Denver GTG Speaker Comparison: EMP, SVS, Gallo & Philharmonic

[panteragstk]

I don't think Klipsch speakers suck. I've auditioned the RF82 at a dealer.

Speakers may sound very differently at home vs at stores. So when people say that certain speakers suck, it may just be the wrong setup, placement, or room acoustic.

One thing people do that's just irritating is make blanket judgements of a speaker company based on one set they hear. I don't like Klipsch speakers for music, but my only reference is the synergy line. I'd love to hear some higher end models because I have to think that a company that has been around that long has to make a decent speaker. Based on my only hearing the lower end I can't say that the whole company can't make a decent speaker, that's just dumb.

 

[NewHTbuyer]

One thing people do that's just irritating is make blanket judgements of a speaker company based on one set they hear. I don't like Klipsch speakers for music, but my only reference is the synergy line. I'd love to hear some higher end models because I have to think that a company that has been around that long has to make a decent speaker. Based on my only hearing the lower end I can't say that the whole company can't make a decent speaker, that's just dumb.

That is true. Also, companies change over the years. I would hardly say that because Infinity once made the IRS speakers that it means that their current stuff is good. Owners and designers come and go.

Oh, I don't think that anyone said the Ultras "sucked". I myself posted what I thought their weaknesses are, especially at the high end. I do think, however, that SVS knows just a teeny..teeny....teeny bit about bass reproduction. So, I would be very hesitant, if I was a forum member, to call the bass inaccurate or colored, without having heard the actual speaker.

As far as "live" music being the reference, I agree to some degree. Obviously, the speaker is supposed to reproduce the source accurately. But, most albums are mixed and mastered etc, so who knows if the CD is exactly what the live band sounded like. Even concerts can sound different in different venues. Symphonies sound different at Disney hall compared to the Hollywood Bowl, at least per my parents who are avid concert goers. I have heard a local band here in a small basement room and outside at a county fair, sounded quite different even though it was the same guys, same songs, and same gear(well, I'm not a roadie, so I can't verify it was the same gear, but for the sake of my argument, I am going to assume it was).

 

[PENG]

As far as "live" music being the reference, I agree to some degree. Obviously, the speaker is supposed to reproduce the source accurately. But, most albums are mixed and mastered etc, so who knows if the CD is exactly what the live band sounded like. Even concerts can sound different in different venues. Symphonies sound different at Disney hall compared to the Hollywood Bowl, at least per my parents who are avid concert goers. I have heard a local band here in a small basement room and outside at a county fair, sounded quite different even though it was the same guys, same songs, and same gear(well, I'm not a roadie, so I can't verify it was the same gear, but for the sake of my argument, I am going to assume it was).

I can also agree to your points to some degree. It is a relative thing, live unamplified music could sound different in different venues but if the recording is done well, the violin should basically sound like a violin. With amplified concert, you have to add the variance due to the way the sound is process, on top of the differences due to the different venues, every else being equal.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...Even concerts can sound different in different venues. Symphonies sound different at Disney hall compared to the Hollywood Bowl...

...live unamplified music could sound different in different venues...

Absolutely.

So then which ones constitute the "neutral" sound and which ones constitute the "colored" sound?

We also know that pianos will sound differently from one another; same thing with guitars, violins, cellos, etc.

 

[TLS Guy]

Absolutely.

So then which ones constitute the "neutral" sound and which ones constitute the "colored" sound?

We also know that pianos will sound differently from one another; same thing with guitars, violins, cellos, etc.

It really all boils down to Q, and bass overhang. The real question is can you tell a Steinway from a Fasoli and Bosendorfer. Can you tell different Steinways.

Massed strings have a very definite balance of string and body and the issue is, is it right when reproduced?

Tymps are revealing because the drums sound a different note. On very few loudspeakers can you distinguish which drum is being hit. I was noticing on 800 Ds last week you really can't tell which skin is being hit. On this rig the notes are easily distinguished.

The deep organ pedals are another issue. In the church or hall the bass articulation is precise on a good instrument, bit on very few speakers. These speakers articulate like the real instrument. I suspect your Orions do as well but a probably weak in the wind compared to the real thing.

The thing that really sets a good TL system apart is phenomenal bass articulation and power. They have to be executed correctly. Many are incorrectly damped and are no better than a reflex port, or they are misaligned. I have certainly heard them be very dry and then there is a region where there is massive bass kick in. There have been precious few good commercial examples. This means that hardly anyone has heard a properly designed TL.

 

[KEW]

Massed strings have a very definite balance of string and body and the issue is, is it right when reproduced?

You and Dennis Murphy have this in common!

Dennis listens to an orchestral piece with the full compliment of stringed instruments playing chords to evaluate speakers. This surprised me because I figured he would also need to listen to some percussion and an array of instruments to complete an evaluation. After thinking about it, it made sense since he is listening to the balance of the full spectrum and much of what I think of as articulation is really having proper balance of the upper harmonics.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

You and Dennis Murphy have this in common!

Dennis listens to an orchestral piece with the full compliment of stringed instruments playing chords to evaluate speakers. This surprised me because I figured he would also need to listen to some percussion and an array of instruments to complete an evaluation. After thinking about it, it made sense since he is listening to the balance of the full spectrum and much of what I think of as articulation is really having proper balance of the upper harmonics.

Actually, I listen to about everything. But massed strings are high on the list--right below French Horns. Them horns will really tell you if the crossover is right.

 

[KEW]

I guess it was full orchestra and not just strings. I was just shocked at how much more efficient you are at this.

To avoid going further OT, new thread started on sounds for evaluating speakers:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forum...listen-when-evaluating-speakers-specific.html

 

[frsimms]

I had the Philharmonic 2s in my condo for a couple of weeks. They were the only speaker that I have ever heard that fully tricked me into thinking that the instruments were completely real. That was only on a few classical pieces on the TV’s MC channel. Everything has to be right. The recording, the room and the speaker placement need to all work. That doesn’t mean that the Phils were perfect. That just means that faults of the recording, speaker and room were subtle enough as to not destroy the illusion. The Phils could never make be believe that I was at a rock or blues concert as they don’t sound like the stage amps.

Bob

 

[twylight]

I had the Philharmonic 2s in my condo for a couple of weeks. They were the only speaker that I have ever heard that fully tricked me into thinking that the instruments were completely real. That was only on a few classical pieces on the TV’s MC channel. Everything has to be right. The recording, the room and the speaker placement need to all work. That doesn’t mean that the Phils were perfect. That just means that faults of the recording, speaker and room were subtle enough as to not destroy the illusion. The Phils could never make be believe that I was at a rock or blues concert as they don’t sound like the stage amps.

Bob

This was my experience as well with the phil 2s...I dont agree on the rock concerts - the best recorded ones (especially a few blu rays) sound VERY good...but so many are terrible recordings. Rush, Blue Man Group, Jeff Beck, BDs sounds great

 

[Dennis Murphy]

This was my experience as well with the phil 2s...I dont agree on the rock concerts - the best recorded ones (especially a few blu rays) sound VERY good...but so many are terrible recordings. Rush, Blue Man Group, Jeff Beck, BDs sounds great

HI. Could I interrupt our regularly scheduled programming with a question? I'm trying to put together a sampler CD for the upcoming Capital Audio Fest that will have something on it to appeal to every listening taste. I'm pretty good on classical, small-group jazz, big-band jazz, and female vocal. But I totally suck on classic rock. Let's suppose you're into classic rock and you're walking into my demo room. What do you want to hear? What are a couple of specific cuts that will fully qualify as classic rock but are also well recorded? Thanks!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

HI. Could I interrupt our regularly scheduled programming with a question? I'm trying to put together a sampler CD for the upcoming Capital Audio Fest that will have something on it to appeal to every listening taste. I'm pretty good on classical, small-group jazz, big-band jazz, and female vocal. But I totally suck on classic rock. Let's suppose you're into classic rock and you're walking into my demo room. What do you want to hear? What are a couple of specific cuts that will fully qualify as classic rock but are also well recorded? Thanks!

I think Eagles' Hotel California Live from their Hell Freezes Over album.

 

[twylight]

Dennis I like a few "classic" but pretty mainstream ones:
Rush, studio version, Moving Pictures, Tom Sawyer
The Who, Tommy, Pinball Wizard
Mark Knopfler, Sharglila, Boom Like That
Pink Floyd, The Wall, Another brick in the wall (cd1, track 3)

Most of these have a remaster or hidef version...

Try something from Michael Hedges like off the Oracle albumn - its stunning on the phils

Acoustic guitars and cleaner stuff really stand out

 

[slipperybidness]

HI. Could I interrupt our regularly scheduled programming with a question? I'm trying to put together a sampler CD for the upcoming Capital Audio Fest that will have something on it to appeal to every listening taste. I'm pretty good on classical, small-group jazz, big-band jazz, and female vocal. But I totally suck on classic rock. Let's suppose you're into classic rock and you're walking into my demo room. What do you want to hear? What are a couple of specific cuts that will fully qualify as classic rock but are also well recorded? Thanks!

Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here: the intro guitar is amazing.

A lot of people really like the music and the quality of Dire Straights Brothers in Arms

The Rolling Stones. Or for something cool, good, and different, find a copy of the Rolling Stones w/ Muddy Waters at the Checkerboard Lounge.

 

[Steve81]

What do you want to hear? What are a couple of specific cuts that will fully qualify as classic rock but are also well recorded?

I can't speak to them being wonderfully recorded, but here's a few that I'd enjoy listening to all the same:
The Beatles: Sgt Pepper: Lovely Rita, When I'm 64
The Beach Boys: Pet Sounds: Sloop John B
Queen: A Night At The Opera: Bohemian Rhapsody

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Thanks everyone! That gives me enough to go on. Hope to see some of you at CAF.

 

[macddmac]

Elton John; Funeral for a friend.. A classic and a true spectacle IMHO
Cheers, Mac

 

[mr littlejeans]

Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here: the intro guitar is amazing.

A lot of people really like the music and the quality of Dire Straights Brothers in Arms

I agree with these - my first thought was "Wish You Were Here".

"Money for Nothing" from the Brothers in Arms SACD is a really good demo song and would sound fantastic with the Phils - especially turned up loud. "So Far Away" from that album is also great.

Another good one is "Money" from Dark Side of the Moon - it would show off the RAAL and the bass response.

Not really classic rock but something from the Grateful Dead album American Beauty would probably work too. "Box of Rain" sounds great.

More pop than Classic rock but the Cyndi Lauper version of Time After Time from the Napoleon Dynamite soundtrack sounds really good on the Phils. The version from the soundtrack is different than the version on her studio album and I think is a better version.

Mary Jane's Last Dance from Tom Petty would also be good.

 

[Steve81]

Hope to see some of you at CAF.

I'm planning on making an appearance. I'm super excited to see/hear the Purist Audio Design cables in the Chestnut room. If I have time afterward, I'll stop by the Salk/Philharmonic room.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I'm planning on making an appearance. I'm super excited to see/hear the Purist Audio Design cables in the Chestnut room. If I have time afterward, I'll stop by the Salk/Philharmonic room.

Right. Can't spend too much time listening to those electrons slip and slide through the $1k cables.