Desperately Seeking Subwoofer

[Adam Kelly]

I've gone through the forum and there are several topics and discussions that seem to hit on parts of my current dilemma. I would like to find a single or dual subwoofer solution for a 60% music and 40% HT usage breakdown. For music, I want to find something that has great low end, excellent mid bass and terrific transients. Something that hits clean and fast and will open up my sound stage and blend well with speakers. For HT, I want to find something that has headroom and the frequency response to dig low and hit hard BUT I don't need or want things to necessarily rattle throughout my condo. My budget is $1,500 give or take but obviously would love to spend as little as necessary to get a good product. I would "prefer" to stick with sealed subs. In order to go dual, I would have to stay compact because I don't have the room for large subs on either end of my tv stand. I am hoping to identify best performer AND best performer for the money, which may or may not be the same answer.

What would you recommend:

1) ULS-15 MK2 ($749)

2) SVS SB 3000 ($999)

3) SVS SB 4000 ($1,499)

4) SVS SB 2000 ($600)

5) Rel HT 1208 ($699)

6) Rhythmik F12 ($980)

7) Paradigm X12 ($1,299)

8) Paradigm X15 ($1,499)

My system for reference purposes:

Denon 5308 Receiver
Emotiva XPA 7 Amp
Oppo 203 4K Player
Denon DNP 800 Network Player
B&W 683 s2 Tower Speakers
B&W HTM 61 s2 Center
B&W DS3 Surrounds
B&W ASW 1000 Sub (12 inch ported with 150 watt amp)

PICS PROVIDED FOR SPACE REFERENCE

 

[ryanosaur]

First, nice pad.
Second, please consider that the front wall may not give you the best sound and impact from your subwoofers.
Third, what is the total open room volume of your place? Room volume is much more important than distance-from when it comes to subwoofers.
Lastly, most of the internet direct companies will prove to be more than adequate in all regards in terms of the "fast" and "clean." I would be more concerned with the output and distortion numbers at the frequencies you want to support.

Where are you located, just out of curiosity (as shipping Hsu to Canada can get pretty expensive, for example)?

 

[Adam Kelly]

I am not sure what the total volume is. The living room, dining room and kitchen are an open floor plan. I am in the US so the shipping consideration is good to know!

 

[Truthslayer]

Are you apposed to two different subs ? As in one for specific home theatre duty and one for music listening.

 

[lovinthehd]

Are you apposed to two different subs ? As in one for specific home theatre duty and one for music listening.

Why would anyone need such?

 

[Truthslayer]

Why would anyone need such?

Good question. Answer; subs for home theatre duty are great for just that. However I have yet to hear one designed for home theatre sound spectacular for 2 channel music. Can they sound ok for music, yes but not great. Throw in a, for example, EV ELX200-18 sp or EV ETX 18 sp for music duties and it will take your music to another level. But I would not use one of those for home theatre duty.

 

[Adam Kelly]

If I go dual, I would prefer to use the same sub. This will help achieve the goal of a more balanced and flatter response for both music and movies plus at the moment I don't even know how I would make that work.

 

[lovinthehd]

Good question. Answer; subs for home theatre duty are great for just that. However I have yet to hear one designed for home theatre sound spectacular for 2 channel music. Can they sound ok for music, yes but not great. Throw in a, for example, EV ELX200-18 sp or EV ETX 18 sp for music duties and it will take your music to another level. But I would not use one of those for home theatre duty.

Not my experience...many subs can do both just fine. Just would complicate integration IMO.

 

[Truthslayer]

Those Rhythmik F12 are pretty impressive. And just one would surprise you.
As for going dual subs one for music and one for home theatre. It's a pretty simple and easy integration.
As for complicating, it's really not. Just turn off the one for music when watching movies, or may be surprised and not want to turn it off.
I would have never dreamed of using one of the EV's until a few years back when I heard a set up and decided to try it out for myself. Without trying to go into a long detailed description, it just really makes things come alive more naturally. The slams, punches, etc. Blends in so nicely, unless you experience it for yourself, you don't know what your missing. And I have yet to get that experience with any home audio sub. I can tell you, that after I installed one a few years back, I can think of at least 15 or so people I know who have also installed one if not two. And they all have been in the audio game for a long time.
It's just one of those things most of us would never dream of trying due to our own misconceptions and bias. But once you do, it will change the way think about opening up possibilities.

 

[shadyJ]

If you are interested in accuracy, go duals, because they can do a lot more to smooth out frequency response than any single sub can. There isn't a bad choice on your list, although I don't know how the Rel compares to those other subs. If duels need to be compact and fit in your $1500 budget, I would go with the SB-2000s. If you can stretch that budget a tad and consider them compact, dual Hsu ULS-15 mk2s would give you pretty unbelievable levels of output and overall performance. I know all the other subs are good, but duals of any of the others would blow your budget past $2k, except for the Rel sub, which I would shy away from since there is no available performance data for it whatsoever.

 

[Adam Kelly]

If you are interested in accuracy, go duals, because they can do a lot more to smooth out frequency response than any single sub can. There isn't a bad choice on your list, although I don't know how the Rel compares to those other subs. If duels need to be compact and fit in your $1500 budget, I would go with the SB-2000s. If you can stretch that budget a tad and consider them compact, dual Hsu ULS-15 mk2s would give you pretty unbelievable levels of output and overall performance. I know all the other subs are good, but duals of any of the others would blow your budget past $2k, except for the Rel sub, which I would shy away from since there is no available performance data for it whatsoever.

Thank you SJ for that feedback! I read the review for this model and it seems to perform in the areas that are most important to me. Duals are a stretch in terms of space but I am sure I can figure it out. With a dual set up, would you recommend EQ1 or EQ2 for what I want to achieve? I cross my towers over at 100 hz (well actually I cross all my speakers over at 100 hz). It sounds like EQ2 is more ideal since my space should help with gain / lower frequencies but knowing that I never get close to reference (the loudest I go is probably -20 on the receiver for movies and music although occasionally I dip down into the teens for music. I have a Denon 5308 feeding into an Emotiva XPA 7 running my five speakers. I have the subwoofer trim "currently" in the receiver set at 0 (goes in 5 db increments 0, 5, 10, 15) with channel level set to -10.5 for the subwoofer and the volume at the back of the sub set at 25%.

 

[shadyJ]

Thank you SJ for that feedback! I read the review for this model and it seems to perform in the areas that are most important to me. Duals are a stretch in terms of space but I am sure I can figure it out. With a dual set up, would you recommend EQ1 or EQ2 for what I want to achieve? I cross my towers over at 100 hz (well actually I cross all my speakers over at 100 hz). It sounds like EQ2 is more ideal since my space should help with gain / lower frequencies but knowing that I never get close to reference (the loudest I go is probably -20 on the receiver for movies and music although occasionally I dip down into the teens for music. I have a Denon 5308 feeding into an Emotiva XPA 7 running my five speakers. I have the subwoofer trim "currently" in the receiver set at 0 (goes in 5 db increments 0, 5, 10, 15) with channel level set to -10.5 for the subwoofer and the volume at the back of the sub set at 25%.

I think I would go with EQ1 response in your circumstances, with the Q control set to 0.3. If you were listening at loud levels, I would advise EQ2, but it doesn't sound like you will be. But if you go with this sub, try both and just keep whatever you like better. Since you are running a 100 Hz crossover, it would really benefit you to get duals of whatever sub you choose.

 

[sterling shoote]

Why would anyone need such?

Good question. Answer; subs for home theatre duty are great for just that. However I have yet to hear one designed for home theatre sound spectacular for 2 channel music. Can they sound ok for music, yes but not great. Throw in a, for example, EV ELX200-18 sp or EV ETX 18 sp for music duties and it will take your music to another level. But I would not use one of those for home theatre duty.

Here's one which is ideal for both music and movie sound tracks. JBL B380 .

 

[Adam Kelly]

I think I would go with EQ1 response in your circumstances, with the Q control set to 0.3. If you were listening at loud levels, I would advise EQ2, but it doesn't sound like you will be. But if you go with this sub, try both and just keep whatever you like better. Since you are running a 100 Hz crossover, it would really benefit you to get duals of whatever sub you choose.

Thank you again for the feedback. It is much appreciated!!!!

 

[kini]

Good question. Answer; subs for home theatre duty are great for just that. However I have yet to hear one designed for home theatre sound spectacular for 2 channel music. Can they sound ok for music, yes but not great. Throw in a, for example, EV ELX200-18 sp or EV ETX 18 sp for music duties and it will take your music to another level. But I would not use one of those for home theatre duty.

A good sub is a good sub. It can't distinguish whether it's playing bass from a music track or bass from a movie soundtrack. There's no such thing as a sub that is good for one and not the other when looking at well designed subs.