DIY beats commercial subs anytime (thread split from other commercial sub threads)

[clouso]

so there is no commercial sub that is worth it and my only option is DIY and i would be a total idiot to buy a sub1 or dual sb13-plus...ok thx.

 

[gmichael]

so there is no commercial sub that is worth it and my only option is DIY and i would be a total idiot to buy a sub1 or dual sb13-plus...ok thx.

I don't remember seeing any post that said that.

Until this one.

 

[clouso]

I don't remember seeing any post that said that.

Until this one.

haha you can read between the lines no??....according to the posts the only good thing is DIY.

 

[templemaners]

so there is no commercial sub that is worth it and my only option is DIY and i would be a total idiot to buy a sub1 or dual sb13-plus...ok thx.

That was not my argument at all. There are plenty of good commercially made subs out there. I just think once you get into the higher price ranges, if you have the right parts, skills, and design, you can make something with a better performance/cost ratio.

 

[Matt34]

so there is no commercial sub that is worth it and my only option is DIY and i would be a total idiot to buy a sub1 or dual sb13-plus...ok thx.

Value(worth) is an individual thing. DIY lets people get to a performance level they might not be able to acheive commerically for a varity of reasons. Commerical subs will always have there place with the majority of people but you are addressing "Audioholics" where a lot of us place performance/dollar at the top of our lists.

 

[clouso]

That was not my argument at all. There are plenty of good commercially made subs out there. I just think once you get into the higher price ranges, if you have the right parts, skills, and design, you can make something with a better performance/cost ratio.

i know you can build very good and even better subs..but if you read reviews soon about..example the new paradigm sub2 and that those reviews state that it is the best sub on the market you guys will come here and denie it and say hey i can have a better sub for less!...come on now dont ever tell me that svs or paradigm dont build good stuff... not everyone want to build his own sub and have the time to do it...that is my point...

 

[templemaners]

i know you can build very good and even better subs..but if you read reviews soon about..example the new paradigm sub2 and that those reviews state that it is the best sub on the market you guys will come here and denie it and say hey i can have a better sub for less!...come on now dont ever tell me that svs or paradigm dont build good stuff... not everyone want to build his own sub and have the time to do it...that is my point...

For as much as it costs, I would expect and demand it to be a superb performer. Still doesn't change the fact that I probably wouldn't look twice at it if I was in the market for $7500 worth of subwoofer.

 

[Warpdrv]

OK, I can't cr@p on the Paradigm Sub 1 or 2, as I would love to own a couple or 3 myself.... they are gorgeous, I have inspected and touched them myself. They are truly spectacular.... but for $7500 each I can guarantee you I can build an outperforming sub for far less money. Say $4K

In fact - now I am on a mission ----- My next build will incorporate Dual 18" LMS's dual opposed, top and bottom firing drivers - that I have no doubt will have more excursion and still provide me the same characteristics - Inert cabinets with extreme output...

Let see what I can come up with...

 

[WmAx]

OK, I can't cr@p on the Paradigm Sub 1 or 2, as I would love to own a couple or 3 myself.... they are gorgeous, I have inspected and touched them myself. They are truly spectacular.... but for $7500 each I can guarantee you I can build an outperforming sub for far less money. Say $4K

In fact - now I am on a mission ----- My next build will incorporate Dual 18" LMS's dual opposed, top and bottom firing drivers - that I have no doubt will have more excursion and still provide me the same characteristics - Inert cabinets with extreme output...

Let see what I can come up with...

$4k for the super DIY? Nah. Remember the LMS 15" drivers from Sound Splinter. No need to pay the exuberant retail prices for 'branded' LMS drivers. You could get 4 of the LMS 15s for less then 2 of the 18s...... and really drive home the point.

-Chris

 

[Warpdrv]

$4k for the super DIY? Nah. Remember the LMS 15" drivers from Sound Splinter. No need to pay the exuberant retail prices for 'branded' LMS drivers. You could get 4 of the LMS 15s for less then 2 of the 18s...... and really drive home the point.

-Chris

Yes that may be true for the normal human, but I have some connections for far better prices then whats listed at Part Express for the 18" LMS's.

About the same price for 2 x 15" as the 18" LMS - less with shipping.

So It will be as stated with Dual Vertically Opposed 18" LMS's, not only will i get greater excursion but more surface area as well

I am thinking about a shaved cornered square like object - semi octagon... Glass top...

 

[annunaki]

haha you can read between the lines no??....according to the posts the only good thing is DIY.

DIY is not the only good thing.

If one wants the ultimate combination of performance and looks at a more down to earth price (assuming the time & skills are available), DIY is the best option.

Second would be a contracted custom build from a competent proven builder. This will be more expensive than straight up DIY but still not as much as some of the real high end/high performance designs out there. The performance envelope of commercial designs will easily be exceeded however.

Commercially built subs always must keep a profit margin in mind regardless of how high end or performance driven the product is. Companies are in business to make money. I can't blame them for that. There are good commercial designs available, but expect to pay for convenience, looks & performance all in one package.

 

[Warpdrv]

DIY is not the only good thing.

If one wants the ultimate combination of performance and looks at a more down to earth price (assuming the time & skills are available), DIY is the best option.

Second would be a contracted custom build from a competent proven builder. This will be more expensive than straight up DIY but still not as much as some of the real high end/high performance designs out there. The performance envelope of commercial designs will easily be exceeded however.

Commercially built subs always must keep a profit margin in mind regardless of how high end or performance driven the product is. Companies are in business to make money. I can't blame them for that. There are good commercial designs available, but expect to pay for convenience, looks & performance all in one package.

plus they also have to keep in mind shipping out said item

 

[mtrycrafts]

I was poking fun at the thread in that I would only need $400 to "decimate the SVS".

Oh, ok, if you insist

 

[clouso]

OK, I can't cr@p on the Paradigm Sub 1 or 2, as I would love to own a couple or 3 myself.... they are gorgeous, I have inspected and touched them myself. They are truly spectacular.... but for $7500 each I can guarantee you I can build an outperforming sub for far less money. Say $4K

In fact - now I am on a mission ----- My next build will incorporate Dual 18" LMS's dual opposed, top and bottom firing drivers - that I have no doubt will have more excursion and still provide me the same characteristics - Inert cabinets with extreme output...

Let see what I can come up with...

did you also get to hear the sub1 or only looked at them?...thx.

 

[Warpdrv]

I only got to see them first hand at CEDIA.

They were not hooked up, just out in the open for people to get an idea of what they were all about... Certainly no question in my mind they will make for a very capable sub, but I'll put money on a pair of 18" LMS's to do better for less money.

I'll quote craigsub from the discussion on this sub at AVS

Hi all ... After spending some time modelling out these ten inch drivers, and using the available information, assuming the amplifier and one's house electrical system could deliver the needed power, here is what the Sub 2 can deliver for max output, one meter outdoors ....

10 Hz - 103 dB
20 Hz - 115 dB
32 Hz - 121 dB
50 Hz - 125 dB
60 Hz - 126 dB

In order for this unit to deliver 112 dB outdoors at one meter at 10 Hz, the drivers would have to move 5.4 inches, peak to peak.

So yes, it appears that the specs are fine at 60 Hz, but that room gain is factored into the 10 Hz spec.

 

[scooterp7]

Pfft. 15" LMS driver for $550 from SoundSplinter (RL-S 15) + Pre-Fab/Pre-Finished cabinet from Parts Express or other sources. Cut your hole for the driver.
-Chris

Would you recommend a sealed or ported cabinet design for this particular driver?

 

[lsiberian]

Would you recommend a sealed or ported cabinet design for this particular driver?

Ported will net you the best response if you have the space for it.

If you don't have the space for it then sealed is the way to go.

 

[smihalik]

Pfft. 15" LMS driver for $550 from SoundSplinter (RL-S 15) + Behringer EP4000 amplifier + Behringer DCX2496 + Pre-Fab/Pre-Finished cabinet from Parts Express or other sources. Cut your hole for the driver. Mount it. Hook stuff up.

For about $1200 you will have a sub that will decimate the SVS. I don't think their driver (which I'm sure is great) is going to match the LMS.

-Chris

Are the Parts Express boxes well made enough to handle all of that power? ~1500watts RMS is nothing to sneeze at. Will they need to be modified? Obviously we don't want any rattling or anything.

My only concern with going this route is the external DCX2496. That thing intimidates me. I'm not sure I would be able to tune it properly.

Can you suggest a less expensive driver/amp combo? $1200 is still a bit steep for me. Maybe something in the $750 ish range?

 

[billy p]

Are the Parts Express boxes well made enough to handle all of that power? ~1500watts RMS is nothing to sneeze at. Will they need to be modified? Obviously we don't want any rattling or anything.

My only concern with going this route is the external DCX2496. That thing intimidates me. I'm not sure I would be able to tune it properly.

Can you suggest a less expensive driver/amp combo? $1200 is still a bit steep for me. Maybe something in the $750 ish range?

Don't think you could build a good sealed unit for that budget. The amp alone could cost that...if not more. Ported is your best bet...but they're not as easy to build like the sealed units. Have you talked to Nathan or are you not going that route?

Just curious, Bill

 

[smihalik]

Don't think you could build a good sealed unit for that budget. The amp alone could cost that...if not more. Ported is your best bet...but they're not as easy to build like the sealed units. Have you talked to Nathan or are you not going that route?

Just curious, Bill

I'm looking at a few different options with Nathan right now, one is a similar design to yours, Bash500 amp, TCS 12" driver, ported 24*24*14. Another is a sealed 12" with dual passive radiators and the same Bash500 amp.

I'm thinking if you can build a 13Ultra killer for $1200, you should be able to build a very good sub for $750-800.

Sure you can spend that budget alone on an amp, but the EP4000 is only about $350. The DIY guys should be able to recommend something good for a bit less, same thing with the driver.