Disappointed in bass response

[ski2xblack]

PSA or Reaction Audio both high value, high performance options worth considering. You would be better off with two or more subs than just one.

 

[shadyJ]

I would be looking at this for 1500, or, if you can raise your budget a tad, these will be in another world of performance compared to your aperion subs.

 

[Auditor55]

Wow!! Are these subs really that bad?? I mean not even good enough for a desktop PC? Really? At $600 a piece and the reputation of Aperion I expected more then just HTiB for crying out loud!! $1200 wasted?

Probably not, it's just the mentality of the people that's responding, where max spl is the ultimate experience to them. Under that paradigm your subs are inadequate them.

 

[Auditor55]

BTW I have tried turning up the volume a bit but unfortunately with certain movies they start to clip. I have played with the signal level on my Marantz and the volume level on the sub as per the manufacturer of the sub. But this does not seem to help. If I increase the signal level on my AV receiver I need to lower the volume on the amp to keep it from clipping. Seems like semantics to me.

You probably have some nulls. Spending money for boom probably not going to help.

 

[Auditor55]

At this point it will depend on what I can get for my subs. They are two years old so I cannot return them. Would $1500 buy me a sub that would work well with my room size?

You would probably get more selling them on Ebay than Craigslist.

 

[crossedover]

Probably not, it's just the mentality of the people that's responding, where max spl is the ultimate experience to them. Under that paradigm your subs are inadequate them.

Well if you think not hitting reference levels is unimportant, so be it. Have you seen the measurements? If you can't hit 100 dB in room below 40hz, that's not acceptable for home theater especially for someone that feels there is an issue.

 

[Ras777]

Well I have certainly learned a few things about subs over the last two days. Here is the next big question. Do I go with two subs like the HSU VTF-15H or one larger sub like the Reaction Audio Echo 18. I would like to keep my cost under $1700.0

 

[crossedover]

Well I have certainly learned a few things about subs over the last two days. Here is the next big question. Do I go with two subs like the HSU VTF-15H or one larger sub like the Reaction Audio Echo 18. I would like to keep my cost under $1700.0

Two would be better for a more even response normally, and easier to setup. I have two but if I had no room issues I'd take 1 over 2 if the performance warranted

 

[TLS Guy]

Probably not, it's just the mentality of the people that's responding, where max spl is the ultimate experience to them. Under that paradigm your subs are inadequate them.

For Heaven's sake add something useful to the debate. You have contributed nothing to this thread except nonsense and shown massive ignorance. In addition you have ticked dumb to a well regarded members sensible post.

If you look at my post, you will see that from the third party measurements the bass output of those Aperion subs is no better than his mains. So carrying on about nulls to explain the OP's problems in nonsense.

One further word of advice. If you don't know what you are talking about keep quiet!

 

[crossedover]

from audioholics review

I measured discrete frequencies vs max SPL at 1 meter with a fixed 10% THD +N and achieved the following results.

Frequency SPL
40 90
50 90
60 115
80 120
100 116

i posted a link Joshs results for the 12 to note that not even the larger version seems proper for HT

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

from audioholics review

I measured discrete frequencies vs max SPL at 1 meter with a fixed 10% THD +N and achieved the following results.

Frequency SPL
40 90
50 90
60 115
80 120
100 116

i posted a link Joshs results for the 12 to note that not even the larger version seems proper for HT

Explanation for a bit less educated:
Sub to be called one - should be able to play at the least 30 hz at same level (or very near it) as it does at 100hz, or even better at 20hz as it's 120hz output

Here's a visual example, on how it should be done, by another 10" sub:

40hz area is where most tower speakers (and some bookshelves) can easy reach and play without noticeable distortion

According the numbers above it's more of Mid-Bass module

As for specific sub suggestions for your budget, I recommend these due to great output and reasonable box size:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2Dual.html

 

[Auditor55]

Well if you think not hitting reference levels is unimportant, so be it. Have you seen the measurements? If you can't hit 100 dB in room below 40hz, that's not acceptable for home theater especially for someone that feels there is an issue.

Not everyone have dedicated rooms where you can crank up to reference levels. I didn't read where the OP mentioned he looking for reference level bass.

 

[Auditor55]

Short explanation for less educated: Sub to be called one - should be able to play at the least 30 hz at same level (or very near it) as 100hz, or even better at 30hz at near it's 120hz output

40hz area is where most tower speakers (and some bookshelves) can easy reach and play without noticeable distortion

According the numbers above it's more of Mid-Bass module

As for specific sub suggestions for your budget, I recommend these due to great output and reasonable box size:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2Dual.html

Sorry, but I don't think thats correct.

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry, but I don't think thats correct.

I can see that you will be one of members wrong more often than by chance!

 

[shadyJ]

Not everyone have dedicated rooms where you can crank up to reference levels. I didn't read where the OP mentioned he looking for reference level bass.

While it is true that reference level bass is more than what most people will use, the OP is clearly dissatisfied with the headroom on his setup. This is not something that simply moving the subs to fix the nulls will correct. The shortcoming is clearly the subwoofers themselves. One solution may be if the OP could strap the subwoofers to his head like a set of headphones with the drivers facing the ears, but even that is just a temporary fix.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I can see that you will be one of members wrong more often than by chance!

Click on member name - > Ignore = Problem solved
Not everyone comes here with desire to get knowledgeable advice and education.

 

[crossedover]

Not everyone have dedicated rooms where you can crank up to reference levels. I didn't read where the OP mentioned he looking for reference level bass.

What does a dedicated room have to do with this thread? RE or Read the first post.

 

[Auditor55]

While it is true that reference level bass is more than what most people will use, the OP is clearly dissatisfied with the headroom on his setup. This is not something that simply moving the subs to fix the nulls will correct. The shortcoming is clearly the subwoofers themselves. One solution may be if the OP could strap the subwoofers to his head like a set of headphones with the drivers facing the ears, but even that is just a temporary fix.

If you really look at the original poster's comments I get the impression that (1) He does not want to have to spend more money to replace his subs, that he's looking for a working solution that won't cost him money, as he laments already spending around $5,000 (2) I didn't read where he exactly said he's looking for more output, greater extension, or a smoother frequency response.

 

[Auditor55]

What does a dedicated room have to do with this thread? RE or Read the first post.

It has a lot to do with it if I'm assuming correctly, that the original poster does not have a dedicated "movie" room.

 

[crossedover]

If you really look at the original poster's comments I get the impression that (1) He does not want to have to spend more money to replace his subs, that he's looking for a working solution that won't cost him money, as he laments already spending around $5,000 (2) I didn't read where he exactly said he's looking for more output, greater extension, or a smoother frequency response.

Some things I took away from the OP

I am trying to maximize the bass in my HT. I have read thru numerous articles and blogs regarding sub placement, acoustics and basics of how they operate. I find myself just getting bogged down with all the technical minusia. He is obliviously working hard to enjoy his HT and get the most out of his purchases I have a considerable amount of money invested and although I am happy with the overall performance I think for the money I spent the bass
response is surely lacking. He would certainly like more than he is getting I have moved my subs to all the possible locations ran the Audyssey and in all honesty I am hard pressed to tell the difference. He has most likely ruled out a null Maybe it's a limitation of my subs or placement. Maybe I am just expecting to much from a home system that cost under $5000. I don't know. My subs are currently opposite corner loaded. My HT room is 23x19 with 8ft ceiling. The room is fully carpeted with soft blind material on the windows and a large L shaped couch. I think the room acoustics are better then what most people have to work with. Although he isnt in a dedicated room, his room dosent seem to be his issue I am running Aperion Grand speakers with two Aperion Bravus II 10D subs. Marantz SR 6007 and Emotiva XPA 3. And a Oppo BD 103 BlueRay Player. Are there any suggestions on how to increase the bass without replacing equipment. He hopes he has missed a step in his setup






The most important thing from the above is: Are there any suggestions on how to increase the bass without replacing equipment? Unfortunately the answer is no. Even if he tweaks every last bit out his subs, he still would be dissatisfied. For the money he spent on them for the performance isnt a high value. We have all made purchases that we expected more performance for the price we paid. He will be fine after an upgrade, which i see no where in the OP that states I will not upgrade


From Gene's review
"The 10D appears to have usable bass extension down to around 30Hz though don't expect much SPL at those frequencies. Below 30Hz the output is dominated by 2nd harmonic distortion. Trying to get this sub to play usable bass below 30Hz at meaningful SPL levels is like expecting Sarah Palin to actually be funny doing stand up comedy or Obama to grow balls and actually make good on his promises. "