in my own system. It is unfortunate that there isn't a real standard in the industry with regards to binding post size. Not all termination chores are the same depending on the cable so that might factor into the build-time.

One other factor is the "coolness" factor. Cosmetics do have some importance also for the same reason it makes a difference with speakers.... because they do go in your living space. You don't have to spend a fortune for these features and I really like the Canare cables for looks & feel. The Japanese really know how to get those little details right. The fat Canare stuff (4S11) is a buck a foot or under and I'd pay the extra $10 or so over the cost of cheap lamp cord even if you go by the assumption that they all sound the same.

Great work though..... I'm just giving my 0.02 about factors that I find important when fiddling with cable, not sharp-shooting you.

Just a note.... I sell cables (including the Canare)so consider this my disclosure of commercial interest.


Kevin Haskins
www.diycable.com

 

[Mudcat]

For DIY cables I think it would be of value to show an accurate build time. You know what they say.... time is money and unless you enjoy braiding cable it can be a factor in what someone might decide to use.

That is just not possible, other than to say that the cables that actually required work to make testable (the CAT 5, and Sound King based cables) all took less than 1 hour as pictured. Cables based on a fixed geometry (Lowes, Alpha, Extension Cord, Carol) took less than 20 minutes to make testable. I usually made them when I was suppose to be watching the kids (isn't that why DVDs and VCRs were invented). So I'd start, and stop, and start, and stop, and start, and stop, dad, could you rewind the DVD (they're only 2 and 5), and start, etc..

When I say "make testable", that means twist, braid, and/or just terminate with the banana plugs shown. It does not mean added a bunch of cosmetics like Techflex sleeves and heat shrink tubing as shown in the last picture of the report. That could add up to two more hours for a pair of cables.

One other factor to consider is the ease of termination. I find quality terminations that are easy to use, durable and fit well on my binding post are a very important factor in what I use in my own system. It is unfortunate that there isn't a real standard in the industry with regards to binding post size. Not all termination chores are the same depending on the cable so that might factor into the build-time.

I agree. That is why I used the GLS locking banana plugs. I originally bought them from RAM. The first thing I noticed was the thickness of the collar and the diameter of the two set screws per plug. Both thick and beefy. Yeah the locking system is not as smooth as it could be, but it works well. Plus they handle 10 AWG easily. Buy bananas from AR or Monster (at least what they sell at BB or CC) and try and shove 10 awg into them - you can't. With the GLS (try eBay - $57 plus $5 s&h for 20 plugs), all you need to do is strip off about 1/4 inch, the aft set screw is for strain relief - it can handle Sound King 10 AWG plus the insulation.

One other factor is the "coolness" factor. Cosmetics do have some importance also for the same reason it makes a difference with speakers.... because they do go in your living space. You don't have to spend a fortune for these features and I really like the Canare cables for looks & feel. The Japanese really know how to get those little details right. The fat Canare stuff (4S11) is a buck a foot or under and I'd pay the extra $10 or so over the cost of cheap lamp cord even if you go by the assumption that they all sound the same.

Check out the last picture. Two layers of Techflex braid on the cable, and two layers on each lead. The leads are a little long because I had the heat set a little too high and melted about 6 inches of braid, so I just cut it back.

 

[Kevin Haskins]

That is just not possible, other than to say that the cables that actually required work to make testable (the CAT 5, and Sound King based cables) all took less than 1 hour as pictured. Cables based on a fixed geometry (Lowes, Alpha, Extension Cord, Carol) took less than 20 minutes to make testable. I usually made them when I was suppose to be watching the kids (isn't that why DVDs and VCRs were invented). So I'd start, and stop, and start, and stop, and start, and stop, dad, could you rewind the DVD (they're only 2 and 5), and start, etc..
.

That is valuable information though. You spent 20 minutes - 1 hour on all cables for the basic termination. All terminations were done with the GLS banana (which I'm going to Ebay some of those... thanks) so that solves some of the headache. One thing you will notice over time is that these mechanically crimped on connectors will oxidize (the copper not the connector). My old bulk Monster cable from college is green to the core. If you solder & cover and use careful preparation it will help slow the oxidation. When we terminate cable we solder all connections and use a sealant over the bare copper to prevent long-term oxidation of the stripped copper wire. How important that is to you is an individual thing....

You spent another 1-2 hrs making a cosmetically nice cable. I think you will agree that at a minimum a person is going to have 1-2 hours into researching, sourcing, & building a set of similar cables. The material cost for let's say a 8ft pair of cables from $35 (no cosmetics and cheapest per foot you have listed with the GLS bananas) to around $80 for the more expensive cables listed with cosmetics (throwing out the Carol & the Monster which are much more expensive). I sell the Carnare 4S11 prettied up with fancy cosmetics, Cardas terminations and a molded Y-termination for $70 an 8ft pair that is FAR better cosmetically & mechanically than anything a DIYer will be able to achieve. Now when I was in college that might have sounded like a fair trade-off (I just used the bare wire non-terminated so it saved me a lot of time & money ). Now days my time is far more valuable and the average audiophile is middle-aged professional making well over $100,000/yr (statistics from Stereophile's average subscriber). For most people they are better off buying a set of terminated cables from a respectable online supplier (you have named a bunch in your speaker cable shoot-off). They are cheaper than DIY when you consider all the cost and the quality of the finished product.

I agree. That is why I used the GLS locking banana plugs. I originally bought them from RAM. The first thing I noticed was the thickness of the collar and the diameter of the two set screws per plug. Both thick and beefy. Yeah the locking system is not as smooth as it could be, but it works well. Plus they handle 10 AWG easily. Buy bananas from AR or Monster (at least what they sell at BB or CC) and try and shove 10 awg into them - you can't. With the GLS (try eBay - $57 plus $5 s&h for 20 plugs), all you need to do is strip off about 1/4 inch, the aft set screw is for strain relief - it can handle Sound King 10 AWG plus the insulation.

Price for a 8 pack that most people are going to need is $30 shipped from your listed supplier. Add to that the cost for the cable, heatshrink, TechFlex & tools and you will come up with a complete cost for each cable which is meaningful data.

Check out the last picture. Two layers of Techflex braid on the cable, and two layers on each lead. The leads are a little long because I had the heat set a little too high and melted about 6 inches of braid, so I just cut it back.

Wrap the TechFlex in electrical tape up to the point where you shrink down the heatshrink. This protects the Heatshrink from the direct heat of the heat gun. Remove it after you are done shrinking the heatshrink. I also have some high temp TechFlex which can withstand the higher heat but I still use the tape method just to be sure.

 

[tsteves]

Mudcat:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsteves
"Don't you have any "real" speakers?
Mudcat:
"HeHeHeHe Oh man I'm laughing so hard I'm going to pee in my pants.
Didn't you start a thread about how great your B{l}ose Acoutomass sounds?"

Jeez Mudcat,
I was pretty much kidding about those mars attacks spaceship speakers. (hey maybe I have the wrong models in mind)
I thought the review was very good, and obviously a lot of work. I'm not busting on you at all. I do find it a bad procedure that when everything else gets a listening test, cables don't. It makes the crazies stir.

On the other hand, I don't appreciate you suggesting I ever said anything at all about Bose speakers.
THAT, I find offensive. You must have meant someone else.

 

[Mudcat]

Jeez Mudcat,
I was pretty much kidding about those mars attacks spaceship speakers. (hey maybe I have the wrong models in mind)
I thought the review was very good, and obviously a lot of work. I'm not busting on you at all. I do find it a bad procedure that when everything else gets a listening test, cables don't. It makes the crazies stir.

On the other hand, I don't appreciate you suggesting I ever said anything at all about Bose speakers.
THAT, I find offensive. You must have meant someone else.

My most sincere apologies. The Mirage's were purchased to replace some old SONY towers that I found at a garage sale several year ago. They have a very high WAF. As for how they sound, they sound like speakers, what else do you need to know My hearing is sufficiently shot

..the average audiophile is middle-aged professional making well over $100,000/yr (statistics from Stereophile's average subscriber).

Come on, you believe that? When ever I fill out those cards I put down well over 1 million dollars. (I am a GS-14 Step 6 Mechanical Engineer for DHS)

 

[tsteves]

Mudcat
Actually from what I have heard the Mirages are very good. Especially considering size and WAF.
The only things I would have done differently* would be to weigh capacitance a bit lower and not even consider cost.
* Ok, I might have just stayed in bed watching spongebob squarepants rather than braiding, stripping, soldering, measuring, writing everything down and putting it in nice tables and explaining everything in a great review. But that's just me.
Really nice job, and I thank you.
ps - Do you ever see little green aliens running around the floor?

 

[Thucydes]

First off, I just wanted to say that your article was excellent! I've been playing with the idea of upgrading my cables for a while now, but being the cheapskate that I am, I never acted on it.... until now. So thanks a bunch for your hard work and time spent educating the uneducated.

I just finished up a set of 5 foot long CAT 5 v5 cables that I terminated with gold spring banana plugs. Now I know that you aren't big into the subjective listening test (and for good reason... too many reviewers get away with flowery praise/negative comments without backing it up with any data) and I sure as hell wasn't expecting to hear an improvement, but I actually noticed a substantially more open and detailed sound, especially in the upper frequencies. Long story short - I'm happy with an upgrade that cost nothing, thanks to you!

Anyways, I had a few questions for you:

1. The "test" cables were made with regular blue sheathed CAT 5 cable (not CAT 5 e or CAT 6). Now for the "finished" cables, my friend and I bought some gray sheathed CAT 5 e cable (it is marked as suitable for risers, were the blue sheathed CAT 5 e is marked for ducts, etc.. and the gray stuff was half the price). Would there be any measureable benefits of getting CAT 6 cable or the blue sheathed CAT 5 e cable?

2. I am still a little confused as to which configuration the twisted pairs should be in. I have them like this right now:

++ +- --
++ +- --
++ +- --
++ +- --

twisted pairs and then braided together. But how did you have them? Did you do it like this:

+- +- +-
+- +- +-
+- +- +-
+- +- +-

and then twist the pairs and braid them?

Thanks for you time and keep up the awesome work,


Kyle

P.S. I sent you (Mudcat) a PM as well

 

[tsteves]

All twisted pairs should be "+-".