Denon8500 vs Anthem1140

B

Bill_C

Audiophyte
I have deep respect for Audioholics and Gene DellaSala. Thank you all for your replies.

After some research I decided to purchase the Anthem 1140. There is a price increase of $300 for the new units, matching the Denon 8500. I've owned Denons since 1990s and they've all run hot, even with additional fans and venting. Some friends have had their Denons simply stop working, so I've become jaded on the brand. I've used Yamaha for years and love the sound and reliability. I've also used Pioneer Elite and found those warmer for music. However, I am intrigued by ARC and enjoy technology...so let's see how it goes.

Expecting delivery in 2-3 weeks and after setup will post the results.
 
B

Bill_C

Audiophyte
P.S....You get a reply from a real person when you write to Anthem. I've grown stale on big corporations.
 
S

Sachb

Full Audioholic
I have deep respect for Audioholics and Gene DellaSala. Thank you all for your replies.

After some research I decided to purchase the Anthem 1140. There is a price increase of $300 for the new units, matching the Denon 8500. I've owned Denons since 1990s and they've all run hot, even with additional fans and venting. Some friends have had their Denons simply stop working, so I've become jaded on the brand. I've used Yamaha for years and love the sound and reliability. I've also used Pioneer Elite and found those warmer for music. However, I am intrigued by ARC and enjoy technology...so let's see how it goes.

Expecting delivery in 2-3 weeks and after setup will post the results.
Anthem might sound a bit better but isn't gonna be any better in reliability than the Denon.
Nothing can beat Yamaha in terms of reliability.
When the home is empty, I crank my Yamaha RX-A1080 receiver all the way up to 70, and still, it doesn't get as hot as my previous Denon.
 
B

Bill_C

Audiophyte
I agree that the Anthem won't be more reliable than the Denon 8500. At this point as I'm nearing retirement I want something for movies and music. I'm not a gamer and won't need 8k. I have an LG OLED 65" for movies and a great sounding system from Goldenear. I haven't read many reviews of the new Denon Audessy Editor App so can't compare to ARC. But I have read lots about ARC, so will give it a try and report back after setup.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm sure they all sound equally fantastic - Denon X8500 vs Anthem vs Yamaha RX-A3080 (or upcoming A6A and A8A).

Difference will be how you subjectively prefer the different EQ and settings.

Other differences will be Heat Production, WiFi Apps and Remotes, Network, Music Streaming.

But at this price class, I think you will be happy with any of these.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Subjectively speaking people can say all they want about their perceived sound quality and they would be just expressing their opinions. The facts are that the Denon AVR-X8500HA's features and specs are far superior than the MRX-1140. In terms of reliability, it is hard to tell but I would trust D+M's simply because of their vast resource including their experience in building AVRs/AVPs for a much longer time than Anthem. So far based on ASR's extensive bench test measurements (not just THD+N and FR), even some mid range Denon AVRs measured better than the Anthem's AVM60 overall.

In my opinion, Anthem's integrated amps, preamps and power amps are fine products but I till don't trust them as much in the much more complicated AVRs/AVPs. Some may argue that AARC is better than Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT but that's again based on subjective reports/hearsay from long before the launch of the MultEQ Editor App.

For those who believe in EQ only the bass range up to the room transition frequency, there is no evidence that AARC could do better on paper, let alone in terms of being audibly better.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I agree that the Anthem won't be more reliable than the Denon 8500. At this point as I'm nearing retirement I want something for movies and music. I'm not a gamer and won't need 8k. I have an LG OLED 65" for movies and a great sounding system from Goldenear. I haven't read many reviews of the new Denon Audessy Editor App so can't compare to ARC. But I have read lots about ARC, so will give it a try and report back after setup.
I can understanding trying out something new.

But in the meantime, is that 65" TV really big enough for you? Have you ever thought about getting a projector with a 120" Screen? :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Subjectively speaking people can say all they want about their perceived sound quality and they would be just expressing their opinions. The facts are that the Denon AVR-X8500HA's features and specs are far superior than the MRX-1140. In terms of reliability, it is hard to tell but I would trust D+M's simply because of their vast resource including their experience in building AVRs/AVPs for a much longer time than Anthem. So far based on ASR's extensive bench test measurements (not just THD+N and FR), even some mid range Denon AVRs measured better than the Anthem's AVM60 overall.

In my opinion, Anthem's integrated amps, preamps and power amps are fine products but I till don't trust them as much in the much more complicated AVRs/AVPs. Some may argue that AARC is better than Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT but that's again based on subjective reports/hearsay from long before the launch of the MultEQ Editor App.

For those who believe in EQ only the bass range up to the room transition frequency, there is no evidence that AARC could do better on paper, let alone in terms of being audibly better.
Definitely subjective opinions. I think he just wants to try something different or new.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Definitely subjective opinions. I think he just wants to try something different or new.
I know, been there done that and I am sure you did too. People just have to try, and may take a long time to change their mind. Chasing electronic devices for sound quality is not the best path... If I knew that earlier, I would have spent $20,000 on speakers for my 2 channel system instead of $13,000 by spending less on amps.:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I know, been there done that and I am sure you did too. People just have to try, and may take a long time to change their mind. Chasing electronic devices for sound quality is not the best path... If I knew that earlier, I would have spent $20,000 on speakers for my 2 channel system instead of $13,000 by spending less on amps.:D
In hindsight, I wouldn't spend $20K on any one thing in any hobby. :D

The older I get, the less money I want to spend. :D

Definitely not chasing anything these days, except for good new movies and TV series. ;)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
In hindsight, I wouldn't spend $20K on any one thing in any hobby. :D

The older I get, the less money I want to spend. :D

Definitely not chasing anything these days, except for good new movies and TV series. ;)
True, in fact same here, but I am talking about money that has already been spent when I was younger. It could have been spent on something that matters more.
 
}Fear_Inoculum{

}Fear_Inoculum{

Full Audioholic
I'll be awaiting your review TS, as I'm currently contemplating buying the same receiver.

The price difference here in Canada between the MRX-1140 and the 8500 is about 1500$ after taxes. Is the Denon 1500$ better?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I'll be awaiting your review TS, as I'm currently contemplating buying the same receiver.

The price difference here in Canada between the MRX-1140 and the 8500 is about 1500$ after taxes. Is the Denon 1500$ better?
I would call both Anthem support and Denon support. See which one you can actually talk to. Then ask them what happens if your AVR fails within the Warranty period. Would you have to pay to ship to the main Anthem/Denon repair center?

In terms of SQ, I don’t think any AVR, AVP, or amp is $1500 better. The difference will be reliability, customer support, compatibility, functionality, WiFi Remote and apps, music streaming, etc. And also your subjective opinion regarding the different Auto Room EQ.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I'll be awaiting your review TS, as I'm currently contemplating buying the same receiver.

The price difference here in Canada between the MRX-1140 and the 8500 is about 1500$ after taxes. Is the Denon 1500$ better?
The Denon's power amp section is much better. The 1140's power amps are weak, depending on your listening habits they may have hard time driving your surround/height speakers if they are 4 ohms rated or 8 ohms nominal with low dips and if they are far away from you mlp.

A safe way to do it right now, is to minimize your investment so you may want to just grab the best deal you can get for an AVR-X4700H or X3700H, or SR6015 if you are okay with just 11.1. I don't believe there will be any audible difference between those two and the 8500, or 1140 in direct mode. Reported night and day differences heard are typically unreliable as we usually don't know much if anything about the individual's setup and/or how they did their comparisons.
 
E

EBN

Audioholic
So far based on ASR's extensive bench test measurements (not just THD+N and FR), even some mid range Denon AVRs measured better than the Anthem's AVM60 overall.
There is MRX-1120 which measured better and is similar to 1140. :) Anyway i still believe ARC Genesis and Dirac Live sounds better when doing the full range or near full range correction, that is what most non audio nerds usually do. The audussey app and creating own curves is quite horrible, it´s not free either. Arcam/Anthem/JBL mics are also lot more accurate than Audussey/Yamahas so there is already more potential there. I do wish Audussey would bring new XT64 to keep up with the big guys, but then again Denon German rep said they have done talks with Dirac for future. It can easily happen if Onkyo / Pioneer takes lot of sales away from D&M. You know what the word on street says about Dirac. ;)

At the end of day those Amirs measurements doesn´t really translate to real world listening. He admitted this himself when product has good enough room eq. It´s sad that people will not buy certain brands cause of he´s measurements and aggressive text in the end. I do pray Yamaha does good as i have soft spot for them and want them to do great!

Note: usage of Dirac EQ in this product should make it subjective sound excellent, erasing the pain of the above graphs. I hope in the future though we get to have both: great room EQ and fundamental measured performance


I hope someday you get Anthem receiver for long home trial so we can hear what you really think, before that it´s only guesses and looking measurements which doesn´t translate in to real life as most owners will use ARC always not pure direct mode.

@Matthew J Poes are you any closer making the room eq comparison happen? I think it would be HUGE for Audioholics if done right. I could almost guarantee it would be one of the most wanted/talked "review" in years and it should be promoted in big way, youtube live of course too.
 
}Fear_Inoculum{

}Fear_Inoculum{

Full Audioholic
The Denon's power amp section is much better. The 1140's power amps are weak, depending on your listening habits they may have hard time driving your surround/height speakers if they are 4 ohms rated or 8 ohms nominal with low dips and if they are far away from you mlp.

A safe way to do it right now, is to minimize your investment so you may want to just grab the best deal you can get for an AVR-X4700H or X3700H, or SR6015 if you are okay with just 11.1. I don't believe there will be any audible difference between those two and the 8500, or 1140 in direct mode. Reported night and day differences heard are typically unreliable as we usually don't know much if anything about the individual's setup and/or how they did their comparisons.
I'm looking for a 13.2 channel set up. My current HT room is a little small for that @ 18.5' L × 10.5' W × 7.5' H, but we're looking at a new house that has a space I can use/turn into a HT room and the dimensions are 25.75' L × 15' W × 9.2' H. So I'm looking to the (possible) future. Even if we don't buy that particular house, I'm still looking to expand the size of my HT room when we do eventually move (or build).
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
There is MRX-1120 which measured better and is similar to 1140. :) Anyway i still believe ARC Genesis and Dirac Live sounds better when doing the full range or near full range correction, that is what most non audio nerds usually do. The audussey app and creating own curves is quite horrible, it´s not free either. Arcam/Anthem/JBL mics are also lot more accurate than Audussey/Yamahas so there is already more potential there. I do wish Audussey would bring new XT64 to keep up with the big guys, but then again Denon German rep said they have done talks with Dirac for future. It can easily happen if Onkyo / Pioneer takes lot of sales away from D&M. You know what the word on street says about Dirac. ;)

At the end of day those Amirs measurements doesn´t really translate to real world listening. He admitted this himself when product has good enough room eq. It´s sad that people will not buy certain brands cause of he´s measurements and aggressive text in the end. I do pray Yamaha does good as i have soft spot for them and want them to do great!

Note: usage of Dirac EQ in this product should make it subjective sound excellent, erasing the pain of the above graphs. I hope in the future though we get to have both: great room EQ and fundamental measured performance


I hope someday you get Anthem receiver for long home trial so we can hear what you really think, before that it´s only guesses and looking measurements which doesn´t translate in to real life as most owners will use ARC always not pure direct mode.

@Matthew J Poes are you any closer making the room eq comparison happen? I think it would be HUGE for Audioholics if done right. I could almost guarantee it would be one of the most wanted/talked "review" in years and it should be promoted in big way, youtube live of course too.
Whether it’s Amir‘s opinion or someone else’s, it is all subjective opinions on ”sound quality”.

Unless someone does a true medical-like double-blind study with randomized subjects who are NOT trained to PREFER a certain sound, it’s just someone’s subjective opinion.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm looking for a 13.2 channel set up. My current HT room is a little small for that @ 18.5' L × 10.5' W × 7.5' H, but we're looking at a new house that has a space I can use/turn into a HT room and the dimensions are 25.75' L × 15' W × 9.2' H. So I'm looking to the (possible) future. Even if we don't buy that particular house, I'm still looking to expand the size of my HT room when we do eventually move (or build).
Okay so that's why your base line is the AVR-X8500H or HA, AV8805, or the Anthem's. If you don't need it right away, may be try to find a great deal for the AV8805, or the X8500H if you don't need 8K/HDMI2.1. At one point, people were able to grab one for under $3,000. It is just much more robust than the light weight with weak power amps MRX-1140. If you intend to use the Anthem as preamp only then I think it is a good option.
 

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