Did I get the right receiver? If not, please help with alternate choice.

D

Dan_photo

Audiophyte
I am new to all this, so please bare with me.

This is scheduled to be installed on Wednesday.

Polk Speakers:
Mxt70 towers
MXT35 Center
PSW108 10" Sub
ES10 rear surround

TV: LG OLED C1 77" (I do not plan on going 8k any time soon)

I was planning on buying the Denon AVR-S960H, but the BestBuy tech said it was overkill for what I could do. He said I could not take advantage of Atmos because of A) my high ceiling (20') and B) because it angles down on one side of the living room, going down to 12". He said Atmos would not work well with my ceilings. So he said I would be wasting money on a 7.2 system and recommended that I buy the Denon AVR-S540BT instead. It's 500 cheaper, so that instantly throws a red flag.

I called Crutchfield, and they recommended either the Denon S960H or the Yamaha RXA2A (or even better the A4A).

They said that my speakers are power hungry and the Polks would be starved with the Denon S540BT.

Now, What say you all about A) Atmos or no and B) receiver selection? One thing I found on YouTube was that Denon seems to be less accurate in its surround sound field as opposed to Yamaha, but I don't know if this is true or not. It was also mentioned that modern receivers have a digitized sound and are less pleasing than older receivers. Is this also correct?

I know that was a lot, but anxiously await your assistance!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
First, welcome. Keep in mind salesmen aren't all that knowledgeable generally; you'd usually be better off starting all the queries here before buying anything to flesh out your needs/choices.

I don't use Atmos as I don't want to mess with my ceilings, but there are workarounds for the odd ceilings to an extent. Whether its worth it to you or not, hard to know. You don't seem to have purchased any of the ceiling speakers yet.

Your speakers will use as much power as they need for your desired playback levels. How loud do you listen and what distance will you be from the speakers? This spl calculator may be a better indicator of what amp power you should be aiming at http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

A doubling of amp power only represents a mere 3dB spl change so it's not a lot of the equation and most avrs are more similar than different in this regard, the significant amp sections tend to come more at the upper end of the range, tho, and I tend to avoid the lowest models as they are the most stripped down in terms of power supply and feature set. If you really want a powerful amp an avr with pre-outs for external amps is a better way to go. I'd pick the avr based on the needed/desired features generally though. The comparison tool here can be a nice way to display them side by side https://www.zkelectronics.com/

I'd not get that sub at all, tho....just not one of Polk's strengths altho their HTS series of subs are decent. The brand of sub need not match the speakers.

Are you paying for them to setup the gear? How much? If it's included you might be paying too much for the gear; it's not hard to setup.
 
D

Dan_photo

Audiophyte
Thanks for the quick reply.

No, I didn't purchase Atmos since they said it was a waste, although I'd like to have it.

I don't plan on listening loud, I just want a quality theater experience when watching movies and such. I would say pretty much a comfortable listening level, although that may be subject to individual taste as what "comfortable" is. Essentially, I want to hear it as the production sound mixer and Foley Team intended it to be heard, within a $2500 budget.

Living room measurements are: 20'w x 18'd x 20'-12'h (decline starts center of room and moves down toward right side)

Listening distance is approx. 12' with the center sofa, and the sofa on the left is 90 degrees to the main sofa, so distance varies depending on who sits where on that sofa. I'm planning for the main sofa though.

I am a TotalTech member, so installation is free, at least it is supposed to be. I am skeptical about what they are gonna try and upsell me on at the time of installation. I would normally do it all myself except they are going to have to do an in-wall wire hide for the rears, and I just didn't want to deal with it.

What do you think of the Klipsch 12" 400w R120SW Reference Series sub as opposed to the one I mentioned? That is another question. I had heard 10" gives me a tighter bass and 12" gives more bass range, but a bit looser. True or no? I would prefer tight and clean over "boom."
 
Last edited:
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Well if you want Atmos then you'll need to buy an avr capable of Atmos and capable of the numbers of channels and configuration you are aiming at.

Helpful if we knew what comfortable means to you in terms of an spl measurement, "comfortable" varies from person to person. Most of the quality is in the speakers and the room they're in. Do you have a system now at all? Can you give us an idea even using a phone app spl meter?

I don't think your speakers are what they're mixing/mastering on in any case but here's an interesting discussion on the as mixed/artist intended thing https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-is-it-possible-to-know-how-the-original-recording-sounds-like-if-we-werent-in-the-studio.34871/#post-1216485 Also keep in mind they may mix/master for more than one kind of playback system (including portable devices). Best is to concentrate on the most accurate gear, particularly speakers.

An avr with pre-outs (for Denon that's at least the X3xxx and up series) would be my choice if I wanted amplification options down the line. Generally even with such an avr, I'd recommend to simply use it with the speakers you have and see if there is any particular shortcomings before adding external amps.

The Klipsch SW-R112/SPL120 would be the better series of Klipsch subs. I generally don't bother with speaker company offerings but rather sub specialists (and these days I simply build my own), but would steer you to sub specialists like Hsu Research, SVS, Rythmik, Monolith, Power Sound Audio, etc. Is your room sealed or open to others? That can make a difference, too. Might check out this article https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/subwoofer-room-size and some of our others on the subject of subs. I prefer multiple subs myself to combat room modes (does have an output advantage but that's secondary).

Not a BB customer, don't know what the TotalTech advantages/costs are at all.....but I've never paid anyone to setup my gear either. Upselling I wouldn't be surprised at, but their capabilities.....meh. Never been impressed by BB.
 
M

maxaudio

Audiophyte
I am new to all this, so please bare with me.

This is scheduled to be installed on Wednesday.

Polk Speakers:
Mxt70 towers
MXT35 Center
PSW108 10" Sub
ES10 rear surround

TV: LG OLED C1 77" (I do not plan on going 8k any time soon)

I was planning on buying the Denon AVR-S960H, but the BestBuy tech said it was overkill for what I could do. He said I could not take advantage of Atmos because of A) my high ceiling (20') and B) because it angles down on one side of the living room, going down to 12". He said Atmos would not work well with my ceilings. So he said I would be wasting money on a 7.2 system and recommended that I buy the Denon AVR-S540BT instead. It's 500 cheaper, so that instantly throws a red flag.

I called Crutchfield, and they recommended either the Denon S960H or the Yamaha RXA2A (or even better the A4A).

They said that my speakers are power hungry and the Polks would be starved with the Denon S540BT.

Now, What say you all about A) Atmos or no and B) receiver selection? One thing I found on YouTube was that Denon seems to be less accurate in its surround sound field as opposed to Yamaha, but I don't know if this is true or not. It was also mentioned that modern receivers have a digitized sound and are less pleasing than older receivers. Is this also correct?

I know that was a lot, but anxiously await your assistance!
Honestly, I would sell the speakers and go for Q Acoustics 30xxi series. Also Yamaha beats Denon - at least in your price range.
 
D

Dan_photo

Audiophyte
I searched for SPL meter and decibel meters came up, I hope that is the same thing. Ran a test and was averaging 63.4 with a max of 74 decibels.

The room is wide open. Open kitchen behind, open dining room to left, open hall to entry on another wall also to left. Upstairs open also to left. I took pics but I'll need to resize them and try again later.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Polk Monitor line are not power hungry by any stretch of the imagination. The higher lines from Polk are.

I have vaulted ceilings and I have Atmos, so your "tech" would seem to be not fully knowledgeable. Very much not surprising at BB. You can do ON wall or upfiring, though it is not quite as ideal as ceiling mounted, but it will for sure work.

Rather than going Atmos, I would actually opt for one of the higher lines of speakers instead. You will get much more bang for your $$ spent.
 
W

Wardog555

Full Audioholic
that's horrible advice from best buy.

you can do atmos with vaulted ceilings. I would absolutely recommend 7 channels minimum those two options are great.

Just ensure you place the speakers in the proper locations and not place them anywhere based on personal reasons or preferences.

I wouldn't touch any of those speakers or subs myself as I find them either too small or perhaps lower quality.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
For the main system, I think many people would say RX-A4A or X3700 and up.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Please keep in mind, if you are just using this for casual movie watching and a first time experience, then you have to consider how much work you really want to put into this setup. There are some very deep enthusiasts here who will talk at a very high level, and that's not bad, but also isn't always helpful.

Going with a less expensive receiver, right now, allows you to see just how into the whole surround sound setup you really are, and how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. A 4K (or 8K) capable AV receiver can be sold within a couple of years for a reasonable price on eBay/Craigslist and then you can get something MUCH better if you want it, and budget allows, or you may find that you just are perfectly happy with what you have.

An important consideration here is that Atmos speakers aren't just stapled to your ceiling. It can be a significant investment in labor to get wiring to the ceiling locations for proper speaker placement. They are not wireless, so getting those wires there, especially if you want them run in-wall, isn't going to be within budget unless you do the work yourself, which may be easier said than done.

I like good receivers. But, even though I absolutely KNOW I will run a full 7.2.4 Atmos setup in my final theater setup, I ended up only getting a 5.1/7.1 capable AVR when I purchased a new model last year. The cost jump to get a full 7.2.4 capable AVR was far more than I want to spend right now, and when my theater space is finally ready and capable of the full Atmos setup, I will dump what I have and spend the extra money necessary on the better receiver.

Keep in mind how many channels, what location, and what quality you expect as well. I will say that a 7.1 channel receiver isn't that expensive and can give you a 5.1.2 Atmos setup without it costing you an arm and a leg, but it really is about what you are hoping to achieve this go around. Receivers really do tend to give you more product as your spend more money. You get more inputs, more connectivity, more power, and more channels to work with. Features improve as does build quality (typically). But, it is very much going to be a reflection of your needs.

I don't think the Best Buy guy was right, or wrong. He had a discussion with you and made a recommendation. It's great that you checked here, and you may want to even get some opinions elsewhere about your setup. But, it does come back to cost, expectations, and desire. But cost is first. You need to find out how much pulling cabling from your AVR location to all those speakers will run. As well, if it is behind drywall, and there is no access, then holes will need to be made, repaired, repainted, and it could easily cost over $1,000 in labor to get those cables in place, which may not be a part of the budget this year. Installing speaker wire and ceiling speakers has almost ZERO difference in labor compared to installing recessed lighting. Wire must be run from a specific location to the ceiling, around and through joists, and the goal is minimal drywall impact, but the installer isn't going to fix any drywall cuts which need to be made.

There are some budget AV receivers which may be worth considering... The Yamaha RX-V6A for example is a bit less, with similar feature set to the Denon.
Or, certified refurb models without 8K support, but full 4K support can match the higher end Denon in many areas, yet be half the price...

If your end game is a full 7.2.4 Atmos setup, then that may be well out of budget at this point.

SPEAKER PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING! With all else said, throwing speakers into your room but not getting them in the right locations is a complete waste of time and money. Buying a receiver without any intention of spending the money to get speakers installed where they MUST go for proper sound is also a waste of money. If the goal is all 'several years out', then I would go with the idea that the receiver may be a temporary fixture in the home that will need to be replaced.

Still, if I wanted a full 7.2.4 setup in the near future as an option, I would be hard pressed not to go to Accessories 4 Less and pick up a Factory Refurb receiver like the Denon 3600 for $1,000. It's a bit more, but has all the bells and whistles needed for a full 5.2.4 setup out of the box, and a 7.2.4 setup if desired in the future. I would have a hard time buying a brand new AVR at current pricing unless I was specifically going 8K and needed those extra bells and whistles.
 
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