Difference: SACD vs SACD Hybrid

[Ryan8886]

I'm just thinking about dabbling in this format a bit. I see plenty of SACD Hybrid stuff available but not so much SACD. What is the difference? Is the Hybrid version the audio equivilant of HD-Lite?

 

[MDS]

The Hybrid version contains both the high resolution SACD (DSD format) tracks as well as a normal 2 channel 'Redbook' CD (PCM) layer. The 2 channel PCM can be played on a regular CD/DVD player. The high resolution tracks can only be played on a player that supports SACD.

 

[supervij]

In other words, if you buy an SACD, it can be played only in an SACD player. If you buy an SACD Hybrid, it can be played in any player, although the high-resolution portion of the disc will only be playable in an SACD player.

cheers,
supervij

 

[Ryan8886]

Ahhhhh....thank you very much!

Supervij,

Do you use your Oppo 981HD for SACD playback? If so, does it handle the job well?

 

[Johnd]

I'm just thinking about dabbling in this format a bit.

If you've got a few bucks, I would highly recommend it. Depending on the genre(s) you enjoy, it's quite a different experience than simple stereo. My experience tells me that sacd's are most prolific in the following order: Classical, Jazz, Rock (and Pop).

 

[supervij]

Hi Ryan. Yup, I use my Oppo for SACDs. And honestly, for my modest means, it sounds great. Certainly better than my old Pioneer 588a, without a doubt.

The Oppo handles SACDs flawlessly in the audio department. The only thing I don't like is extremely minor: I can't get it to switch between time elapsed to anything else. It shows me time elapsed for the currently playing track, but not track time remaining, disc time elapsed, nor disc time remaining. Like I said, it's a very minor quibble. Everything else about SACD playback on the Oppo 981 is stellar.

I'm using the analog outs for hi-res playback, not the HDMI, so I can't comment as to how the HDMI 1.1 handles SACD. But I'm very, very happy with the SACD playback.

cheers,
supervij

 

[Ryan8886]

Hi Ryan. Yup, I use my Oppo for SACDs. And honestly, for my modest means, it sounds great. Certainly better than my old Pioneer 588a, without a doubt.

The Oppo handles SACDs flawlessly in the audio department. The only thing I don't like is extremely minor: I can't get it to switch between time elapsed to anything else. It shows me time elapsed for the currently playing track, but not track time remaining, disc time elapsed, nor disc time remaining. Like I said, it's a very minor quibble. Everything else about SACD playback on the Oppo 981 is stellar.

I'm using the analog outs for hi-res playback, not the HDMI, so I can't comment as to how the HDMI 1.1 handles SACD. But I'm very, very happy with the SACD playback.

cheers,
supervij

Thanks for the input! If I'm not mistaken, the only way to listen to SACD is via analogue. I don't think HDMI supports the format.

 

[MDS]

It's either HDMI 1.2a or 1.3 when SACD (actually the DSD format) became supported. If the player and receiver both support that version of HDMI, then the receiver can do the decoding and you don't have to use the multi-channel analog inputs.

 

[Johnd]

And Denonlink 3 (if you're a Denon fan).

 

[eljr]

Does the Hybrid Multichannel SACD have a two channel SACD layer that is good for two channel SACD setups or does it just play two channel from the redbook layer?

 

[Johnd]

Does the Hybrid Multichannel SACD have a two channel SACD layer that is good for two channel SACD setups or does it just play two channel from the redbook layer?

What would be the advantage to playing 2 channel sacd over 2 channel redbook? No further information is inserted in sacd mastering, the post production music is "simply" separated into separate channels. By definition, sacd hybrid has a sacd layer under a cd layer. Cheers.

 

[eljr]

What would be the advantage to playing 2 channel sacd over 2 channel redbook? No further information is inserted in sacd mastering, the post production music is "simply" separated into separate channels. By definition, sacd hybrid has a sacd layer under a cd layer. Cheers.

So if I understand your post, you are saying that Stereo SACD's are the same as redbook? Then why is the Stereo SACD made?

 

[Johnd]

So if I understand your post, you are saying that Stereo SACD's are the same as redbook? Then why is the Stereo SACD made?

Yeah, eljr, forget last post (coffee). At least the advantage part. No, not the same. Sacd goes to 100Khz (I think, you probably already know). I was too intently focused on my 5 channel sacd's (dsotm), and skimmed right over the stereo sacd's (Miles Davis)...again, coffee. The stereo sacd is obviously made for critical listening (as opposed to mp3's etc.). Happy listening whether it be in 2 channel sacd or 5.1 channel sacd. I'm off for more coffee.

 

[eljr]

Yeah, eljr, forget last post (coffee). At least the advantage part. No, not the same. Sacd goes to 100Khz (I think, you probably already know). I was too intently focused on my 5 channel sacd's (dsotm), and skimmed right over the stereo sacd's (Miles Davis)...again, coffee. The stereo sacd is obviously made for critical listening (as opposed to mp3's etc.). Happy listening whether it be in 2 channel sacd or 5.1 channel sacd. I'm off for more coffee.

Thanks very much for the reply,
eljr

 

[Ryan8886]

It's either HDMI 1.2a or 1.3 when SACD (actually the DSD format) became supported. If the player and receiver both support that version of HDMI, then the receiver can do the decoding and you don't have to use the multi-channel analog inputs.

Oops....that's right...shoulda remembered that! My receiver's a little older and doesn't handle HDMI. I run SPDIF from the player to the receiver for audio now and use an HDMI switcher for video. Will I loose any sound quality switching over to the analogue outputs from digital?

 

[Johnd]

Will I loose any sound quality switching over to the analogue outputs from digital?

No. I'm sure some will care to debate this, but I thoroughly researched the issue a few years ago with my Denon (the first to allow digital transfer of sacd through their proprietary Denon link), and from what I've read, there is no appreciable audible benefit. Invest in a set of 6 decent cables (2 if only stereo) and you're good to go.

 

[Blue Dude]

No. I'm sure some will care to debate this, but I thoroughly researched the issue a few years ago with my Denon (the first to allow digital transfer of sacd through their proprietary Denon link), and from what I've read, there is no appreciable audible benefit. Invest in a set of 6 decent cables (2 if only stereo) and you're good to go.

Well, I'm not 100% convinced that there's no benefit. If you pass a digital signal to your receiver, you get full benefit of the receiver's bass management, room EQ, etc. Many receivers only pass through multi-channel analog inputs without altering the signal (bass management, handling the LFE 10dB boost or lack thereof, etc.). A number of universal players will perform bass management also, but why duplicate the effort once you've got your system dialed in?

If you decide to transfer digitally, proprietary formats aren't required anymore. You can play SA-CD and DVD Audio in full resolution via HDMI 1.1 or better if the player converts to multi-channel PCM first. You need HDMI 1.2a or better to pass raw DSD for SA-CD, though until very recently few players or receivers have supported it. Most of the new HDMI 1.3 capable receivers can do it, and the new Oppo 980H can pass DSD over HDMI.

 

[Johnd]

Well, I'm not 100% convinced that there's no benefit. If you pass a digital signal to your receiver, you get full benefit of the receiver's bass management, room EQ, etc. Many receivers only pass through multi-channel analog inputs without altering the signal (bass management, handling the LFE 10dB boost or lack thereof, etc.). A number of universal players will perform bass management also, but why duplicate the effort once you've got your system dialed in?

If you decide to transfer digitally, proprietary formats aren't required anymore. You can play SA-CD and DVD Audio in full resolution via HDMI 1.1 or better if the player converts to multi-channel PCM first. You need HDMI 1.2a or better to pass raw DSD for SA-CD, though until very recently few players or receivers have supported it. Most of the new HDMI 1.3 capable receivers can do it, and the new Oppo 980H can pass DSD over HDMI.

Thanks Blue Dude: I took the question to be limited to the benefit of the cable...not any processing capabilities (receiver vs. player) or bass management. I don't know how long you've been at audiophilia (I bought my first Kenwood amplifier 28 years ago), but it wasn't that long ago, perhaps just 12 months ago, that members were complaining about purported "bass management"...it was a joke in many players...stilll is. Regardless, thanks for your input.

 

[Blue Dude]

I don't know how long you've been at audiophilia (I bought my first Kenwood amplifier 28 years ago), but it wasn't that long ago, perhaps just 12 months ago, that members were complaining about purported "bass management"...it was a joke in many players...stilll is.

28 yrs ago, I thought that 8-track tapes were da bomb because they were in stereo. Oh that happy day when I discovered that cassettes were in stereo too, and you could rewind 'em! No, this is a fairly recent development for me, and I don't yet suffer from full-blown audiophilia.

Agree about bass management capabilities of players: better than nothing, but far short of a receiver or pre-pro.

 

[Johnd]

28 yrs ago, I thought that 8-track tapes were da bomb because they were in stereo.

Haaa! I was right there with you. I had a Technics player with Dolby...I was convinced that it was so much better than am radio...until I picked up my Sony Elcassette....and so the story goes.